Bush invites Dems to White House, re: Iraq

[NorthSideSox72]

At least with social security he proposed a plan that was new.

 

I would agree that Bush isn't the greatest president we've ever had (obviously) but I'm really tired of people blaming him for anything and everything. This does two things: a) continues to give the federal government more power than it should, real or otherwise, and B) makes the executive a stronger branch.

 

If you want to talk about a lack of work how about you look at the Congress. They were called the 'do-nothing' Congress for a reason. And as much as the Dems started out well, they pretty much stopped working as far as I can tell since. All of these issues should be started in Congress, the body that actually does the legislating. They are the ones that can't come up with a good immigration plan, they are the ones that shot down his SS idea, etc.

 

Bush deserves blame for the Iraq mess, I wholeheartedly agree. But everything else that happens in the country (cough*Katrina*cough) is not his fault.

Those are some excellent points. The executive branch and the federal government have gotten far too strong, and the intense focus on it only worsens that problem. You are also correct that Bush has been pushing an idea for Social Security for pretty much his entire administration, while Congress (both versions) have been reluctant to do anything at all.

 

My question, though, wasn't asked because I blame Bush for everything. That's one of the reasons why I wanted to focus on what he and his administration had done that was good. Katrina wasn't his fault, though the poor response is partially in his lap (Brownie says hi). If the economy was doing more poorly, that wouldn't be his fault any more than he should get much credit for its strengths.

 

The GOP-dominated Congress' of 2002-2006 did very little, which is amazing considering they had a sympathetic President. The current/new Dem Congress accomplished a number of things early on, so that's good, but they have definitely stagnated and started to weaken since. But even those Congresses have gotten some positive things done, with little or no involvement from the President other than a signature.

 

By the way, I just thought of one more positive he has accomplished in the last four years. The nomination and placement of Roberts on the Supreme Court. Now, I don't agree with some of Roberts' positions, but that said, he is without question an eminently qualified judge, with a very strong record of being reliable and consistent in his approach and views. He was the right choice, and he made it through the process. Now Alito, who is an underqualified political windsock, is another story. But I have a lot of respect for Stephens. So I'll chalk up one more for Dubya.

[EvilMonkey]

That would be right here...

No, I am saying that you were misinterpreting his statement as an unwillingness to negotiate. I said it was a statement of his opening position, so he has room to move, if he chooses to. It in no way says that I endorse the 'If you disagree with me, you're wrong' way of thinking you describe.

[kapkomet]

Those are some excellent points. The executive branch and the federal government have gotten far too strong, and the intense focus on it only worsens that problem. You are also correct that Bush has been pushing an idea for Social Security for pretty much his entire administration, while Congress (both versions) have been reluctant to do anything at all.

Exactly.

 

The problem with our entire government is it is all about "acting" and "political correctness", and not about governing anymore. How much air time do I get? How much can I make the "other side" irrelevant? Etc. Etc. Etc.

 

It's disgusting, and it's exactly why NOTHING gets done on any level anymore.

[Texsox]

Exactly.

 

The problem with our entire government is it is all about "acting" and "political correctness", and not about governing anymore. How much air time do I get? How much can I make the "other side" irrelevant? Etc. Etc. Etc.

 

It's disgusting, and it's exactly why NOTHING gets done on any level anymore.

 

And how can I discredit the media when they print something negative and grab all the glory when it's positive.

[kapkomet]

And how can I discredit the media when they print something negative and grab all the glory when it's positive.

The media is the great enabler.

[BigSqwert]

Here is a challenge for anyone on this board - show me any single thing this President has done since about 1/1/03 that has been positive.

Here's a list of accomplishments that I copied from another message board:

 

George W. Bush: his accomplishments as president

April 16th, 2007

 

* Entered office with the strongest economy in US history, and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.

 

* First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.

 

* Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.

 

* Attacked and took over two countries.

 

* Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.

 

* Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.

 

* Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.

 

* First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.

 

* First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.

 

* After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history.

 

* Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips than any other president in US history.

 

* In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.

 

*Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.

 

* Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.

 

* Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.

 

* Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.

 

* Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in US history.

 

* Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.

 

* Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.

 

* Cut health care benefits for war veterans.

 

* Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest Bush (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.

 

* Dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.

 

* Bush's presidency is the most secretive and un-accountable of any in US history.

 

* Members of his cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the ‘poorest’ multi-millionaire, Condoleeza Rice has an Exxon oil tanker named after her).

 

* First president in US history to have all 50 states of the Union simultaneously go bankrupt.

 

* Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.

 

* First president in US history to order a US attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation.

 

* Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.

 

* Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history.

 

* First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission.

 

* First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board.

 

* Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.

 

* Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.

 

* Withdrew from the World Court of Law.

 

* Refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abides by the Geneva Conventions.

 

* First president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections).

 

* All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.

 

* His biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).

 

* Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.

 

* First president in US history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.

 

* First president to run and hide when the US came under attack on 9/11/01 (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1).

 

* First US president to establish a secret shadow government.

 

* Took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).

 

* With a policy of ‘dis-engagement’ created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.

 

* First US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view his presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.

 

* First US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.

 

* Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.

 

* Failed to fulfill his pledge to get Osama Bin Laden ‘dead or alive’.

 

* Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capital building. After 18 months, no leads and zero suspects.

 

* In the 18 months following the 911 attacks Bush successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.

 

* Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.

 

* In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the US has ever been since the civil war.

 

* Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.

 

The War in Iraq —

(1) Caused calamitous damage to America’s global standing.

(2) Is a geopolitical disaster

(3) Increased the terrorist threat to the United States.

 

A global survey shows that people around the world regard the United States as the 3rd worst contributor to global affairs — behind only Israel and Iran.

[kapkomet]

Yea, because HE controls all of that. Give me a break.

[BigSqwert]

Yea, because HE controls all of that. Give me a break.

You have to admit his negatives have greatly outweighed his positives. It is very difficult to come up with a list of positive accomplishments during his reign.

[NorthSideSox72]

Here's a list of accomplishments that I copied from another message board:

Yeah, there are plenty of negatives, but since we discuss those all the time I wanted to try for the positives. So far, we have:

 

--The marine sanctuary

--Justice Roberts

 

Any others?

[southsider2k5]

Um, I hate to break this to you BS, but the very first thing on the list is a complete lie, unless by strongest economy every, you mean in recession within 6 weeks. Actually looking over that the great majority of the economic figures are either a result of the recession he inhertited, or as a result of 9-11. I always like when facts are distorted, or just made into out right lies.

[Texsox]

Um, I hate to break this to you BS, but the very first thing on the list is a complete lie, unless by strongest economy every, you mean in recession within 6 weeks. Actually looking over that the great majority of the economic figures are either a result of the recession he inhertited, or as a result of 9-11. I always like when facts are distorted, or just made into out right lies.

 

Which begs the question, should Presidents ever receive credit or blame for the economy?

[southsider2k5]

Which begs the question, should Presidents ever receive credit or blame for the economy?

 

Well that depends on how much action the President takes to influence the economy. Not all fiscal tools are at the disposal of just the federal reserve bank. Things like tax rates are the control of the President and Congress, while things like interest rates, and banking reserve laws are the behest of the Fed Bank.

[NorthSideSox72]

Well that depends on how much action the President takes to influence the economy. Not all fiscal tools are at the disposal of just the federal reserve bank. Things like tax rates are the control of the President and Congress, while things like interest rates, and banking reserve laws are the behest of the Fed Bank.

I agree, there is no definitive answer. No President can take all or even a majority of credit (good or bad) for the economy, but they have all had some influence at some level.

[Texsox]

Well that depends on how much action the President takes to influence the economy. Not all fiscal tools are at the disposal of just the federal reserve bank. Things like tax rates are the control of the President and Congress, while things like interest rates, and banking reserve laws are the behest of the Fed Bank.

 

Even not doing something, is doing something.

 

Like almost everything, the President receives way to much credit or blame.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Even not doing something, is doing something.

 

If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice??

Keep it in the Geddy Lee thread,buddy.

[BigSqwert]

More anarchy in Iraq:

 

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Insurgent bombers launched a series of attacks across Baghdad on Wednesday and killed at least 171 people and wounded scores -- a particularly violent day in a bloody capital city enduring sectarian warfare and an aggressive government crackdown against insurgents.

 

Further south, British forces transferred security control to Iraqi troops in Maysan province, a sign that Iraq is taking another step toward "self-reliance." However, the spate of Baghdad blasts reflects the stiff challenges posed by what has been a resilient insurgency.

 

The Interior Ministry issued this update:

 

• 122 dead, 150 wounded in Sadriya market in central Baghdad;

 

• 28 dead, 44 wounded in an attack near an Iraqi Army checkpoint at one of the entrances to Sadr City, the official said;

 

• 11 civilians were killed and 13 others wounded when a parked car bomb detonated in central Baghdad's Karrada district. The car was parked near a hospital and a market;

 

• Four police officers were killed and 6 civilians wounded shortly when a suicide car bomber exploded at an Iraqi police checkpoint in southern Baghdad;

 

• Four people were killed and eight were wounded by a bomber targeting a police patrol near a checkpoint in Saidiya, in southwestern Baghdad. Two of those killed were police and the other two were civilians;

 

• Two civilians were killed and 9 others wounded when a roadside bomb detonated at a busy intersection in central Baghdad.

 

Entire article: LINK

[NorthSideSox72]

As the Iraq bill gets ever closer to passing Congress, two tidbits caught my eye.

 

First, quotes from Cheney and Reid...

 

"It is cynical to declare that the war is lost because you believe it gives you political advantage," Cheney said.

 

Reid, D-Nevada, dismissed Cheney's comments. "I'm not going to get into a name-calling match with the administration's chief attack dog," he told reporters.

 

Yet again, Reid showing the world that he was a horrible choice to be the Majority Leader in the Senate. That guy really is an embarrassment to the Dems. Far worse than Pelosi, in my opinion.

 

Then there is this...

 

The bill has about $100 billion in spending for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but also includes earmarks to pay for programs for Hurricane Katrina victims, raising the minimum wage and a $4.8 billion tax cut for small businesses that would be spread out over the next decade. Democrats cut some spending that had drawn ridicule, including funds for a peanut storage facility in Georgia.

 

Its amazing to me, how this Dem Congress started off so well (they accomplished more in their opening days than the last few Congress' had in their entire terms), and then derail so badly. I think its some combination of poor leadership (Pelosi and Reid), fear standing up against the Iraq debacle (even though they now clearly have public support for pulling out), and too many Congressmen in both parties being too tied to pay-for-play. Whatever it is, its horrible.

 

The only good news is that last sentence - because the ridiculous, unrelated spending in the bill was brought to light, and there was a public outcry... they removed some of the pork. Chalk a small one up for the public, the press and the GOP Congressmen willing to air that out. Unfortunately, the unrelated crap is still mostly there.