Don Cooper

[fathom]

The only reason I'd advocate a new pitching coach is because some of these starters seem like they could use a new pespective on how they go after hitters. We can't use the tired arm excuse from last year anymore.

[Balta1701]

The only reason I'd advocate a new pitching coach is because some of these starters seem like they could use a new pespective on how they go after hitters. We can't use the tired arm excuse from last year anymore.

How long are that many of these guys going to be hanging around, even if good times return?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

im not saying that i am advocating he gets fired i am just saying it is a real possibility if things continue the way they are right now and if anything else he needs to change his approach and light a fire under these guys a##es. he cant continue to tell me javy pitched well when he goes 6 innings and allows 5 runs like he did much of last year when i heard him talking on the radio. he needs these guys to man up and accept some responsibility for poor performances. and that is an attitude adjustment, something a coach can have an impact on.

[Wanne]

Walker goes WAAAAAY before Coop goes.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Walker goes WAAAAAY before Coop goes.

how does walker go before coop if our offense scores 6 runs a game?

[SoxAce]

Out of any of our coaches that are on the "hot seat" Coop should be last on that list.

 

Check that second to last next to Razor Shines.

[Balta1701]

how does walker go before coop if our offense scores 6 runs a game?

Which one of them has more to work with?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Which one of them has more to work with?

this isnt a question of who has more to work with, it's a matter of results. and if the sox are scoring 6 runs a game while allowing a 5.7 team ERA coop will be in trouble and walker wont

[Balta1701]

this isnt a question of who has more to work with, it's a matter of results. and if the sox are scoring 6 runs a game while allowing a 5.7 team ERA coop will be in trouble and walker wont

If the Sox are scoring 6 runs per game because Jim Thome, Paul Konerko, and Jermaine Dye are unstoppable, like last year...but then the guys we need to create a more balanced attack, i.e. Anderson, Erstad, Uribe, Podsednik, Pierzynski wind up struggling with the bats...that says something.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

If the Sox are scoring 6 runs per game because Jim Thome, Paul Konerko, and Jermaine Dye are unstoppable, like last year...but then the guys we need to create a more balanced attack, i.e. Anderson, Erstad, Uribe, Podsednik, Pierzynski wind up struggling with the bats...that says something.

yes that would be a problem but so far this season anderson is 1-1, erstad is 3-6, uribe is 2-7, pods is 0-4 and pierzynski is 2-7 (8-25 combined) so that hasn't been a problem through the first two losses

 

and you cant tell me coop doesnt have anything to work with.

that starting staff still is fully capable of being an above average staff talent-wise and the bullpen has potentially dominant stuff

[southsideirish71]

yes that would be a problem but so far this season anderson is 1-1, erstad is 3-6, uribe is 2-7, pods is 0-4 and pierzynski is 2-7 (8-25 combined) so that hasn't been a problem through the first two losses

 

Our offense then was tits then in 04 because if you look at our overall numbers we scored a lot of runs, and hit a lot of homers. But then again, we got rid of 3 of our offensive punch because we were sick and tired of scoring 12 runs in one game and then getting 2 hit for the next few. We had a chance to score a lot more runs today, hitting a home run is great and all. But to me hitting the ball for a single to drive in the tying or winning runs is just as important. When we fail to score because we give away outs, or more imporantly strike out.

 

We had 8 ks against a bunch of guys who dont strikeout people.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Our offense then was tits then in 04 because if you look at our overall numbers we scored a lot of runs, and hit a lot of homers. But then again, we got rid of 3 of our offensive punch because we were sick and tired of scoring 12 runs in one game and then getting 2 hit for the next few. We had a chance to score a lot more runs today, hitting a home run is great and all. But to me hitting the ball for a single to drive in the tying or winning runs is just as important. When we fail to score because we give away outs, or more imporantly strike out.

 

We had 8 ks against a bunch of guys who dont strikeout people.

i agree to an extent but any time you score 7 runs you should win 90-95% of those games. how many games do the twins lose when they score 7 runs? just saying

[witesoxfan]

i dont know ask the white sox why they fired tony larussa

 

no, ask Hawk why he did

 

and that doesn't support YOUR argument for firing a good coach. That supports the SOX argument for firing a good coach.

[southsideirish71]

i agree to an extent but any time you score 7 runs you should win 90-95% of those games. how many games do the twins lose when they score 7 runs? just saying

 

But this is the American league and there will be some high scoring games, and some games that are close.

 

The twins you mention, would of put the bat on the ball in the 9th, and made Borowski pitch instead of having 2 strikeouts. The same twins would of probably scored that runner from 2nd, and would of at least have effective outs.

[witesoxfan]

i agree to an extent but any time you score 7 runs you should win 90-95% of those games. how many games do the twins lose when they score 7 runs? just saying

 

If I were the hitting coach of the Yankees, they'd score 900 runs this year. Seriously. And if they had the greatest pitching coach in the history of the universe, it'd be a miracle if their team ERA was under 4.00.

 

Talent means so much more in baseball than coaching, and right now, the White Sox rotation is just flat out not that talented and they've faced a very talented offense that has looked very good.

 

In other words, I don't think you understand what you are arguing.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

If I were the hitting coach of the Yankees, they'd score 900 runs this year. Seriously. And if they had the greatest pitching coach in the history of the universe, it'd be a miracle if their team ERA was under 4.00.

 

Talent means so much more in baseball than coaching, and right now, the White Sox rotation is just flat out not that talented and they've faced a very talented offense that has looked very good.

 

In other words, I don't think you understand what you are arguing.

how can you say they arent talented? how did they go from a consesus top pitching staff pre-2006 season talent-wise to where they arent even talented anymore? i know they lost freddy but you cant tell me thats the difference.

 

they got crappy because both mark buehrle and jose contreras have fallen apart since post-all star break last season, which exactly proves my initial statement

[Baines3]

I'm not going to call for a coach (or manager) to to be fired after losing the first 2 games. Give him a little time before we run him out of town.

[witesoxfan]

how can you say they arent talented? how did they go from a consesus top pitching staff pre-2006 season talent-wise to where they arent even talented anymore? i know they lost freddy but you cant tell me thats the difference.

 

First of all, to answer your question, I don't think there's any doubt this rotation isn't as talented as it was in 2005. If there's a legitamate argument, I want to hear it.

 

 

Beyond that, Garland's always had mediocre talent, just like he's always been a mediocre pitcher. The one exception to that entire rule was 2005 - I wonder what happened that year?

 

Contreras has always had great stuff, but only has put it together from a stretch that started in August of 2005 and ended in June of 2006. Since then, and before then, he's been one of the most inconsistent pitchers in the majors.

 

Buehrle apparently looked good in his last start, but he was horrible last year in the second half, and he hasn't pitched this year. How can you suggest firing Cooper after not having seen Buehrle start in the regular season?

 

Vazquez has always had lights out stuff, and he hasn't pitched yet this year either. How can you fire Cooper?

 

Danks hasn't pitched in the majors - how can you fire Cooper?

 

So basically, I've proven how the two pitching are mediocre, and you still are trying to justify firing Cooper.............how?

[Balta1701]

how can you say they arent talented? how did they go from a consesus top pitching staff pre-2006 season talent-wise to where they arent even talented anymore? i know they lost freddy but you cant tell me thats the difference.

Almost the whole rotation has lost velocity. Jose is down, Garland is down, Buehrle was down a little last year and was never high in the first place, and Vazquez is loaded with potential but hasn't done jack with it in a couple years. There's no one right now on this starting pitching staff who can throw a fastball at 95.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Im telling you we need like a private soxtalk forum for the approved posters. These new guys are such crap.

[knightni]

Im telling you we need like a private soxtalk forum for the approved posters. These new guys are such crap.

Yeah.

 

I guess he just stopped BELIEVING.

 

 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Yeah.

 

I guess he just stopped BELIEVING.

yea im actually quite the optimist generally but its awfully hard to be optomistic when you see whats going on with our pitching, even you have to admit that

 

Im telling you we need like a private soxtalk forum for the approved posters. These new guys are such crap.

and why would you go there?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2000- 4.66 ERA

2001- 4.55 ERA

2002- 4.53 ERA

average ERA of 4.58 pre-coop

 

2003- 4.17 ERA

2004- 4.91 ERA

2005- 3.61 ERA

2006- 4.61 ERA

 

in his first 4 full seasons with the sox cooper has compiled an average ERA of 4.33, which certainly is an improvement over the 3 years prior to his arrival but not nearly as great as alot of people on here seem to think im afraid. good thing for 2005 otherwise he would be right on course with the previous 3 years.

 

twins win 7-2 what else is new

they pick up washed-up ramon ortiz and all of a sudden he is a solid #3? sure don't hear about rick anderson complaining about lack of pitching talent even after losing both radke and liriano...just saying

Edited April 5, 2007 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[BearSox]

I highly doubt Coop gets fired... Greg Walker on the other hand...

[southsideirish71]

2000- 4.66 ERA

2001- 4.55 ERA

2002- 4.53 ERA

average ERA of 4.58 pre-coop

 

2003- 4.17 ERA

2004- 4.91 ERA

2005- 3.61 ERA

2006- 4.61 ERA

 

in his first 4 full seasons with the sox cooper has compiled an average ERA of 4.33, which certainly is an improvement over the 3 years prior to his arrival but not nearly as great as alot of people on hear seem to think im afraid. good thing for 2005 otherwise he would be right on course with the previous 3 years.

 

twins win 7-2 what else is new

they pick up washed-up ramon ortiz and all of a sudden he is a solid #3? sure don't here about rick anderson complaining about lack of pitching talent even after losing both radke and liriano...just saying

 

The twins also won by scoring 7 runs without a homer. Scrappy gap to gap hitting. Watch the final out of the sox game. We have men in scoring position, and Crede tries to lift and pull a pitch on the outter half. He is quoted as saying that with the wind he thought it was out. He was going for a dong, and we needed a single or a double. the minute our hitters figure out how to hit a single when we need it instead of trying to hit a 500 foot shot. We will be okay as a situational team.

 

On our pitching staff, throw strikes. We need to do that. If we throw strike and get ahead we will be fine.