Iguchi's Swing

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Apr 2, 2007 -> 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rock were the best offensive team in baseball in the first half, and then like always we stunk donkey balls in the 2nd half. We can look at overall numbers and our great offensive start looked great, but you can look at the run differences between when we lead all of baseball in the first half and sucked in the 2nd half.

 

2006 pre-allstar break 1st 520 runs,

post-allstar break 9th in the AL 348 runs, KC scored 361 BTW

 

2005 pre-allstar break 413 runs

pASB 328 runs

 

Now in 2004 we were an all or nothing team, hence why we supposedly had to ditch Valentin, Lee and the rest. But the balance looks more even in 2004, than it doesn in 2006, and 05.

 

2004 pre 462

post 403 runs

 

According to White Sox hitting coach Greg Walker, taking opposing pitchers deep once again will be a crucial staple for the team's attack in 2007. For that fact playing out, Walker makes absolutely no apologies.

 

Look at our players," said Walker, speaking on a topic that always seems to draw a little fire from the knowledgeable man in charge of the White Sox offense. "You go [Nos.] 3 through 7 [in the lineup], and even [Juan] Uribe to a certain extent, and they are big boys. To be honest, the middle of our order doesn't run real well, so what do you want them to do?

 

Can't you contribute some of this to Jim Thome benig hurt in the second half and when he did hit he was not the same hitter? I mean he was a big part of that. I am not saying how much, but it did make a difference.

[sircaffey]

I love playing symantecs...the Cubs leadoff hitter could bat cleanup...see what I did there?! Don't put words in my mouth. Batting #2 and Batting #7-9 is NOT in the same league as batting #1 and batting #3-5. He's not in the heart of the order, he's dropped so low in the order there is no added pressure, as a matter of fact, there is LESS pressure...so your arguement holds absolutly NO water.

 

Next time rather than just talking, think first. Milkman failed to deliver that time, Herbert.

 

Or there could be more pressure due to all the talk Iguchi has heard about Ozzie and KW expecting more power out of him. While the spot may not warrent added pressure, more pressure can be added simply because of the change, and the expectations that come along with it.

[StrangeSox]

Or there could be more pressure due to all the talk Iguchi has heard about Ozzie and KW expecting more power out of him. While the spot may not warrent added pressure, more pressure can be added simply because of the change, and the expectations that come along with it.

 

Or, as others have said, the extra pressure of batting second forced him to be a smarter hitter. Now that the pressure is off, he may be swinging more freely, but getting worse results. Different people respond in different ways to situations. Its part of the manager's job to place his players into the situations in which they'll respond best.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Y2HH @ Apr 3, 2007 -> 07:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If it's not Ozzie and KW's fault, it's Anderson versus Erstad and Pods, and once again that becomes Ozzie's fault. If it's none of the above, it's Walkers fault. If it's not Walkers fault, it'll be Razor Shines fault. Blah blah blah...

 

If you move Iguchi down in the order, and he cannot hit, it's Iguchi's fault, it's not Walker, it's not Ozzie, it's not KW. If you can hit #2, you should be able to hit #7, #8 and #9, too...these are major league ballplayers, not t-ballers. No excuses should be necessary.

 

The CONSTANT whining on this board is getting really old. If it's not one thing it's another thing.

 

You know what I just realized...this board (almost the ENTIRE thing) is represented by Randy Quaid in Major League 2. You're not happy unless your b****ing about how much this team sucks, and if the team happens to do well, you'll just say, "it won't matter...they're just gonna blow it in the playoffs anyway." The characters name in ML2 was Jonny. All of you b****ing in this thread = Jonny.

 

I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!1

[southsideirish71]

I love playing symantecs...the Cubs leadoff hitter could bat cleanup...see what I did there?! Don't put words in my mouth. Batting #2 and Batting #7-9 is NOT in the same league as batting #1 and batting #3-5. He's not in the heart of the order, he's dropped so low in the order there is no added pressure, as a matter of fact, there is LESS pressure...so your arguement holds absolutly NO water.

 

Next time rather than just talking, think first. Milkman failed to deliver that time, Herbert.

 

I love the argument that its only the players and not the coaches. If that is the case, then why do you have hitting and pitching coaches. Why not just have AJ work with the pitchers, and the hitters police themselves. Good coaches can help maximize talent. We only have to look here at what a good pitching coach can do. Look at Matt Thornton, sure a major leaguer in the sense of the word, but talented and cannot find the strikezone. Coop works with him, and presto chango a miracle has happened. He starts to pound the zone with high 90s heat. I am sure that if Seattle thought that Matt could throw high 90s heat they wouldnt of ditched him for LTP. Coaches help maximize the talent. They have video and review for flaws and bad mechanics. They help minimize bad streaks, and help keep the player on the straight and narrow. Now its just a coincidence that all of our top hitting prospects come to this organization with the same long looping swing. Now its just a conicidence that Stewart is now hitting after being tagged cannot hit, however when he gets to work with a hitting coach in Texas thats considered the Coop of hitting, he changes his stance and starts to make solid contact. A hitting coach or pitching coach doesnt hit for the player, but they help the player utilize the best of their talent. Now if the approach is to hit home runs, we will see what we see, lots of strikeouts, a lot of one game 12 runs the next game hard to scrap a few hit together. We will see when its hard to string hits together at times. Walk by his own quotes, is producing a home run hitting approach. This is not his fault, this has been our strategy for the last 7 years and 3 hitting coaches. My thought is we need to ditch that as a whole, and get back to a more pure hitting approach. With the park factor, home runs will come, you dont need to try and hit them here.

 

Can't you contribute some of this to Jim Thome benig hurt in the second half and when he did hit he was not the same hitter? I mean he was a big part of that. I am not saying how much, but it did make a difference.

 

 

Take a look at AJ's splits and tell me that he was the same hitter.

 

To be realy honest, I could care less if the middle 3 try to launch it too the moon. They are monster power hitters. Its when our number 6 and 7 and 8 hitter are trying to hit home runs. Thats when its madness.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Apr 3, 2007 -> 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love the argument that its only the players and not the coaches. If that is the case, then why do you have hitting and pitching coaches. Why not just have AJ work with the pitchers, and the hitters police themselves. Good coaches can help maximize talent. We only have to look here at what a good pitching coach can do. Look at Matt Thornton, sure a major leaguer in the sense of the word, but talented and cannot find the strikezone. Coop works with him, and presto chango a miracle has happened. He starts to pound the zone with high 90s heat. I am sure that if Seattle thought that Matt could throw high 90s heat they wouldnt of ditched him for LTP. Coaches help maximize the talent. They have video and review for flaws and bad mechanics. They help minimize bad streaks, and help keep the player on the straight and narrow. Now its just a coincidence that all of our top hitting prospects come to this organization with the same long looping swing. Now its just a conicidence that Stewart is now hitting after being tagged cannot hit, however when he gets to work with a hitting coach in Texas thats considered the Coop of hitting, he changes his stance and starts to make solid contact. A hitting coach or pitching coach doesnt hit for the player, but they help the player utilize the best of their talent. Now if the approach is to hit home runs, we will see what we see, lots of strikeouts, a lot of one game 12 runs the next game hard to scrap a few hit together. We will see when its hard to string hits together at times. Walk by his own quotes, is producing a home run hitting approach. This is not his fault, this has been our strategy for the last 7 years and 3 hitting coaches. My thought is we need to ditch that as a whole, and get back to a more pure hitting approach. With the park factor, home runs will come, you dont need to try and hit them here.

 

I have never heard Walker promote a home run hitting approach for ALL of his players or against ALL pitchers or in ALL situations. There are situations for everything. The players should and must know the situation and how to hit in it. I think you are gathering his quotes and using him against him in a way that you see fit. That is your prerogative to do so, but I think it is misleading. A lot or most of the blame and credit should go to the players. Some to the coaches, but not even close to the majority. I would say an 85 player 15 coach split.

 

 

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Apr 3, 2007 -> 10:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Take a look at AJ's splits and tell me that he was the same hitter.

 

To be realy honest, I could care less if the middle 3 try to launch it too the moon. They are monster power hitters. Its when our number 6 and 7 and 8 hitter are trying to hit home runs. Thats when its madness.

 

You blame Walker for this why? He has one approach under Walker in the first half and a totally different approach, under the same hitting coach, and you blame Walker? Why not blame the player that is doing it? This whole argument is really silly to me.

 

Also you give Cooper credit but take away Walker's? Cooper worked with Loaiza for his great year and the following year Loaiza looked like crap. Does Cooper deserve the blame for Loaiza not being the same pitcher as he was the year before? As I said this whole argument is very silly. The coaches deserve very little of the blame and credit. They should be able to place the players in the best situation possible for them to succeed, that is it. The rest of it is on the players.

Edited April 3, 2007 by southsideirish

[Y2HH]

I love the argument that its only the players and not the coaches. If that is the case, then why do you have hitting and pitching coaches. Why not just have AJ work with the pitchers, and the hitters police themselves. Good coaches can help maximize talent. We only have to look here at what a good pitching coach can do. Look at Matt Thornton, sure a major leaguer in the sense of the word, but talented and cannot find the strikezone. Coop works with him, and presto chango a miracle has happened. He starts to pound the zone with high 90s heat. I am sure that if Seattle thought that Matt could throw high 90s heat they wouldnt of ditched him for LTP. Coaches help maximize the talent. They have video and review for flaws and bad mechanics. They help minimize bad streaks, and help keep the player on the straight and narrow. Now its just a coincidence that all of our top hitting prospects come to this organization with the same long looping swing. Now its just a conicidence that Stewart is now hitting after being tagged cannot hit, however when he gets to work with a hitting coach in Texas thats considered the Coop of hitting, he changes his stance and starts to make solid contact. A hitting coach or pitching coach doesnt hit for the player, but they help the player utilize the best of their talent. Now if the approach is to hit home runs, we will see what we see, lots of strikeouts, a lot of one game 12 runs the next game hard to scrap a few hit together. We will see when its hard to string hits together at times. Walk by his own quotes, is producing a home run hitting approach. This is not his fault, this has been our strategy for the last 7 years and 3 hitting coaches. My thought is we need to ditch that as a whole, and get back to a more pure hitting approach. With the park factor, home runs will come, you dont need to try and hit them here.

Take a look at AJ's splits and tell me that he was the same hitter.

 

To be realy honest, I could care less if the middle 3 try to launch it too the moon. They are monster power hitters. Its when our number 6 and 7 and 8 hitter are trying to hit home runs. Thats when its madness.

 

I still think that sometimes, it's not the coaches fault...and the players are simply doing what they should know better than to try.

 

Let's see...if pulling the ball isn't working -- it stands to reason the player should be intelligent enough to change that approach without a coach telling him what he should be/shouldn't be doing. I know if my boss trains me in a way that doesn't work best for ME, although I'll tell him/her I'll try it, I'll simply do it the way that works best for me if I notice his/her method isn't working.

[ScottyDo]

Okay, I know patience is not a virtue here, but Iguchi has played exactly one game this season. How about we let him play at LEAST a week before we decide he's even slumping, and then 3-4 to decide there's an actual problem. His mechanics might not look great, but he's Iguchi, not some rookie scrub.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Y2HH @ Apr 3, 2007 -> 10:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I still think that sometimes, it's not the coaches fault...and the players are simply doing what they should know better than to try.

 

Let's see...if pulling the ball isn't working -- it stands to reason the player should be intelligent enough to change that approach without a coach telling him what he should be/shouldn't be doing. I know if my boss trains me in a way that doesn't work best for ME, although I'll tell him/her I'll try it, I'll simply do it the way that works best for me if I notice his/her method isn't working.

 

Wow, you mean you can actually think for yourself? We can't expect a player to be able to do that. The coach has to tell him how to do everyhing. It is the whole organization's approach! Something is broken and we need to fix it!

 

Honestly, can't it be that these players see this stadium as a launching pad and they just want to pound the ball out of the park any chance they get? Is that a possibility? I don't know, I am just trying to put 2 and 2 together.

 

 

QUOTE(ScottyDo @ Apr 3, 2007 -> 10:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, I know patience is not a virtue here, but Iguchi has played exactly one game this season. How about we let him play at LEAST a week before we decide he's even slumping, and then 3-4 to decide there's an actual problem. His mechanics might not look great, but he's Iguchi, not some rookie scrub.

 

I think it is because he had hit lower in the order last spring with horrendous results, so most see it as a bad thing. It is more than just one game to some here. Kinda silly, I know, but it is what it is.

[Y2HH]

Wow, you mean you can actually think for yourself? We can't expect a player to be able to do that. The coach has to tell him how to do everyhing. It is the whole organization's approach! Something is broken and we need to fix it!

 

Honestly, can't it be that these players see this stadium as a launching pad and they just want to pound the ball out of the park any chance they get? Is that a possibility? I don't know, I am just trying to put 2 and 2 together.

 

I think it is because he had hit lower in the order last spring with horrendous results, so most see it as a bad thing. It is more than just one game to some here. Kinda silly, I know, but it is what it is.

 

Green sarcasm aside, I believe that a lot of people (as told in this entire thread) blame the coaches for the players own shortcomings.

 

Nobody blamed walker in the first half of last year. Just the second half when they were all tired/slumping. Yea...that's Walks fault. This seemingly shortsighted, what have you done for me lately, finger pointing blame game seems weak...and it seems like one of the CONSTANT themes around here as of late. I just wish the lot of them could go back to enjoying the game of baseball instead of finding ways to bash every little flaw they see.

Edited April 3, 2007 by Y2HH

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Y2HH @ Apr 3, 2007 -> 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Green sarcasm aside, I believe that a lot of people (as told in this entire thread) blame the coaches for the players own shortcomings.

 

Nobody blamed walker in the first half of last year. Just the second half when they were all tired/slumping. Yea...that's Walks fault. This seemingly shortsighted, what have you done for me lately, finger pointing blame game seems weak...and it seems like one of the CONSTANT themes around here as of late. I just wish the lot of them could go back to enjoying the game of baseball instead of finding ways to bash every little flaw they see.

 

Of course.That is exactly what I was trying to say.

[Y2HH]

Of course.That is exactly what I was trying to say.

 

Yea, I figured that out after re-reading your previous posts...I tend to become defensive here because whenever someone uses green text in a reply to you, it usually means you're getting bashed and need to go on the defensive.

[joeynach]

Okay, I know patience is not a virtue here, but Iguchi has played exactly one game this season. How about we let him play at LEAST a week before we decide he's even slumping, and then 3-4 to decide there's an actual problem. His mechanics might not look great, but he's Iguchi, not some rookie scrub.

 

He did the same thing in spring training this year batting low in the order and hitting .230, he did the same thing in spring training last year when they experimented with him hitting down in the order. So this should really come as no surprise. I dont expect great results from him hitting down in the order if every time he has done so he has struggled, spring training or not. Hence why Ozzie scrapped the Iguchi hitting 7th plan last year before the season started I dont know why he was back on that bandwagon again.

[ScottyDo]

He did the same thing in spring training this year batting low in the order and hitting .230, he did the same thing in spring training last year when they experimented with him hitting down in the order. So this should really come as no surprise. I dont expect great results from him hitting down in the order if every time he has done so he has struggled, spring training or not. Hence why Ozzie scrapped the Iguchi hitting 7th plan last year before the season started I dont know why he was back on that bandwagon again.

Okay but Iguchi clearly has the offensive talent to perform in the 7-hole, just look at his body of work. Two partial spring trainings and one regular season game aren't enough to determine that he just sucks there. He appears to be an adaptable player, so once he gets used to it I'm sure he'll be more than acceptable.

[Balta1701]

Nobody blamed walker in the first half of last year. Just the second half when they were all tired/slumping. Yea...that's Walks fault. This seemingly shortsighted, what have you done for me lately, finger pointing blame game seems weak...and it seems like one of the CONSTANT themes around here as of late. I just wish the lot of them could go back to enjoying the game of baseball instead of finding ways to bash every little flaw they see.

Well, some of us did blame Mr. Walker for the fact that 2 of our guys seemed unable to learn how to hit for the entire first half last year, even if we were pretty happy with the work he'd done with Mr. Crede.