Sox Loss Postgame Thread

[fathom]

Jenks needs to get those outs, plain and simple.

 

I don't mean this pessimistically for 2007, but we definitely sold our soul to have the production we had from the bullpen in 2005.

[StrangeSox]

Jenks got a hitter to hit a ball that should have been caught and ended the inning.

 

Pods, and Guillen by extension, messed it up.

[SoxFan1]

WTF are you talking about? This is a post-game thread? What the f*** do you expect us to talk about, pink poke-a-dots and giraffes? My freaking Lord...

I happen to like giraffes actually...

 

In a nutshell, I agree with Sleepy. Jenks should have gotten Walker and/or Ellis.

 

And fathom, no one is arguing, everyone pretty much has the same opinion. What I see is b****ing and complaining...

[fathom]

Billy Beane hires managers that do what Billy Beane says, which is usually absolutely nothing other than make out the lineup card.

 

Geren didn't do a damned thing tonight! He got lucky because Piazza roped a ball through a 10 foot hole on the left side of our infield, and then he knew enough to pinch hit Walker, an excellent professional hitter (and this is no f'ing mystery), who got a solid hit to left.

 

If there is one person you cannot praise, it is an Oakland Athletics manager, because they do absolutely nothing. Beane knows it himself. Who else FIRES managers whose team made the playoffs THAT season? It's a mathematical system in Oakland, and the manager has nothing to do with it.

 

He also was proactive when he walked Thome in the 4th inning after Pods stupidly stole 2nd base. Geren took advantage of how poorly our righty hitters looked tonight.

[Wanne]

In a one run game, isn't that the exact point we're arguing?

 

I would hope so. I would also hope KW is pretty pissed off tonight. That was just a pathetic job by Ozzie tonight. Sometimes I'm not sure if he's just bad...or just stubborn as s***.

[southsideirish71]

2006 is making a horrible return right now, I actually managed to wipe the name Chris Rongey from my memory bank for 6 months. Fantastic.

 

 

I feel likes its 2005 right now at least offensively.

 

[Milkman delivers]

It basically comes down to this. If you defend Ozzie for everything he does, then you have to reeeeeeally stretch to make an excuse here.

 

If you are anybody else on the face of the Earth, you see he made a mistake mostly because he's pig-headed and severly dislikes Brian Anderson.

[iamshack]

It basically comes down to this. If you defend Ozzie for everything he does, then you have to reeeeeeally stretch to make an excuse here.

 

If you are anybody else on the face of the Earth, you see he made a mistake mostly because he's pig-headed and severly dislikes Brian Anderson.

 

Well this is how I see it...I don't like second-guessing every mistake that costs us a damned game, because it's really f'ing easy. There are too many great managers out there who have things backfire on them and lose games. I think people also have to remember Ozzie has to interact with these guys nearly 7 days a week. Everyone is human. He has to make decisions not only based on how they will affect a given situation or game, but also how they will affect a player's pysche in the long run. This is a hell of a lot more complicated than some like to believe.

 

Anyone catch the end of the Indians/Angels game tonight? Mike Scoscia, a damned-fine manager, is trailing 7-6 in the 9th, with two outs. He pinch runs Erick Aybar for Casey Kotchman at first base. Aybar, whose successful stealing percentage in the minor leagues makes Podsednik look like a freaking LOCK, decides to send Aybar instead of allowing a 4-4 on the day Howie Kendrick a chance to knock him in with a double or more. Aybar gets gunned down at second, for the second time in this situation THIS WEEK, and the Angels lose, 7-6. He took the bat out of Kendrick's hands...

 

Face it, every manager makes blunders....this was not Ozzie's best evening, but all things considered, there is plenty of blame to go around...

Edited April 11, 2007 by iamshack

[Kalapse]

Well this is how I see it...I don't like second-guessing every mistake that costs us a damned game, because it's really f'ing easy. There are too many great managers out there who have things backfire on them and lose games. I think people also have to remember Ozzie has to interact with these guys nearly 7 days a week. Everyone is human. He has to make decisions not only based on how they will affect a given situation or game, but also how they will affect a player's pysche in the long run. This is a hell of a lot more complicated than some like to believe.

 

Anyone catch the end of the Indians/Angels game tonight? Mike Scoscia, a damned-fine manager, is trailing 7-6 in the 9th, with two outs. He pich runs Erick Aybar for Casey Kotchman at first base. Aybar, whose successful stealing percentage in the minor leagues makes Podsednik look like a freaking LOCK, decides to send Aybar instead of allowing a 4-4 on the day Howie Kendrick a chance to knock him in with a double or more. Aybar gets gunned down at second, for the second time in this situation THIS WEEK, and the Angels lose, 7-6. He took the bat out of Kendrick's hands...

 

Face it, every manager makes blunders....this was not Ozzie's best evening, but all things considered, there is plenty of blame to go around...

Is it really second guessing when you call him out on it ahead of time?

[iamshack]

Is it really second guessing when you call him out on it ahead of time?

 

Tell me you don't call him on stuff all the time and it works out in his favor? I know I do all the time and he proves me wrong...

[fathom]

Well this is how I see it...I don't like second-guessing every mistake that costs us a damned game, because it's really f'ing easy. There are too many great managers out there who have things backfire on them and lose games. I think people also have to remember Ozzie has to interact with these guys nearly 7 days a week. Everyone is human. He has to make decisions not only based on how they will affect a given situation or game, but also how they will affect a player's pysche in the long run. This is a hell of a lot more complicated than some like to believe.

 

Still doesn't explain why he wouldn't put Anderson in the field for the 9th inning. Also, for someone that makes so many decision in order to play the percentages, I have no clue why he let Mackowiak face a LHP in the 7th inning.

[Kalapse]

Who the f*** is the screener for the Sox Post game shows on the score? Can we get a little variety? Must every f***ing caller be a PFB clone?

 

Tell me you don't call him on stuff all the time and it works out in his favor? I know I do all the time and he proves me wrong...

He proves me wrong every once in a while but the proof is on this site, a lot of the times when people end up b****ing about Ozzie after the game, that same complaint was made at the time of the move. Often by myself.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

It basically comes down to this. If you defend Ozzie for everything he does, then you have to reeeeeeally stretch to make an excuse here.

 

If you are anybody else on the face of the Earth, you see he made a mistake mostly because he's pig-headed and severly dislikes Brian Anderson.

 

 

I just don't see how Ozzie would get all the blame for this one when Jenks was pitching so s***ty. If you're an Ozzie-hater, you have to reeeeeeally stretch to blame this loss all on Ozzie or most of the blame on Ozzie and Podsednik over Jenks.

[shoota]

Who the f*** is the screener for the Sox Post game shows on the score? Can we get a little variety? Must every f***ing caller be a PFB clone?

He proves me wrong every once in a while but the proof is on this site, a lot of the times when people end up b****ing about Ozzie after the game, that same complaint was made at the time of the move. Often by myself.

 

Yeah, the last caller comment about Guillen's use of bench players has no relevance to tonight's game at all.

[beautox]

Is it really second guessing when you call him out on it ahead of time?

 

no i believe thats called foresight and common sense.

[SoxFan1]

Who the f*** is the screener for the Sox Post game shows on the score? Can we get a little variety? Must every f***ing caller be a PFB clone?

He proves me wrong every once in a while but the proof is on this site, a lot of the times when people end up b****ing about Ozzie after the game, that same complaint was made at the time of the move. Often by myself.

You're giving yourself and everyone else way too much credit. Everyone calls Ozzie out on everything he does. Not hard to be wrong when thats the case...

[beautox]

You're giving yourself and everyone else way too much credit. Everyone calls Ozzie out on everything he does. Not hard to be wrong when thats the case...

 

[fathom]

You're giving yourself and everyone else way too much credit. Everyone calls Ozzie out on everything he does. Not hard to be wrong when thats the case...

 

I agree that we call him out on everything. It's just that when there's obvious situations where something needs to be done, it pisses us off when it's not made. Mackowiak's AB in the 7th is a great example. I doubt any other manager in baseball lets him bat there.

[southsideirish71]

Someone just called in from the site.

[Kalapse]

You're giving yourself and everyone else way too much credit. Everyone calls Ozzie out on everything he does. Not hard to be wrong when thats the case...

I'm not going to lump myself in with everyone else but if you read what I post on this site then you'll know that I DO NOT criticize every move he makes, that's some bulls***.

[iamshack]

Still doesn't explain why he wouldn't put Anderson in the field for the 9th inning. Also, for someone that makes so many decision in order to play the percentages, I have no clue why he let Mackowiak face a LHP in the 7th inning.

 

I'm not suggesting he shouldn't have made the defensive replacement. I'm suggesting that sometimes the players have to perform too.

 

And Kalapse, I said immediately after the top of the 9th ended, Bobby is going to blow this save. I say things all the time. Sometimes I am right, most of the time I am wrong. Bottom line is, we can second guess all we want, it isn't as simple as you'd like to make it. And if indeed, it is as simple as you make it, how stupid are you for sitting here with us and repeating it over and over again in vain on a message board?

 

Ok, I am through venting for the evening. Let's get a win tomorrow.

[shoota]

I just don't see how Ozzie would get all the blame for this one when Jenks was pitching so s***ty. If you're an Ozzie-hater, you have to reeeeeeally stretch to blame this loss all on Ozzie or most of the blame on Ozzie and Podsednik over Jenks.

 

 

But you do acknowledge Guillen's mistake of not using BA as a 9th inning defensive replacement, right?

[fathom]

Someone just called in from the site.

 

Explain

[Flash Tizzle]

Someone just called in from the site.

What was the question from the caller and PFB's response?

[Kalapse]

I just don't see how Ozzie would get all the blame for this one when Jenks was pitching so s***ty. If you're an Ozzie-hater, you have to reeeeeeally stretch to blame this loss all on Ozzie or most of the blame on Ozzie and Podsednik over Jenks.

If there is an average defender in LF for the 9th inning, Bradley is probably thrown out at home, probably. That same defender makes that last play with his back to the wall, Pods had no clue what he was doing on that last play, a guy like Erstad who knows what he's doing in the outfield makes the play and we go to extras. Podsednik should not have been in the game, that's Ozzie's call. There I just put 33% of the blame on Ozzie for the 9th inning, not the majority but certainly a good portion.