Don Cooper

[Chisoxfn]

Neither of them should be fired. Both are above average coaches at what they do in this league. Coop is probably the second best pitching coach in baseball and Walker would rank among the top 10 hitting coaches in all of baseball (if not higher).

 

I've just came to realize Sox fans b**** and whine more than any other teams fan. And while I personally get tired of the negativity a lot of Sox fans show, I also realize they show that negativity out of love for there team and that love makes Sox fans some of the best in baseball.

 

Heck, I can even tell you almost every team in baseball would love to have Ozzie as there manager or Kenny as the GM. I think a lot of people here should learn to enjoy what we have because even though I rip Ozzie from time to time (not near as badly as some do) we truly have one of the better front office/managerial combo's in sports (so do the Bears and Bulls for that matter).

[BearSox]

The twins also won by scoring 7 runs without a homer. Scrappy gap to gap hitting. Watch the final out of the sox game. We have men in scoring position, and Crede tries to lift and pull a pitch on the outter half. He is quoted as saying that with the wind he thought it was out. He was going for a dong, and we needed a single or a double. the minute our hitters figure out how to hit a single when we need it instead of trying to hit a 500 foot shot. We will be okay as a situational team.

 

On our pitching staff, throw strikes. We need to do that. If we throw strike and get ahead we will be fine.

Oh, I know.

 

It seemed like I was the only one who realized that all Borowski was doing was throwing junk breaking stuff on the other part of the plate. If they would have went with the pitch, they would have drove a ball right into the gap for likely the game winner.

 

The whole offense looked pretty bad today, even though they did score 7.

[StrangeSox]

Oh, I know.

 

It seemed like I was the only one who realized that all Borowski every crap pitcher the Sox faced in the second half of the year and so far this year was doing was throwing junk breaking stuff on the other part of the plate. If they would have went with the pitch, they would have drove a ball right into the gap for likely the game winner.

 

The whole offense looked pretty bad today, even though they did score 7.

 

 

Fixed it for ya.

[Chisoxfn]

The twins also won by scoring 7 runs without a homer. Scrappy gap to gap hitting. Watch the final out of the sox game. We have men in scoring position, and Crede tries to lift and pull a pitch on the outter half. He is quoted as saying that with the wind he thought it was out. He was going for a dong, and we needed a single or a double. the minute our hitters figure out how to hit a single when we need it instead of trying to hit a 500 foot shot. We will be okay as a situational team.

 

On our pitching staff, throw strikes. We need to do that. If we throw strike and get ahead we will be fine.

He smoked the ball. I dont' see any reason why we should complain about that at bat and it took a solid play by Michaels to prevent the Sox from winning that game.

 

Maybe we should notice how much better Crede has became under the tutilage of Walker. Or how Konerko has become such a better hitter or even the strides Uribe has made compared to his days in Colorado. Rowand improved when he was here (he was never amazing, but he improved under Walker). I don't understand the negativity, I've seen improvement in hitters when they come to Chicago and I think Walker deserves a lot of that credit. I can also tell you that Greg is one of the more well respected hitting coaches in baseball.

[BearSox]

Neither of them should be fired. Both are above average coaches at what they do in this league. Coop is probably the second best pitching coach in baseball and Walker would rank among the top 10 hitting coaches in all of baseball (if not higher).

 

I've just came to realize Sox fans b**** and whine more than any other teams fan. And while I personally get tired of the negativity a lot of Sox fans show, I also realize they show that negativity out of love for there team and that love makes Sox fans some of the best in baseball.

 

Heck, I can even tell you almost every team in baseball would love to have Ozzie as there manager or Kenny as the GM. I think a lot of people here should learn to enjoy what we have because even though I rip Ozzie from time to time (not near as badly as some do) we truly have one of the better front office/managerial combo's in sports (so do the Bears and Bulls for that matter).

Just because the offense puts up good stats doesn't mean Greg Walker is the reason. Who else is there to blame for the inability of this offense to hit lefties or be able to go with the pitch. I'll admit, it isn't just Walker, but he is a big part of the problem. look at a team like the Twins. They teach simple hitting. Hit the ball where it is pitched. And don't go for the homerun, but try and make solid contact. That is what it seems like Joe Vavra and the rest of the Twins do. Someone needs to be accountable for this, and I blame Greg Walker. Even when he was down as the Knights hitting coach, he preached home runs. I find it funny how Kenny and Ozzie always say how they try and emmulate the Twins and Angels, but they have complete different coaches who have different philosophies.

 

He smoked the ball. I dont' see any reason why we should complain about that at bat and it took a solid play by Michaels to prevent the Sox from winning that game.

 

Maybe we should notice how much better Crede has became under the tutilage of Walker. Or how Konerko has become such a better hitter or even the strides Uribe has made compared to his days in Colorado. Rowand improved when he was here (he was never amazing, but he improved under Walker). I don't understand the negativity, I've seen improvement in hitters when they come to Chicago and I think Walker deserves a lot of that credit. I can also tell you that Greg is one of the more well respected hitting coaches in baseball.

I don't see how he smoked that ball. He hit it off the end of the bat, and if the wind was blowing like 30 mph out, that wouldn't have come close to the warning track. If he went with the pitch, and drove it into the gap, the White Sox would have won. Same thing with Thome and Dye.

[Chisoxfn]

Just because the offense puts up good stats doesn't mean Greg Walker is the reason. Who else is there to blame for the inability of this offense to hit lefties or be able to go with the pitch. I'll admit, it isn't just Walker, but he is a big part of the problem. look at a team like the Twins. They teach simple hitting. Hit the ball where it is pitched. And don't go for the homerun, but try and make solid contact. That is what it seems like Joe Vavra and the rest of the Twins do. Someone needs to be accountable for this, and I blame Greg Walker. Even when he was down as the Knights hitting coach, he preached home runs. I find it funny how Kenny and Ozzie always say how they try and emmulate the Twins and Angels, but they have complete different coaches who have different philosophies.

Or It could just be the fact that we have some really good lefties in our division. That would negatively effect our guys stats. It could also be the fact that we have a few lefties in key positions in our lineup that are going to naturally struggle against left handed pitching. It should also be noted that we have a righty in Iguchi that is just a terrible hitter against lefties (and he wasn't any better in Japan). That means we have Pods, Erstad, Anderson (whose just a terrible hitter at this stage regardless), Thome, AJP, & Iguchi (with all of those but one in the starting lineup often against lefties) meaning that over half of our lineup can't hit left handed pitching. Luckily Pablo will step in from time to time and he mashes lefties but we clearly are not a team built to destroy left handed pitching (albeit the offense is still capable of getting enough runs against lefties, but the pitching will also have to show up).

 

Bottom line is that the players are to blame for the squad not being able to hit lefties and more specifically I think the strong left handed pitchers in our division are to blame. Lets remember we had teams that hammered left handed pitching when Magglio and Caballo were here.

 

By the way, I'll take the Sox offense over the Twins any day. And should we blame the Twins hitting coach for Ortiz leaving Minny and becoming Big Papi? (No we shouldn't, since Papi was hurt in Minnesota, but he also said he wasn't able to drive the ball in Minnesota because there hitting coach wasn't a fan of that).

 

And let me tell you a little secret, the reason the Sox hit so many homers is because we have a lot of power hitters on this squad (more so than any team not named the Yankees).

[Gregory Pratt]

Michaels botched a routine flyout to the warning track. It wasn't spectacular by any means. Crede should've hit a damn single.

[Chisoxfn]

Michaels botched a routine flyout to the warning track. It wasn't spectacular by any means. Crede should've hit a damn single.

Well I'll regress on the Crede play as I was basing my take on Ed Farmer's play by play while I was at work.

[Gregory Pratt]

Okay. Well, what happened was -- Michaels was backing up and fell. It was actually about three feet in front of the wall, and he caught it while falling backward into the wall and then Sizemore came over patting him as if he'd leapt 20feet into the air and robbed a monster shot. It was poor defense. He saved the play, but it was poor.

[BearSox]

Or It could just be the fact that we have some really good lefties in our division. That would negatively effect our guys stats. It could also be the fact that we have a few lefties in key positions in our lineup that are going to naturally struggle against left handed pitching. It should also be noted that we have a righty in Iguchi that is just a terrible hitter against lefties (and he wasn't any better in Japan). That means we have Pods, Erstad, Anderson (whose just a terrible hitter at this stage regardless), Thome, AJP, & Iguchi (with all of those but one in the starting lineup often against lefties) meaning that over half of our lineup can't hit left handed pitching. Luckily Pablo will step in from time to time and he mashes lefties but we clearly are not a team built to destroy left handed pitching (albeit the offense is still capable of getting enough runs against lefties, but the pitching will also have to show up).

 

Bottom line is that the players are to blame for the squad not being able to hit lefties and more specifically I think the strong left handed pitchers in our division are to blame. Lets remember we had teams that hammered left handed pitching when Magglio and Caballo were here.

 

By the way, I'll take the Sox offense over the Twins any day. And should we blame the Twins hitting coach for Ortiz leaving Minny and becoming Big Papi? (No we shouldn't, since Papi was hurt in Minnesota, but he also said he wasn't able to drive the ball in Minnesota because there hitting coach wasn't a fan of that).

 

And let me tell you a little secret, the reason the Sox hit so many homers is because we have a lot of power hitters on this squad (more so than any team not named the Yankees).

Have you not noticed everyone pulling open trying to hit the bomb? Instead of stepping into the pitch and driving it? And for 4 years since Walker has been the hitting coach, that problem has not been fixed. Yes, the hitters have to take some blame, but who's job is it to recognize this blatant faults and correct them? If you guessed Greg Walker, you guessed correct.

[greg775]

The first post says it all.

Coop was the darling of all coaches a couple years ago.

He hasn't turned into an idiot in 2 years.

It's the pitchers' fault.

Today's game was a joke because of the weather. We needed to find a way to win and even

the series.

We didn't.

This isn't starting out well.

Cleveland already has won the series and is playing with the house's money and a lefty tomorrow.

 

p.s. Thornton giving up a jack in that weather against a lefty???

What's up with that.

Our guys certainly are not producing. Get your head out of your collective asses pitching staff!

[Chisoxfn]

Okay. Well, what happened was -- Michaels was backing up and fell. It was actually about three feet in front of the wall, and he caught it while falling backward into the wall and then Sizemore came over patting him as if he'd leapt 20feet into the air and robbed a monster shot. It was poor defense. He saved the play, but it was poor.

I heard the ump initially called him safe which got me excited at work and than pissed. By the way, I just want to say Chris Singleton is better than Rooney or Farmer (he is real enjoyable to listen to, imo and brings a lot of knowledge of the game to the booth).

[Wedge]

Dumb observation that might be completely wrong: Cooper is very, very good at taking a talented, but slightly flawed pitcher and correcting that flaw. Usually, good results yield. However, I'm not so sure he's good at making continued adjustments or at getting established pitchers to make adjustments as hitters adjust to what they are doing. I wonder if Thornton won't be Exhibit A for this phenomenon.

[Gregory Pratt]

I heard the ump initially called him safe which got me excited at work and than pissed. By the way, I just want to say Chris Singleton is better than Rooney or Farmer (he is real enjoyable to listen to, imo and brings a lot of knowledge of the game to the booth).

 

I don't know about the ump call. I knew it was caught right away.

[southsideirish71]

The first post says it all.

Coop was the darling of all coaches a couple years ago.

He hasn't turned into an idiot in 2 years.

It's the pitchers' fault.

Today's game was a joke because of the weather. We needed to find a way to win and even

the series.

We didn't.

This isn't starting out well.

Cleveland already has won the series and is playing with the house's money and a lefty tomorrow.

 

p.s. Thornton giving up a jack in that weather against a lefty???

What's up with that.

Our guys certainly are not producing. Get your head out of your collective asses pitching staff!

 

Thornton threw a 94 mph high fastball, bad location great job of getting to hat ball as it was high strike. That is a great piece of hitting there. It wasnt down the middle of the plate, it was high and he got around on it.

[fathom]

The call by Farmer on the last play of the game was about as bad as you'll ever hear. Singleton is good, but there's no excitement at all in his voice. When MacDougal had that big strikeout with the bases loaded to end the inning, there was not a shred of excitement in his voice.

[southsideirish71]

I don't know about the ump call. I knew it was caught right away.

 

I thought it was gone due to the wind was blowing out that way. The only thing that scared me is it was one of those one handed swings on the outside corner, like he threw the bat at it and got it up into the wind. When I saw Michaels make the break, I thought it would be over his head.

[Chisoxfn]

Have you not noticed everyone pulling open trying to hit the bomb? Instead of stepping into the pitch and driving it? And for 4 years since Walker has been the hitting coach, that problem has not been fixed. Yes, the hitters have to take some blame, but who's job is it to recognize this blatant faults and correct them? If you guessed Greg Walker, you guessed correct.

Guys are going to guess wrong, they are going to fail. It happens to the best hitters 2 out of every 3 times and you'll see hitters all over baseball do this. Listen to Walker talk, he always says how he tries to get his guys to go opposite field because when you are doing that well it allows you to hone in and drive the ball when the pitcher does come in.

 

And I'll say this:

Konerko is a good opposite field hitter

Jermaine Dye is a good opposite field hitter (best on our team)

Guchi is a good opposite field hitter (although he'll have some days where his swing looks as bad, if not worse than Anderson's)

 

Thome is a pull hitter in general, but he has power to all fields. He is what he is.

 

Joe Crede has became a better opposite fielder each and every season under Walker

Juan Uribe is a unique hitter who gets pull happy but he's been much better about than under Walker than prior hitting coaches (in the Rockies system)

 

Pods is just a bad hitter (but Pods isn't exactly what I'd call pull happy) and AJP did a pretty good job most of last year going opposite field.

 

So the way I see it is our guys have consistently improved under Walker and to me that is the sign of a good hitting coach.

[StrangeSox]

Or It could just be the fact that we have some really good lefties in our division. That would negatively effect our guys stats. It could also be the fact that we have a few lefties in key positions in our lineup that are going to naturally struggle against left handed pitching. It should also be noted that we have a righty in Iguchi that is just a terrible hitter against lefties (and he wasn't any better in Japan). That means we have Pods, Erstad, Anderson (whose just a terrible hitter at this stage regardless), Thome, AJP, & Iguchi (with all of those but one in the starting lineup often against lefties) meaning that over half of our lineup can't hit left handed pitching. Luckily Pablo will step in from time to time and he mashes lefties but we clearly are not a team built to destroy left handed pitching (albeit the offense is still capable of getting enough runs against lefties, but the pitching will also have to show up).

 

Bottom line is that the players are to blame for the squad not being able to hit lefties and more specifically I think the strong left handed pitchers in our division are to blame. Lets remember we had teams that hammered left handed pitching when Magglio and Caballo were here.

 

By the way, I'll take the Sox offense over the Twins any day. And should we blame the Twins hitting coach for Ortiz leaving Minny and becoming Big Papi? (No we shouldn't, since Papi was hurt in Minnesota, but he also said he wasn't able to drive the ball in Minnesota because there hitting coach wasn't a fan of that).

 

And let me tell you a little secret, the reason the Sox hit so many homers is because we have a lot of power hitters on this squad (more so than any team not named the Yankees).

 

What about all the garbage pitchers that mowed the Sox down last year by just going low and away all game?

[Chisoxfn]

What about all the garbage pitchers that mowed the Sox down last year by just going low and away all game?

Garbage pitchers tend to cause more problems for good hitting teams. The reason is you have to completely change your offensive makeup at times for one hitter and there is a theory in baseball that making those type of adjustments can do more long term harm than good so often times a player will try to make minimal adjustments and use his ability to get him through the game.

 

And I also believe that the garbage pitcher theory is a bit over-exagerated because some of the times we got shut down guys just came in and hit there spots and when that happens you typically are going to have a tough night at the plate. But by all means I'm not saying our hitters are going to be perfect every game and I think thats the point, they won't be and people seem to expect them to be perfect (or for there approaches to be perfect every time).

 

I know one thing, our guys have a better approach at the plate than almost any team in baseball (New York is a clear exception as hands down they have the best approach in baseball).

[StrangeSox]

I just don't see it. They are trying to pull and park everything. They suck at situational hitting. That's not representative of a good approach.

[Jack Parkman]

Garbage pitchers tend to cause more problems for good hitting teams. The reason is you have to completely change your offensive makeup at times for one hitter and there is a theory in baseball that making those type of adjustments can do more long term harm than good so often times a player will try to make minimal adjustments and use his ability to get him through the game.

 

And I also believe that the garbage pitcher theory is a bit over-exagerated because some of the times we got shut down guys just came in and hit there spots and when that happens you typically are going to have a tough night at the plate. But by all means I'm not saying our hitters are going to be perfect every game and I think thats the point, they won't be and people seem to expect them to be perfect (or for there approaches to be perfect every time).

 

I know one thing, our guys have a better approach at the plate than almost any team in baseball (New York is a clear exception as hands down they have the best approach in baseball).

I don't think he means garbage pitchers as in junkballers, I think he means garbage pitchers as in pitchers who go in to a game in July with an ERA north of 7 and hold the Sox to 0 runs and 3-5 hits over 8 innings. The Sox have a reputation of making pitchers like Jose Lima(sans 20 win season) and Runelvys Hernandez look like the second coming of Cy Young.

[StrangeSox]

I don't think he means garbage pitchers as in junkballers, I think he means garbage pitchers as in pitchers who go in to a game in July with an ERA north of 7 and hold the Sox to 0 runs and 3-5 hits over 8 innings. The Sox have a reputation of making pitchers like Jose Lima(sans 20 win season) and Runelvys Hernandez look like the second coming of Cy Young.

 

 

That's who specifically came to mind.

[greg775]

Thornton threw a 94 mph high fastball, bad location great job of getting to hat ball as it was high strike. That is a great piece of hitting there. It wasnt down the middle of the plate, it was high and he got around on it.

 

Thanks for the explanation. I didn't see it.

I hope some of our lefty hitters can come up with a similar at bat or two

this season, then.

Our guys are going to have to start producing. In this division you can

bury yourself in a hurry.

[maggsmaggs]

Lets not panic after two games. Things will look better soon, hopefully.