Todays game

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(LVSoxFan @ Apr 4, 2007 -> 07:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly my point. We have "quiet" leaders. And...

....and that's why our starting pitching sucks? Because we don't have a male cheerleader?

 

Will you ever get over the loss of Rowand?

[southsideirish71]

I agree with those who have said we have seemed in a funk since second half last season, and I'm tired of it. There seems to be no fire, no spunk, no spark. Everybody seems to get really discouraged and then it bleeds all over the team

 

I'm hardly going to give up after the SECOND game, though. Remember, Houston had an absolutely horrendous first half the year they met us in the WS. And as I've said before, I'd rather start crappy and turn it on second half a la the 2005 Indians rather than almost slide out of it like we did in '05 or all second half last year.

 

Do remember this: we've had a different team since 2005. Even in '06 a key clubhouse guy was gone--Rowand--and it's obvious to me that changes things. Thome's a great guy, but doesn't strike me as the jokester/cheerleader that Rowand was. This year we have Erstad and a lineup that seemed in flux since opening day.

 

Maybe they need time to gel--who knows?

 

I can handle the losing, but let's go down swinging, boys. Take some chances. Not wait around for somebody to win it for us, which we seem to have been doing since July '06.

 

Yes, the pitching is troubling.

 

 

This has nothing to do with buddies, hanging out, or friendship crap. This has to do with execution.

 

In 05 we pitched like crazymen. Pounded the strikezone and put the hitters on their heels. We made good pitches on 1-2 and 0-2. And we put the batter away. We made the hitter earn a spot on base, and didnt walk everyone. This was the magical formula. In the playoffs our offense went bizzaro, and hit situationally, hit to all fields and played smart.

 

In 06 we had some guys who probably could of used an MRI, we had a few that just stunk, and a we had a few that didnt pitch to their expectations. Our Offense tore up the first half, hitting to all fields, and putting the line drives into the stands. After the boston series right before the allstar break, we fell apart as an offense, and started to press. Started lifting and pulling again, and waiting around for someone else to hit the big shot.

 

So far in 07, we had contreras throw very much like the injuried contreras of 06. Before his injury he was hitting 97 on the gun at Texas and dominating with 13 strikeout perfromances. After his injury, he would try to do something you would see someone with a bad back do, trying different arm angles and dropping down a lot. Now he says he is healthy, but I see the same arm angle drop, and velocity drop.

 

In 06 Garland took a while for his arm to feel strong. Before his arm got strong, he pitched away from contact, and nibbled getting himself hurt. He is a pitcher that needs to pound in, and get ahead. If he continues to get behnd we are sunk in his spot.

 

Our situational hitting is horrible right now. We are back to bang and pray. We need to get back to being selfless. Smartball is not about some silly bunt, its about getting the runner in. Thats hitting a single up the middle, instead of trying to hit the dan ryan. Its about hitting to the right side to advance the runner. Its about line drive hitting, and not trying to hit everything the Jose Valentin, Carlos Lee situational school way.

 

Erstad has had a nice start, he gets on base, and he makes things happen. So far so good.

 

I am going to Danks first start on Saturday, and hope pounds the zone and attacks the hitters.

[Balta1701]

Exactly my point. We have "quiet" leaders. And...

Well, let's think about this...the last 2 teams that have won the World Series...how have they been built? No matter what people say about Rowand...in 05, there was 1 media darling on the team, and that was Ozzie. One big, all encompassing leader. In 06, how about the Cardinals? Who would you say the leaders on that team were? Carpenter maybe, Isringhausen even though he was hurt, Pujols perhaps, certainly Eckstein. But who were the real big leaders? LaRussa. The Marlins in 03? Pudge Rodriguez and Trader Jack McKeon. The Halos in 02? Mike Scoscia.

 

I don't see a problem with having quiet leaders. An awful lot of the best teams recently have been teams where the leaders were either quiet guys without big egos or a dominant managerial personality. I'd much rather have quiet leaders and one single guy in the manager than the mess of guys they have mashed together in New York where every other week they seem to have someone bashing someone else on the team publically.

[Kalapse]

Wait, since when is Thome quite?

[GreatScott82]

"Thornton inherited 48 runners and allowed 13 to score last year.

 

Just for reference, Scot Shields 32/10

Juan Rincon 29/9

Fernando Rodney 23/10

 

Thornton is pretty good, blame someone else."

 

thanks for the numbers... however he and Garland are to blame for todays loss. You have to remember he went in there in the 8th inning and left the bases loaded . he's lucky Aardsma bailed him out w/ nobody out. I'm not saying Thorton is a bad pitcher by any means.. he's just the one guy who frusterated me the most today.

Edited April 5, 2007 by GreatScott82

[LVSoxFan]

Well, let's think about this...the last 2 teams that have won the World Series...how have they been built? No matter what people say about Rowand...in 05, there was 1 media darling on the team, and that was Ozzie. One big, all encompassing leader. In 06, how about the Cardinals? Who would you say the leaders on that team were? Carpenter maybe, Isringhausen even though he was hurt, Pujols perhaps, certainly Eckstein. But who were the real big leaders? LaRussa. The Marlins in 03? Pudge Rodriguez and Trader Jack McKeon. The Halos in 02? Mike Scoscia.

 

I don't see a problem with having quiet leaders. An awful lot of the best teams recently have been teams where the leaders were either quiet guys without big egos or a dominant managerial personality. I'd much rather have quiet leaders and one single guy in the manager than the mess of guys they have mashed together in New York where every other week they seem to have someone bashing someone else on the team publically.

 

Just pointing out a difference between '05 and now, that's all...

[ShoeLessRob]

Just pointing out a difference between '05 and now, that's all...

 

Pitching?

[bardsroom attendant]

I'm with those saving the lion's share of the blame today to Garland for not holding the original lead, Thornton's failure in the pinches against Grady, JD's general suckitude at the dish, and failure of certain guys in clutch situations (iguchi's ill-fated bunt attempt and the ninth-inning fiasco). And I'm also not about giving too much credence to these first two games. Yeah, you need to get on the board with a W asap, and JC on opening day was pure crap. But we've got to give it some time. That said, it's imperative to start winning games this week and over the weekend. Both from the standpoint of getting some W's and confidence under our belt, but also for the sheer numbers of it. I'm guessing the Twinkies will roll the O's again tonight and we could get buried early if we're not careful. The weather WAS brutal out there, some of the worst I've ever sat through on the south side - and that covers a crapload of games. But the weather was bad for both teams so it's no excuse. The bad news is that it's supposed to be like this the rest of the week, so the fellas better get used to it. Kudos to the fans who sat through that whole game - and there were more than I expected would sit through it.

[WilliamTell]

With today's loss we're going to be 2.5 games out already after Minnesota wins. (They're up 4-0) It's not too much of a big deal, but still, it's not a good way to start.

[CWSGuy406]

The Twins are a good team because of Mauer, Morneau, and a sensational end of the bullpen (and a sensational manager at following fathom's #1 rule).

 

Tony Bautista, Ramon Ortiz and Sidney Ponson all shake their heads in agreement.

[Wanne]

I gottta tell ya. I missed the last 3 batters in the 9th...had a client in (in hindsight should have told him to hold his shorts on)...but I just now saw that friggin catch at the end of the game. GOOOODDAMMMMMN! You've gotta be s***tin' me?!?!?!? So basically...this putz fallin on his ass and catchin the ball basically altered the state of the state of affairs with the Sox this season. A gust of wind out...Michaels doesn't pull it outta his ass...all is good in SoxLand today. After seeing that...I don't feel nearly as bad. Still pissed we lost...but not standing on my roof with a knife at my throat like Willie. Calm down big shooter...."all is well" (in your best Kevin Bacon voice). ok...back to my gin and tonics.

[fathom]

Tony Bautista, Ramon Ortiz and Sidney Ponson all shake their heads in agreement.

 

I don't comprehend. Last year, their fortunes turned around when Gardenhire pulled the plug on Batista and Lohse sooner, rather than later.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I don't comprehend. Last year, their fortunes turned around when Gardenhire pulled the plug on Batista and Lohse sooner, rather than later.

 

Or maybe when Liriano blitzed the entire league? He's not around this year. Neither is Radke, who was also a major reason for their turnaround.

[fathom]

Or maybe when Liriano blitzed the entire league? He's not around this year. Neither is Radke, who was also a major reason for their turnaround.

 

It wasn't just Liriano though. He started playing Punto at 3rd base every day, and he did a great job of keeping Mauer fresh and utilizing Redmond effectively. Neshek, Reyes, Crain, Rincon, and Nathan is a great bullpen though, especially if Reyes puts up a 1.00 ERA again.

[DBAHO]

It wasn't just Liriano though. He started playing Punto at 3rd base every day, and he did a great job of keeping Mauer fresh and utilizing Redmond effectively. Neshek, Reyes, Crain, Rincon, and Nathan is a great bullpen though, especially if Reyes puts up a 1.00 ERA again.

But then you have to ask are the likes of Nick Punto, Jason Tyner etc. going to hit near .300 again?

 

And a lot of Twins fans don't have a high rating of Gardy, and don't like the way he doesn't platoon players and handles certain areas of the pen.

 

Hey sounds like us with Ozzie now doesn't it.

[JohnCangelosi]

I'd take Ortiz over any of our pitchers right now ;-)

[Controlled Chaos]

I gottta tell ya. I missed the last 3 batters in the 9th...had a client in (in hindsight should have told him to hold his shorts on)...but I just now saw that friggin catch at the end of the game. GOOOODDAMMMMMN! You've gotta be s***tin' me?!?!?!? So basically...this putz fallin on his ass and catchin the ball basically altered the state of the state of affairs with the Sox this season. A gust of wind out...Michaels doesn't pull it outta his ass...all is good in SoxLand today. After seeing that...I don't feel nearly as bad. Still pissed we lost...but not standing on my roof with a knife at my throat like Willie. Calm down big shooter...."all is well" (in your best Kevin Bacon voice). ok...back to my gin and tonics.

It really shouldn't have come to that. That might have masked some things, but it wouldn't have prevented this thread, I guarantee you that.