Iguchi's Swing

[joeynach]

Something Stoney was saying today during the broadcast on the radio caught my interest. Stoney was saying Iguchi's form looked pretty bad as he was in between speeds and not adjusting his swing to the pitch. Meaning Iguchi was bailing his left leg like a power hitter trying to the pull the ball and wrapping the bat in a round like motion to make contact with off speed pitches and pitches on the outer half. This is exactly what I remember Iguchi doing when he slumped, when he stopped making an effort in hitting the ball to the right side, and what I saw of him this year in spring training. Obviously this is bad thing. My question or concern is the fact that I think having in the 2 hole kind of forced him to be a better hitter. The day to day situations forced him to stay on the ball longer, see it longer, and try to hit the ball to right field, which for a RH hitter is the best approach. I think having him hit 7th or whatever negatively enforces the fact that it is no longer REQUIRED for hit to try and hit the ball to the right side. So couple that with him being a free agent he would perhaps try and hit for gaudy #'s in HR and RBI production, ala the constant big time pull swings. Seems like a situation set up for failure IMO, anyone else have an opinion on the matter.

Edited April 2, 2007 by joeynach

[fathom]

Two things:

- it shouldn't be a surprise Iguchi struggled today. He's not very good against LHP.

- I hate the notion that Iguchi was better as a #2 hitter. He got in the hole far too often, and that led to his numerous strikeouts. He'll be better down in the order. And if he isn't....don't worry. He'll be gone after this year anyways.

[Steve9347]

I've always said... Iguchi in the two-spot was the one thing that was OK with this offense.

[southsideirish71]

Something Stoney was saying today during the broadcast on the radio caught my interest. Stoney was saying Iguchi's form looked pretty bad as he was in between speeds and not adjusting his swing to the pitch. Meaning Iguchi was bailing his left leg like a power hitter trying to the pull the ball and wrapping the bat in a round like motion to make contact with off speed pitches and pitches on the outer half.

 

This is what our staff tries to do with most of our hitters. Turn them into monolithic pull power monsters. Pulling outside breaking pitches, not working counts. Bad situational hitting. This is why low and away is hard for our team to handle.

[nitetrain8601]

This is what our staff tries to do with most of our hitters. Turn them into monolithic pull power monsters. Pulling outside breaking pitches, not working counts. Bad situational hitting. This is why low and away is hard for our team to handle.

 

Pretty much. It doesn't take Steve Stone to see what me and SSI71 have been saying about Greg Walker. He's a terrible hitting coach.

[RockRaines]

Pretty much. It doesn't take Steve Stone to see what me and SSI71 have been saying about Greg Walker. He's a terrible hitting coach.

Well, people are going to look at the prolific offensive teams he has coached and the fact that situationally we were the best hitting team in baseball with RISP last year.

[southsideirish71]

Well, people are going to look at the prolific offensive teams he has coached and the fact that situationally we were the best hitting team in baseball with RISP last year.

 

Rock were the best offensive team in baseball in the first half, and then like always we stunk donkey balls in the 2nd half. We can look at overall numbers and our great offensive start looked great, but you can look at the run differences between when we lead all of baseball in the first half and sucked in the 2nd half.

 

2006 pre-allstar break 1st 520 runs,

post-allstar break 9th in the AL 348 runs, KC scored 361 BTW

 

2005 pre-allstar break 413 runs

pASB 328 runs

 

Now in 2004 we were an all or nothing team, hence why we supposedly had to ditch Valentin, Lee and the rest. But the balance looks more even in 2004, than it doesn in 2006, and 05.

 

2004 pre 462

post 403 runs

 

According to White Sox hitting coach Greg Walker, taking opposing pitchers deep once again will be a crucial staple for the team's attack in 2007. For that fact playing out, Walker makes absolutely no apologies.

 

Look at our players," said Walker, speaking on a topic that always seems to draw a little fire from the knowledgeable man in charge of the White Sox offense. "You go [Nos.] 3 through 7 [in the lineup], and even [Juan] Uribe to a certain extent, and they are big boys. To be honest, the middle of our order doesn't run real well, so what do you want them to do?

Edited April 2, 2007 by southsideirish71

[BearSox]

I hate Greg Walker...

Edited April 2, 2007 by BearSox

[southsideirish71]

I hate Greg Walker...

 

Hate is a strong word. I dont hate him, I just dont like the approach of the team. Its not just Greg, its an organizational viewpoint that has happened for the last 3 hitting coaches that were pretty much the same person.

 

I would like to see our organization start in the minors with more line drive approach, and teaching the fundamentals of a solid swing. Work on the batters eye, what is a strike, what isnt. Situational hitting. We have too many prospects coming up with the same low and away hole in their swing. We need to start to take advantage of our talent. Stewart is a perfect example. Greg didnt really work with him, only our minor league guys did for the most part. Look at what a ST does with a good hitting coach. He won the backup spot on the Rangers. He looked like a different hitter.

[BearSox]

Hate is a strong word. I dont hate him, I just dont like the approach of the team. Its not just Greg, its an organizational viewpoint that has happened for the last 3 hitting coaches that were pretty much the same person.

 

I would like to see our organization start in the minors with more line drive approach, and teaching the fundamentals of a solid swing. Work on the batters eye, what is a strike, what isnt. Situational hitting. We have too many prospects coming up with the same low and away hole in their swing. We need to start to take advantage of our talent. Stewart is a perfect example. Greg didnt really work with him, only our minor league guys did for the most part. Look at what a ST does with a good hitting coach. He won the backup spot on the Rangers. He looked like a different hitter.

Let me re-phrase that, I think Greg Walker sucks ass as a hitting coach, and shouldn't even be a minor league hitting coach. I agree with you are saying and all, but it starts at the top, IMO. A great MLB hitting coach will help fix any faults that a youngster comes up with, as well as the guys already on the team or brought in via. free agency or trade.

[Gregory Pratt]

Let me re-phrase that, I think Greg Walker sucks ass as a hitting coach, and shouldn't even be a minor league hitting coach. I agree with you are saying and all, but it starts at the top, IMO. A great MLB hitting coach will help fix any faults that a youngster comes up with, as well as the guys already on the team or brought in via. free agency or trade.

 

It'd be nice if we had young kids who could come up and immediately produce.

[StrangeSox]

It'd be nice if we had young kids who could come up and immediately produce.

 

 

Which goes back to bad minor league hitting coaches and maybe bad scouting, too.

[Melissa1334]

Two things:

- it shouldn't be a surprise Iguchi struggled today. He's not very good against LHP.

- I hate the notion that Iguchi was better as a #2 hitter. He got in the hole far too often, and that led to his numerous strikeouts. He'll be better down in the order. And if he isn't....don't worry. He'll be gone after this year anyways.

what makes you say that? we most likely have to resign him because then who else will play second for us?

[witesoxfan]

what makes you say that? we most likely have to resign him because then who else will play second for us?

 

PABLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Melissa1334]

PABLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

ha. he probably could too but hes so valuable coming off the bench. how about someone like ronnie belliard? i liked him a lot when he played with cle.

[witesoxfan]

ha. he probably could too but hes so valuable coming off the bench. how about someone like ronnie belliard? i liked him a lot when he played with cle.

 

lol, no I actually think Pablo would be a horrendous choice. He would be exposed quickly.

 

They'll come up with someone. I hope they retain Iguchi, but there's no guarantee for anything. It's entirely possible the Sox could trade Crede for a pitcher and a 2B prospect who takes over. We'll have to see.

[Melissa1334]

lol, no I actually think Pablo would be a horrendous choice. He would be exposed quickly.

 

They'll come up with someone. I hope they retain Iguchi, but there's no guarantee for anything. It's entirely possible the Sox could trade Crede for a pitcher and a 2B prospect who takes over. We'll have to see.

i wouldnt be against the sox trading crede if were out of it by the break. its pretty obviousy, imo, that fields is the 3b of the future.

[bigruss]

Greg walker should be out, its easy to see from our players' swings that they try to pull to much, may i nominate Chris Harrison for the job? (Former U of Mich. head coach and now owner of Mich. Sports Academy where i train now and teaches extension, going oppo when required, and basically is sweet)

[southsideirish71]

lol, no I actually think Pablo would be a horrendous choice. He would be exposed quickly.

 

They'll come up with someone. I hope they retain Iguchi, but there's no guarantee for anything. It's entirely possible the Sox could trade Crede for a pitcher and a 2B prospect who takes over. We'll have to see.

 

Ding. Gooch can be picked up for a decent price. Pablo is not an everyday major leaguer.

[joeynach]

Guys i understand how this has become a whole convo about Walker which is fine becuase he is mainly in charge of our hitters approach at the plate. But my point was that I didn't really see this swing and approach from Iguchi where he was forced to hit more fundamentally in the 2 hole vs free swining in the 7th hole. Which is why then the blame falls on Ozzie for either not recognizing this as tendancy of one of his players or being stubborn and not making a change when its probably beneficial for the team (and the player). Or Iguchi could just not be the 2nd coming of Jose Valentin which is what he looks like now. Hes gonna hit .230 with 25 hrs.....great.

[Kalapse]

ha. he probably could too but hes so valuable coming off the bench. how about someone like ronnie belliard? i liked him a lot when he played with cle.

Ronnie Belliard is a step away from being out of baseball, by next year you may never hear his name again. Good riddance.

[Y2HH]

If it's not Ozzie and KW's fault, it's Anderson versus Erstad and Pods, and once again that becomes Ozzie's fault. If it's none of the above, it's Walkers fault. If it's not Walkers fault, it'll be Razor Shines fault. Blah blah blah...

 

If you move Iguchi down in the order, and he cannot hit, it's Iguchi's fault, it's not Walker, it's not Ozzie, it's not KW. If you can hit #2, you should be able to hit #7, #8 and #9, too...these are major league ballplayers, not t-ballers. No excuses should be necessary.

 

The CONSTANT whining on this board is getting really old. If it's not one thing it's another thing.

 

You know what I just realized...this board (almost the ENTIRE thing) is represented by Randy Quaid in Major League 2. You're not happy unless your b****ing about how much this team sucks, and if the team happens to do well, you'll just say, "it won't matter...they're just gonna blow it in the playoffs anyway." The characters name in ML2 was Jonny. All of you b****ing in this thread = Jonny.

[Milkman delivers]

If it's not Ozzie and KW's fault, it's Anderson versus Erstad and Pods, and once again that becomes Ozzie's fault. If it's none of the above, it's Walkers fault. If it's not Walkers fault, it'll be Razor Shines fault. Blah blah blah...

 

If you move Iguchi down in the order, and he cannot hit, it's Iguchi's fault, it's not Walker, it's not Ozzie, it's not KW. If you can hit #2, you should be able to hit #7, #8 and #9, too...these are major league ballplayers, not t-ballers. No excuses should be necessary.

 

The CONSTANT whining on this board is getting really old. If it's not one thing it's another thing.

 

You know what I just realized...this board (almost the ENTIRE thing) is represented by Randy Quaid in Major League 2. You're not happy unless your b****ing about how much this team sucks, and if the team happens to do well, you'll just say, "it won't matter...they're just gonna blow it in the playoffs anyway." The characters name in ML2 was Jonny. All of you b****ing in this thread = Jonny.

 

You're right. And leadoff hitters should be able to hit clean-up. And like somebody else was arguing the other day, LF's should be able to pitch and C's should be able to play 1B. I mean, they're professionals! It shouldn't be the manager or coaches' responsibility to put players in a position where they're more likely to succeed.

[StrangeSox]

You're right. And leadoff hitters should be able to hit clean-up. And like somebody else was arguing the other day, LF's should be able to pitch and C's should be able to play 1B. I mean, they're professionals! It shouldn't be the manager or coaches' responsibility to put players in a position where they're more likely to succeed.

 

 

And its just pure coincidence that almost every player in the White Sox organization, from A through the majors, has the same bad approach at the plate and the same holes in their swing. Nothing to do with the coaching staff. We're fools for even thinking about it!

[Y2HH]

You're right. And leadoff hitters should be able to hit clean-up. And like somebody else was arguing the other day, LF's should be able to pitch and C's should be able to play 1B. I mean, they're professionals! It shouldn't be the manager or coaches' responsibility to put players in a position where they're more likely to succeed.

 

I love playing symantecs...the Cubs leadoff hitter could bat cleanup...see what I did there?! Don't put words in my mouth. Batting #2 and Batting #7-9 is NOT in the same league as batting #1 and batting #3-5. He's not in the heart of the order, he's dropped so low in the order there is no added pressure, as a matter of fact, there is LESS pressure...so your arguement holds absolutly NO water.

 

Next time rather than just talking, think first. Milkman failed to deliver that time, Herbert.

Edited April 3, 2007 by Y2HH