The Sopranos

[southsider2k5]

Bah, to me the ending was akin to turning off your TV in the bottom of the 9th, of a tie game, with the bases loaded, during the pennant race. The end of a show should mean a real ending happens.

[Y2HH]

Similar to Vito being "Fatass in Bakery" when Christopher flipped out on the kid behind the counter then a season later he's a regular character but not the same person.

 

This is merely Soprano fans reaching for the stars trying to explain the cop-out ending of all endings.

 

I take Chase to issue with him trying to make the Sopranos "real". It's not real. It's a television show. And like books, movies and shows in general, they have a beginning/middle/end, because that's how it works...

 

Meh.

[Milkman delivers]

I am David Chase. And you're not.

 

Series finales are tough, but with all the speculation and making people wait two years between seasons, and also having to pay for premium service, I felt Chase owed the fans something definitive.

 

Exactly. I want to be told the story. I don't want to make it up myself. If that were the case, I'd be writing my own episodes.

 

This type of ending always ruins movies for me. I am still pissed off.

[The Ginger Kid]

I did like the movie references in the final scene - the godfather/bathroom allusion, and the Bonnie and Clyde nod with Meadow trying to park the car.

[Y2HH]

I did like the movie references in the final scene - the godfather/bathroom allusion, and the Bonnie and Clyde nod with Meadow trying to park the car.

 

The problem with that is...doesn't that model car actually park itself? WTF with that stupid non ending.

[Steff]

The thoughts from the reporter from Vanity Fair who authored the 5 page article with the cast and Chase 2 months ago...

 

"Made In America"

 

"The final episode was titled "Made In America" because that was the original name of the show when it was pitched to Fox in 1998. I understand people want to look for a deeper meaning or some hidden label within last nights episode, but there's nothing more to it."

 

David Chase titled the last episode, the episode where Tony finally seems to have some peace with his immediate family in the final scene, "Made In America" because it brings the show full circle. The show was based on a mobster whose life at home, with his wife, mother, kids and relationships were all in shambles, while he seemingly had better control of his mob life, despite all the mayhem involved. He finally had that peace, closure with Uncle Jun, Janice, AJ's depression, Meadow's life path, and Carmella, so the show had come full circle.

[retro1983hat]

Bah, to me the ending was akin to turning off your TV in the bottom of the 9th, of a tie game, with the bases loaded, during the pennant race. The end of a show should mean a real ending happens.

 

 

Perfect analogy!

[FlaSoxxJim]

Perfect analogy!

 

I don't think so. Baseball games have well defined end points. After the last out is made, it's game over.

 

Life isn't tidy like that. And in striving to make the Sopranos "real" (which is what made us all fans of the show in the first place), Chase decided he wasn't going to tie it all up nice and neat in the last episode. If he wanted to write tidy television where everything resolves itself at the end, he'd have written for Everybody Loves Raymond or some other disposable product.

 

And really, we're only talking about the lack of a resolution for Tony. Short of the whole family being killed off, we knew there were going to be lots of unfinished character storylines beyond the final episode. So, we're left with the ambiguity as to what becomes of Tony. That just feels appropriate to me. He was maybe the most ambiguous character ever made for television – clinically depressed mob boss, loving family man with a tedious habit of sleeping around and killing people, etc. Tony Soprano built a life for himself that will never resolve itself simply and cleanly. Final resolution will come only when he's dead or locked up to rot in federal prison. Until then (and both of those endings would have been predictable and trite), it's the same anxiety-inducing lifestyle, the same dysfunctional Family and family, whether it happens on screen of off.

[DrunkBomber]

I wouldnt be surprised to see them try to make a movie or at least some type of spinoff series from this.

[Chisoxfn]

The more I think about it, the more I like the ending. For a while I thought Meadow was going to get hit by a car or something when she was having so much trouble parking.

[Y2HH]

It was a cop-out of an ending. Simply put, it was a storyteller that couldn't decide on a real ending, so he left it open ended.

 

It's like reading a book, a solid beginning, a very gripping middle...and the final chapter is blank...

 

If I wanted to write a movie, or finish writing someone elses story, I'd write my own -- and that's not what this was about...it was merely a cowardly way of writing a non-ending to an unresolved story.

 

The Sopranos wasn't real. It wasn't life. It's not supposed to go on...and on...and on...like the song says.

 

Life does that. We don't need our movies too, also.

[KipWellsFan]

David Chase done any media since the last episode?

[KipWellsFan]

Chase interview with Sepinwall

http://blog.nj.com/alltv/2007/06/david_chase_speaks.html

Edited June 12, 2007 by KipWellsFan

[FlaSoxxJim]

Chase interview with Sepinwall

http://blog.nj.com/alltv/2007/06/david_chase_speaks.html

 

 

-Not from Chase, but I feel the need to debunk the e-mail that's making the rounds about all the Holsten's patrons being characters from earlier in the series. The actor playing Member's Only guy had never been on the show before, Tony killed at least, one if not both of his carjackers, and there are about 17 other things wrong with this popular but incorrect theory.

[RibbieRubarb]

A wonderful final episode to a landmark series that NEVER settled for standard TV/Mafia cliches...no matter how much the public demanded of it.

 

David Chase created a living, breathing work of art in a medium that is dominated by predictable fare that pushes "ratings" first and "integrity" second.

 

Ultimately , The Sopranos was just that...the story about a family. And the show ended like it begin with the Soprano family eating and unsure about their fate. Life goes on and this series was never shy about it's focus on that sentiment. Chase was never tidy with with all plot points...because life isn't tidy folks. I know many wanted the story to have a clean ending because it brings closure. But if you wee really expecting that, I think you have been watching a different show since 1999.

 

I expected this ending...one chapter closed and the next to begin away from our eyes.

 

As for the abrupt ending? I thought my cable went out too. But I see it as NOTHING to get mad over. Think about it. If the show ended 10 seconds later with Meadow walking in and sitting down then a fade to black...this would have been better? Does this ten seconds make or break the series?!? No...also that kind of ending would give the audience a false sense of security about the Sopranos, that everything would be all right. But, my friends, that is not the case. I know we have invested years with them and have grown to love this family. We want that sense of security. But Chase knows that is not truthful. That would be giftwrapping the entire series in a lie. I think we expect more from this great show.

 

The abrupt ending was just that. Removing any sense of security you have about them. No symbolic nature to it. Their lives with forever be "looking over the shoulder", "denial" and "depression". This is life the enitre family chose. There is no backing out. Tony, Carm, AJ and Meadow are all now involved in it.

 

The ending made you, the audience, feel anxious, nervous and angry. Just like the Sopranos will feel every day from now on. David Chase just welcomed you into the family...finally.

Edited June 12, 2007 by RibbieRubarb

[Y2HH]

A wonderful final episode to a landmark series that NEVER settled for standard TV/Mafia cliches...no matter how much the public demanded of it.

 

David Chase created a living, breathing work of art in a medium that is dominated by predictable fare that pushes "ratings" first and "integrity" second.

 

Ultimately , The Sopranos was just that...the story about a family. And the show ended like it begin with the Soprano family eating and unsure about their fate. Life goes on and this series was never shy about it's focus on that sentiment. Chase was never tidy with with all plot points...because life isn't tidy folks. I know many wanted the story to have a clean ending because it brings closure. But if you wee really expecting that, I think you have been watching a different show since 1999.

 

I expected this ending...one chapter closed and the next to begin away from our eyes.

 

As for the abrupt ending? I thought my cable went out too. But I see it as NOTHING to get mad over. Think about it. If the show ended 10 seconds later with Meadow walking in and sitting down then a fade to black...this would have been better? Does this ten seconds make or break the series?!? No...also that kind of ending would give the audience a false sense of security about the Sopranos, that everything would be all right. But, my friends, that is not the case. I know we have invested years with them and have grown to love this family. We want that sense of security. But Chase knows that is not truthful. That would be giftwrapping the entire series in a lie. I think we expect more from this great show.

 

The abrupt ending was just that. Removing any sense of security you have about them. No symbolic nature to it. Their lives with forever be "looking over the shoulder", "denial" and "depression". This is life the enitre family chose. There is no backing out. Tony, Carm, AJ and Meadow are all now involved in it.

 

The ending made you, the audience, feel anxious, nervous and angry. Just like the Sopranos will feel every day from now on. David Chase just welcomed you into the family...finally.

 

Oh ok, it's all better now! I've seen the light! As a matter of fact, from now on, I hope every book I read, every movie I see and every song I hear ends abruptly without an actual "ending" so I can feel as if I'm more "part of the story." That combined with a dash of, "because that's how real life is", doesn't make it work, it doesn't make it better, and no, it's not all right by me.

 

This was a 6+ year song without a final verse.

 

This was a movie without an ending.

 

This was a book missing the last few chapters.

 

That's well and good for REAL LIFE, but I already have one of those. You see, I get to deal with the fact my parents will someday die, that I will get old (if lucky enough), and eat dinner with MY family, the family I choose to be a part of through marriage and friendship. The Sopranos were NOT my family, nor did I ask nor want to be "welcomed into it". It was a short story, not meant to carry on forever after, no matter what anyone says. This decision was driven by money. Period.

 

Imagine Romeo and Juliet without it's ending. Yea...it would suck. Sure, it could have been left up to our imaginations, but the definitive ending is what sent it down in history.

 

Here is my issue with David Chase. It's clear this was about ego tripping after the first few seasons booming success. The very fact he finds it "funny" that true fans of the show were bothered by things like the un-resolved Russian storyline show this. It wasn't about making a statement or leaving things unresolved because they were meant to be unresolved...no, instead, it was because he found it funny! Chase has made it clear on a FEW occassions that he didn't finish some storylines because it bothered the fans and he found it funny! WTF is that?!

 

He wasn't making a documentary that goes on after the show ends (such as Global Warming, or whatever other cause you may or may not believe in). This was a FICTIONAL story, and it needed a definitive ending.

 

Instead, what we got was a cop out...which they can continue a few years later in a movie if they so choose. And why?! Because...nothing happened. Yet another case of a modern day writer weasling his way out of having to tell the end -- because there is still potential money to be made after a few years of vacation!

 

M. E. H.

 

I don't read books or watch movies to "come to my own conclusion". This wasn't a choose-your-own-adventure.

 

So any excuses people come up with for how brilliant Chase was...I'm not interested in.

 

Because unlike you, I like when my movies, music and books have an ENDING. Even if I don't always like the ending -- at least there is one.

 

Oh, and as for the Chase had integrity and wasn't after ratings thing...that's a clear load of crap, since Sopranos was never supposed go this many seasons -- it was CLEARLY stretched out to make more money because of TV ratings, (ratings that steadily declined since it's peak season 3 or 4). The storyline was becoming watered down with inconsequential characters and flat out bad/boring writing in the latter seasons, and anyone watching could tell.

Edited June 12, 2007 by Y2HH

[retro1983hat]

My life goes on and on and on.

 

Fictional stories have a beginning, middle and end.

[southsider2k5]

Another interesting theory...

 

http://blog.nj.com/alltv/2007/06/david_chase_speaks.html

 

Posted by RutgersBCS on 06/11/07 at 11:52PM

I read this on the NJ.com Sopranos forum from poster "yanks08." It's a very interesting theory:

 

"Tony falls asleep last week in a barren room. No sheets on bed, no alrms clock, nothing. When he apparently wakes up, there are sheets on bed, a mirror, an alarm clock with music going off. None of that was in the end of last week's show. Tony dreams the whole last episode. A.J getting settled, Phil going down and agent harris cheering for him, Meadow becoming a lawyer and getting married. In the end, he sees himself sitting at the table. He is dreaming of having dinner with his family. Its ends when tony wakes up from his great dream. When A.J. says during the episode, "you are all living in a dream", that is a clue. sheets on bed, A.J's comment, and tony seeing himself at the end are all clues that the show really ended last week. This weeks episode was all a dream."

[Brian]

This decision was driven by money. Period.

 

How so? You don't know a lot about David Chase than.

 

I think the last episode seperated two groups of fans who watched the show. One group who watched for the stories, characters, and to be made to think, and the other group who watched just to see murders, even if they meant nothing.

 

The show was always more art than entertainment. David Chase created an ending that people will be talking about in TV history.

 

I have a feeling some people would of been happier if it turned out like Bob Newhart and the last scene was Tony waking up in a hotel and it was all a dream.

Edited June 12, 2007 by Brian

[Steff]

How so? You don't know a lot about David Chase than.

 

I think the last episode seperated two groups of fans who watched the show. One group who watched for the stories, characters, and to be made to think, and the other group who watched just to see murders, even if they meant nothing.

 

The show was always more art than entertainment. David Chase created an ending that people will be talking about in TV history.

 

I have a feeling some people would of been happier if it turned out like Bob Newhart and the last scene was Tony waking up in a hotel and it was all a dream.

 

Great points Brian. The show was about a man's relationship with his mother and how she effected his life - as Chase stated from day 1. What I am seeing is that those who never understood that hated the ending. It might have been better the fans that were in it for the killing stopped watching when Chase altered the show to focus more on family. The only time I saw more pissy folks is during the Kevin Finerty story line. That was absolutely brilliant yet most "fans" hated it.

[Y2HH]

How so? You don't know a lot about David Chase than.

 

I think the last episode seperated two groups of fans who watched the show. One group who watched for the stories, characters, and to be made to think, and the other group who watched just to see murders, even if they meant nothing.

 

The show was always more art than entertainment. David Chase created an ending that people will be talking about in TV history.

 

I have a feeling some people would of been happier if it turned out like Bob Newhart and the last scene was Tony waking up in a hotel and it was all a dream.

 

How so? Are you seriously asking that? And maybe it's you that doesn't know much about David Chase, or anyone else that likes money in the world. Seriously, I cannot believe you made that statement...it's just so beyond arrogant. Yea...and you're David Chase's best friend, right?! I guarantee Chase likes money...or he wouldn't have kept stretching the show as HBO request he do.

 

How so because Sopranos was meant to be 3 seasons, NOT 6. It was S T R E T C H E D! Why was it stretched? Money. Ratings.

 

Seriously, I know the episodes that CHASE wrote or co-worte have a LOT of good stuff in them, I'm not saying they don't...but don't for a second think it wasn't money driven.

 

Chase never wanted the show to go on this long, neither did a lot of the actors. But...money talks. And BS excuses walk.

Edited June 12, 2007 by Y2HH

[RibbieRubarb]

Oh ok, it's all better now! I've seen the light! As a matter of fact, from now on, I hope every book I read, every movie I see and every song I hear ends abruptly without an actual "ending" so I can feel as if I'm more "part of the story." That combined with a dash of, "because that's how real life is", doesn't make it work, it doesn't make it better, and no, it's not all right by me.

 

This was a 6+ year song without a final verse.

 

This was a movie without an ending.

 

This was a book missing the last few chapters.

 

That's well and good for REAL LIFE, but I already have one of those. You see, I get to deal with the fact my parents will someday die, that I will get old (if lucky enough), and eat dinner with MY family, the family I choose to be a part of through marriage and friendship. The Sopranos were NOT my family, nor did I ask nor want to be "welcomed into it". It was a short story, not meant to carry on forever after, no matter what anyone says. This decision was driven by money. Period.

 

Imagine Romeo and Juliet without it's ending. Yea...it would suck. Sure, it could have been left up to our imaginations, but the definitive ending is what sent it down in history.

 

Here is my issue with David Chase. It's clear this was about ego tripping after the first few seasons booming success. The very fact he finds it "funny" that true fans of the show were bothered by things like the un-resolved Russian storyline show this. It wasn't about making a statement or leaving things unresolved because they were meant to be unresolved...no, instead, it was because he found it funny! Chase has made it clear on a FEW occassions that he didn't finish some storylines because it bothered the fans and he found it funny! WTF is that?!

 

He wasn't making a documentary that goes on after the show ends (such as Global Warming, or whatever other cause you may or may not believe in). This was a FICTIONAL story, and it needed a definitive ending.

 

Instead, what we got was a cop out...which they can continue a few years later in a movie if they so choose. And why?! Because...nothing happened. Yet another case of a modern day writer weasling his way out of having to tell the end -- because there is still potential money to be made after a few years of vacation!

 

M. E. H.

 

I don't read books or watch movies to "come to my own conclusion". This wasn't a choose-your-own-adventure.

 

So any excuses people come up with for how brilliant Chase was...I'm not interested in.

 

Because unlike you, I like when my movies, music and books have an ENDING. Even if I don't always like the ending -- at least there is one.

 

Oh, and as for the Chase had integrity and wasn't after ratings thing...that's a clear load of crap, since Sopranos was never supposed go this many seasons -- it was CLEARLY stretched out to make more money because of TV ratings, (ratings that steadily declined since it's peak season 3 or 4). The storyline was becoming watered down with inconsequential characters and flat out bad/boring writing in the latter seasons, and anyone watching could tell.

 

 

I'm sorry, but I've seen hundreds of movies, read hundreds of books that did not have complete endings and left things abrupt. Maybe Fox can have Jack Bauer kill more people for you and you won't have to think when you watch TV. You were obviously watching the wrong show.

 

So don't read my post if you have no interest in my points. But thanks for calling some of them crap and being sarcastic. You seem to know how to have a mature discussion. I see why this great show frustrated you, now. You couldn't handle it.

 

Oh...By the way, your Romeo and Juliet reference is not valid. Shakespeare wrote for the masses. His language was sheer poetry and beautiful, but his plotlines weren't. They were "soap-opera"-esque in their plotlines and contrivences. They were to be wrapped up neat and tidy because theat was expected then and by the audiences. Bad analogy.

Edited June 12, 2007 by RibbieRubarb

[Brian]

How so? Are you seriously asking that? And maybe it's you that doesn't know much about David Chase, or anyone else that likes money in the world. Seriously, I cannot believe you made that statement...it's just so beyond arrogant. Yea...and you're David Chase's best friend, right?! I guarantee Chase likes money...or he wouldn't have kept stretching the show as HBO request he do.

 

How so because Sopranos was meant to be 3 seasons, NOT 6. It was S T R E T C H E D! Why was it stretched? Money. Ratings.

 

Seriously, I know the episodes that CHASE wrote or co-worte have a LOT of good stuff in them, I'm not saying they don't...but don't for a second think it wasn't money driven.

 

Chase never wanted the show to go on this long, neither did a lot of the actors. But...money talks. And BS excuses walk.

 

Not friends with Chase, but I guess you are since you said it is all about money. You must have spoke to him. I'm going off episodes and Chase interviews.

 

I never heard that about it being just 3 seasons. Than call the Season 3 finale about money. This is the end. He was getting paid no matter what. He will get money because of the A&E replays. He is set.

Edited June 12, 2007 by Brian

[Y2HH]

I'm sorry, but I've seen hundreds of movies, read hundreds of books that did not have complete endings and left things abrupt. Maybe Fox can have Jack Bauer kill more people for you and you won't have to think when you watch TV. You were obviously watching the wrong show.

 

So don't read my post if you have no interest in my points. But thanks for calling some of them crap and being sarcastic. You seem to know how to have a mature discussion. I see why this great show frustrated you, now. You couldn't handle it.

 

Oh...By the way, your Romeo and Juliet reference is not valid. Shakespeare wrote for the masses. His language was sheer poetry and beautiful, but his plotlines weren't. They were "soap-opera"-esque in their plotlines and contrivences. They were to be wrapped up neat and tidy because theat was expected then and by the audiences. Bad analogy.

 

This is equilivant to telling a mac user that PC's can do the same stuff...you'll never quite convince them no matter how true it is...

 

The Sopranos had it's compelling moments...but it wasn't what you and every other die hard is trying to make it, not to me anyway. To you it may be this greeat amazing story, and that's well and good...but the ending wasn't some sort of masterpiece, it was left open ended so if they feel like it, they can someday continue on...

 

And sorry, but the romeo and juliet reference IS valid. Chase wrote for the masses too. Or do you consider yourself special in that lot of MILLIONS upon MILLIONS who watched the Sopranos? It's YOUR point that isn't valid, because the Sopranos was mass marketed to the masses. And because modern day audiences have come to accept garbage non-endings doesn't mean my analogy was bad because people at one time expected things to END for better or worse.

 

So please...carry on my wayward son.

 

And for the record, I watch THREE shows on television.

 

Dexter.

Sopranos.

The Shield.

 

I can honestly say, I've never watched a single episode of 24, so you're refrence to the show doesn't mean much to me, because I don't really understand the reference.

 

...and the ending was simple. People are just reading wayyyy to far into it.

 

Tony Soprano professed his love for the White Sox, and the show ended.

 

Edited June 12, 2007 by Y2HH

[RibbieRubarb]

And sorry, but the romeo and juliet reference IS valid. Chase wrote for the masses too. Or do you consider yourself special in that lot of MILLIONS upon MILLIONS who watched the Sopranos? It's YOUR point that isn't valid, because the Sopranos was mass marketed to the masses. And because modern day audiences have come to accept garbage non-endings doesn't mean my analogy was bad because people at one time expected things to END for better or worse.

 

 

Actually my point is valid. Chase was never asked to write for the masses, Shakespeare was told how to end his shows. Chase was given free reign. The masses followed him. Whether or not you like that style is entirely up to you.

 

My original post was never intended to sway opinion, it was just mine. You took it personally.

 

But I will carry on and never stop believin'