Sox Loss Postgame Thread

[SoxFan1]

I'm not going to lump myself in with everyone else but if you read what I post on this site then you'll know that I DO NOT criticize every move he makes, that's some bulls***.

I never said you did specifically, I was speaking more generally about the SoxTalk public. You don't criticize all of Ozzies moves, I know that. But when he does make a mistake, you sure are one of the 1st people saying they called it...

[witesoxfan]

 

wallpaper

[southsideirish71]

Explain

 

Interesting call about some theory about hitting the lip of the wall, and how the ball came down. And then some complaints about how bobby isnt the same and doesnt throw hard anymore. Same call

[SleepyWhiteSox]

But you do acknowledge Guillen's mistake of not using BA as a 9th inning defensive replacement, right?

 

How does having ba in CF guarantee that the ball gets caught in LF?

 

Don't tell me you knew that's where the ball was going and would've had ba in LF.

[iamshack]

I agree that we call him out on everything. It's just that when there's obvious situations where something needs to be done, it pisses us off when it's not made. Mackowiak's AB in the 7th is a great example. I doubt any other manager in baseball lets him bat there.

 

And I doubt any other umpire calls Scottie out on a foul ball bunt claiming he hit it while being out of the box....stuff happens....these umpires in Oakland have really SUCKED, btw.

[Kalapse]

I'm not suggesting he shouldn't have made the defensive replacement. I'm suggesting that sometimes the players have to perform too.

 

And Kalapse, I said immediately after the top of the 9th ended, Bobby is going to blow this save. I say things all the time. Sometimes I am right, most of the time I am wrong. Bottom line is, we can second guess all we want, it isn't as simple as you'd like to make it. And if indeed, it is as simple as you make it, how stupid are you for sitting here with us and repeating it over and over again in vain on a message board?

 

Ok, I am through venting for the evening. Let's get a win tomorrow.

It had nothing to do with Jenks, Ozzie was fine in that regard. It was his use of his outfielders that bothered me. I'm pretty sure it's easy to switch your fielders around and make substitutions. I don't think there's any complicated levers or dials to be fiddled with that might confuse the manager but I've never been in a major league dugout during a game so who knows.

[southsideirish71]

How does having ba in CF guarantee that the ball gets caught in LF?

 

Don't tell me you knew that's where the ball was going and would've had ba in LF.

 

 

Well lets put Joe Crede in LF, and then put Dye at SS. Sure maybe they dont make the play, but there is no definitive proof that either's real player would of made the play either.

[Gene Honda Civic]

How does having ba in CF guarantee that the ball gets caught in LF?

Use your head.

[SoxFan1]

Use your head.

Well, Pods did...

[fathom]

How does having ba in CF guarantee that the ball gets caught in LF?

 

Don't tell me you knew that's where the ball was going and would've had ba in LF.

 

I think the argument is you put your best defensive outfield possible into the game when you're up 1 in the 9th inning. Pods is the worst outfielder we have...he should have never been in the game. I'm sure it's not the last time Ozzie will make this mistake.

[shoota]

How does having ba in CF guarantee that the ball gets caught in LF?

 

Don't tell me you knew that's where the ball was going and would've had ba in LF.

 

 

You're done.

[Kalapse]

I never said you did specifically, I was speaking more generally about the SoxTalk public. You don't criticize all of Ozzies moves, I know that. But when he does make a mistake, you sure are one of the 1st people saying they called it...

If I did call it then why wouldn't I post about it? I had a discussion on the board this morning about the use of Anderson as a late game defensive replacement and guess what? That just happened to play a big part in tonights game. I happened to be on the right side of the argument this morning, of course I'm going to talk about it now. It only makes sense.

 

I just don't like it when obvious moves are not made and they end up costing the team runs or games, I'm going to b**** when that happens, you should probably get used to it.

 

Interesting call about some theory about hitting the lip of the wall, and how the ball came down. And then some complaints about how bobby isnt the same and doesnt throw hard anymore. Same call

It could not have been more obvious, exact same talking points.

[SoxFan1]

If I did call it then why wouldn't I post about it? I had a discussion on the board this morning about the use of Anderson as a late game defensive replacement and guess what? That just happened to play a big part in tonights game. I happened to be on the right side of the argument this morning, of course I'm going to talk about it now. It only makes sense.

 

I just don't like it when obvious moves are not made and they end up costing the team runs or games, I'm going to b**** when that happens, you should probably get used to it.

Perhaps its not the obvious move to Ozzie that it is to you, or the rest of us. Did anyone catch the Post Game conference? Did Ozzie address what happened?

[fathom]

Perhaps its not the obvious move to Ozzie that it is to you, or the rest of us. Did anyone catch the Post Game conference? Did Ozzie address what happened?

 

I mean this respectfully SF1, but if it wasn't obvious to Ozzie, then I don't want him managing this team. It's one game though, and if this makes him adjust his defense late in games, then maybe it will be worth it.

[southsideirish71]

If I did call it then why wouldn't I post about it? I had a discussion on the board this morning about the use of Anderson as a late game defensive replacement and guess what? That just happened to play a big part in tonights game. I happened to be on the right side of the argument this morning, of course I'm going to talk about it now. It only makes sense.

 

I just don't like it when obvious moves are not made and they end up costing the team runs or games, I'm going to b**** when that happens, you should probably get used to it.

It could not have been more obvious, exact same talking points.

 

I think people started questioning Pods defense when we actually saw him play defense in LF. Last year he was downright terrible. He was defensively replaced about everytime you could last year. This year, we leave him in. People need to review the game threads this year. I think there have been questions in all close games, why is pods still out in LF. Why hasnt he been replaced defensively.

[iamshack]

It had nothing to do with Jenks, Ozzie was fine in that regard. It was his use of his outfielders that bothered me. I'm pretty sure it's easy to switch your fielders around and make substitutions. I don't think there's any complicated levers or dials to be fiddled with that might confuse the manager but I've never been in a major league dugout during a game so who knows.

I don't disagree with you. He should have made the defensive change. He didn't.

 

The fact that you think it was fine to bring in Jenks though makes it extremely clear how much reasonable opinions can differ here though. I wanted no part of Jenks in that situation, because his velocity isn't there and the A's are an extremely good fastball-hitting team. I can sit here and say Ozzie should have not gone to Jenks, simply because he is our "closer" in a 1-0 game.

 

Moreover, the fact that you think it was ok to leave Jenks in there after he gave up two sharp singles immediately makes it even more clear how reasonable opinions should differ. I would have gone to Thornton to get Chavez and Swisher.

 

Everything isn't always black and white. Even when things work out the way you thought they might, Kalapse.

[Kalapse]

I think people started questioning Pods defense when we actually saw him play defense in LF. Last year he was downright terrible. He was defensively replaced about everytime you could last year. This year, we leave him in. People need to review the game threads this year. I think there have been questions in all close games, why is pods still out in LF. Why hasnt he been replaced defensively.

It started the second game of the season. I remember posting "Have there been any defensive substitutions?" "Who's out in LF, why are they not saying anything?" "Why is he leaving Pods out in LF?" in the 8th inning of game 2. I just don't understand why Ozzie does one thing last year then says in the offseason he's going to do it again this year then 7 games with ample opportunities he doesn't do it once. Is this some sort of special season where Ozzie lies about everything in the Spring to throw off the opponent?

[SoxFan1]

I mean this respectfully SF1, but if it wasn't obvious to Ozzie, then I don't want him managing this team. It's one game though, and if this makes him adjust his defense late in games, then maybe it will be worth it.

I don't know. We seem to second guess everything he does, or doesn't do, so maybe to him, it's regular not to make defensive replacements, or make bullpen changes too often, etc.

 

What we never seem to find out is why Ozzie does what he does.

[southsideirish71]

 

I found our problem. Ozzies magic 8 ball is broke. He shook it and asked, should I put the devil Anderson in for a defensive replacement.

 

 

 

I don't know. We seem to second guess everything he does, or doesn't do, so maybe to him, it's regular not to make defensive replacements, or make bullpen changes too often, etc.

 

What we never seem to find out is why Ozzie does what he does.

 

In a 1-0 game Slav. How many 1-0 games with a terrible OF, do you not replace him defensively.

Edited April 11, 2007 by southsideirish71

[Milkman delivers]

I just don't see how Ozzie would get all the blame for this one when Jenks was pitching so s***ty. If you're an Ozzie-hater, you have to reeeeeeally stretch to blame this loss all on Ozzie or most of the blame on Ozzie and Podsednik over Jenks.

 

Oh, they're all to blame. But listening to those supporting Ozzie, one would think all the blame is being heaped on him. We're spreading the blame around quite well.

[Kalapse]

I don't disagree with you. He should have made the defensive change. He didn't.

 

The fact that you think it was fine to bring in Jenks though makes it extremely clear how much reasonable opinions can differ here though. I wanted no part of Jenks in that situation, because his velocity isn't there and the A's are an extremely good fastball-hitting team. I can sit here and say Ozzie should have not gone to Jenks, simply because he is our "closer" in a 1-0 game.

 

Moreover, the fact that you think it was ok to leave Jenks in there after he gave up two sharp singles immediately makes it even more clear how reasonable opinions should differ. I would have gone to Thornton to get Chavez and Swisher.

 

Everything isn't always black and white. Even when things work out the way you thought they might, Kalapse.

Actually after i saw what Jenks had and just how terrible he looked on the mound I remember screaming for Thornton, so yeah we definitely agree on that one. It's a lot like the Cleveland game from last September, I had no problem with Ozzie going to Jenks but he needs to be ready with a contingency in the warming in the pen, if the closer looks like he's not going to be able to get anyone out he can't be afraid to make the move. This doesn't need to be done every time but when he's going to pitch Jenks on back to back days or after complaining about a sore hip, he definitely needs to have a quick hook.

[Flash Tizzle]

I don't know. We seem to second guess everything he does, or doesn't do, so maybe to him, it's regular not to make defensive replacements, or make bullpen changes too often, etc.

 

What we never seem to find out is why Ozzie does what he does.

Not everything he does -- only the painfully obvious decisions which somehow, for some reason, are overlooked.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

You're done.

 

...

 

 

Anyways, I still think it's laughable to call it "Ozzie's F Up." A defensive replacement may have helped, but there's no guarantee that what likely would've happened, which is ba in CF and Erstad in LF, means that throw is made on the money or that last out is caught. I'm still putting about 80% of the blame on Jenks for just flat-out not getting the job done. That's what pissed me off the most.

[fathom]

...

Anyways, I still think it's laughable to call it "Ozzie's F Up." A defensive replacement may have helped, but there's no guarantee that what likely would've happened, which is ba in CF and Erstad in LF, means that throw is made on the money or that last out is caught. I'm still putting about 80% of the blame on Jenks for just flat-out not getting the job done. That's what pissed me off the most.

 

Do you think that we should have ph for Mackowiak in the 7th inning?

[Kalapse]

I don't know. We seem to second guess everything he does, or doesn't do, so maybe to him, it's regular not to make defensive replacements, or make bullpen changes too often, etc.

 

What we never seem to find out is why Ozzie does what he does.

Actually last season Ozzie pulled Pods late in games quite often, I'm not really sure why he isn't doing it this year. I am curious as to what he said after the game, though after the lies he's made over the past month or so, I'm not so sure I can believe him.