Sox Loss Postgame Thread

[Kalapse]

I was informed during spring training that Ozuna would rank quite low on the grinder scale.

 

Kalapse please help me on this one, PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE kthx

Using the formula I came up with I get the following numbers:

 

Pujols:      772

Ichiro:      388

Erstad:      264

Eckstein:    264

Rowand:      264

Byrnes:      251

Podsednik:   231

Mathews Jr.: 206

Ozuna:       201

 

I figure the ultimate Grinder number is set at 264 with anyone within 40 points either way of that number being considered a Grinder. The further away from 264 you get the less of a Grinder you are.

[witesoxfan]

Using the formula I came up with I get the following numbers:

 

Pujols:      772

Ichiro:      388

Erstad:      264

Eckstein:    264

Rowand:      264

Byrnes:      251

Podsednik:   231

Mathews Jr.: 206

Ozuna:       201

 

I figure the ultimate Grinder number is set at 264 with anyone within 40 points either way of that number being considered a Grinder. The further away from 264 you get the less of a Grinder you are.

 

yessssssssssssssssssss I feel better now.

[chisoxfan79]

I just got home from work and saw what happened on ESPN news you have to be kidding me Pods airmails that throw then lets one bounce off his head I hate Oakland. I will give Jenks a pass, every closer has a couple games like this a year and he has always struggled pitching back to back days

[Y2HH]

There was a lot more wrong with that game than Pods missing a throw or a catch when he wasn't playing very deep to begin with.

 

Umpire blows call which would have resulted in a successful squeeze play from Pods, which would have added a run.

 

A WTF inconsistant strike zone, bigger for the A's, smaller for the Sox. I saw multiple instances where the Oakland pitchers were getting strike calls, and our pitchers were not in the exact same locations.

 

Multiple blown opportunities to score insurance runs.

 

Jenks pitching batting practice fastballs.

 

When Jenks can't hit 97+, hes ineffective. He's like watching Billy Koch after he lost his velocity. Nobody was afriad of Koch after he couldn't throw into the high 90's/100mph, and the same stands for Jenks. It was Todd Walker for F's sake...not Pujols, and walker sat on pitches just like the others who were aleady on base. When Jenks isn't hammering 97+, nobody is afraid of his curve, no matter how much break he has on it, because they know they'll just foul it off without the worry of him blowing a fastball past.

 

Until Jenks gets his velocity back up, he shouldn't be put into tight situations, and that's all there is too it, he's ineffective.

 

If we win tonight, and take 2/3 from Oakland, it's not a total loss...if we end up losing 2/3, this is just another example of why we will end up losing the division by .5 games or something -- pointing back to games such as this one, that make up the difference between playoffs and home in October.

Edited April 11, 2007 by Y2HH

[Hideaway Lights]

for those keeping a tally on losses directly attributable to ozzie, a few questions:

 

1) Is Ozzie ever directly attributable to a win, or is that just the players?

2) Why do you assume Anderson would've thrown a perfect strike, or that AJ would've held onto the ball 100% of the time?

3) How is the offense and/or bobby jenks not at least equally accountable for this loss?

[Brian]

Maybe, maybe not. But it would have been a hell of a lot closer.

 

It looked like Bradley was limping home half way down the 3rd base line. If pods hits AJ, I believe Bradley is out.

 

Anytime the middle of our order wants to start hitting, that would be great.

[NorthSideSox72]

Well Ozzie screwed up with Pods out there in LF.

 

That said, this loss is on Jenks' shoulders far more than anyone else's. The Pods play at the wall, the game was already tied, and that ball was hit pretty well. If Jenks has his stuff going, none of this matters. This seems to be a pattern with him, not getting his velocity straight away in April, which is not a good sign for his future health. He takes until May to get going, and fades in September, so one wonders if he can make it a full season.

 

I didn't catch the failed squeeze play, so I'm not sure what the deal there was.

[Brian]

I didn't catch the failed squeeze play, so I'm not sure what the deal there was.

 

The ump said the ball hit Pods when he was out of the batters box, but it hit him while in so it should of been a foul ball, but the ump called Pods out.

[NorthSideSox72]

The ump said the ball hit Pods when he was out of the batters box, but it hit him while in so it should of been a foul ball, but the ump called Pods out.

well that sucks.

[Colorado Sox Fan]

 

A WTF inconsistant strike zone, bigger for the A's, smaller for the Sox. I saw multiple instances where the Oakland pitchers were getting strike calls, and our pitchers were not in the exact same locations.

 

Multiple blown opportunities to score insurance runs.

 

I am not one to blame the umps, but agree completely on the strike zone comment.

 

Yes, we had some good chances to go up 2-0 or 3-0. I don't have a man crush on BA (far from it), but I thought he should have hit for Mack against the lefty.

 

And, the middle of the order was nonexistent. Paulie, Crede, AJ.

[fathom]

The ump said the ball hit Pods when he was out of the batters box, but it hit him while in so it should of been a foul ball, but the ump called Pods out.

 

It would have been a foul ball then, and not a successful bunt.

[joeynach]

Jenks isn't that good.

 

I watched Papelbon work out of a 2 on 1 out jam the other night and save a game. Jenks has clean sacks and can't keep a very average team from teeing off on him.

 

This was a bad loss...Jenks should have blown it down. Garland and Mac went 8 damn innings and gave up 3 hits, sad-sack Jenks gave up 3 hits in less than an inning. Bla Bla Bla...blame it on Pods, but he was in left-field while Garland and Mac were easily rolling over a very average offensive team.

 

This loss is on Jenks and I want Mac in the closers role. Jenks is over-rated.

 

 

Jenks was throwing 89-90 topping at 93. When thats your strait fastball you are doomed. The moment Cooper and Ozzie saw his velocity so low they should have yanked him. I dont know if he wasn't lose, his arm strength isn't there or what but at this point we have better options than an 89 mph strait fastball closer.

 

Let's hypothesize here that Jenks doesn't regain lost velocity and sits around 93-94mph. Even with such a fastball, Jenks has quality offspeed pitches within his arsenal. His cutter isn't half bad, either. If he showcases the changeup seen in the Indians series, his production should easily exceed that of Shingo and Politte.

 

I'm not happy about the prospect of a declining Jenks, but we have two major league capable closers already in the bullpen. Jenks at ~4.25ERA still isn't terrible if other relievers hold their own and fill in during the 9th inning.

 

Or Jenks could just be the flame throwing closer he always was hitting 97-98 every pitch. Why is that we seem to have such a problem with the velocity of our hard throwers but the other guys like papelbon, zumaya, and Wagner do it every time no matter what. They never have "I need to build arm strength" or "the velocity will slowly come back" type situation. They are hard throwers they throw hard, now and always, but our guys "will get there". What a joke. Either you are a flamethrower and u throw overpowering pitcher or your aren't, right now Jenks looks like the 2nd.

[caulfield12]

Jenks was throwing 89-90 topping at 93. When thats your strait fastball you are doomed. The moment Cooper and Ozzie saw his velocity so low they should have yanked him. I dont know if he wasn't lose, his arm strength isn't there or what but at this point we have better options than an 89 mph strait fastball closer.

 

2006

 

Twins 10 blown save opportunities THE WHOLE season, only one or maybe TWO leading to losses

 

White Sox 17 (I think the White Sox lost 5-6 games like this in April and May alone, between Cotts/Nelson/Politte/Jenks)...

 

 

2007

 

White Sox 3 blown save opportunities, directly resulting in two losses in the FIRST WEEK...at this rate, we WILL HAVE 69 BLOWN SAVES THIS SEASON.

 

What the White Sox record SHOULD BE...5-2 (first place)

Actual Record...3-4 (fourth place)

 

That will be our season in a nutshell. Maybe the media pundits are all correct.

 

 

Jenks was throwing 89-90 topping at 93. When thats your strait fastball you are doomed. The moment Cooper and Ozzie saw his velocity so low they should have yanked him. I dont know if he wasn't lose, his arm strength isn't there or what but at this point we have better options than an 89 mph strait fastball closer.

Or Jenks could just be the flame throwing closer he always was hitting 97-98 every pitch. Why is that we seem to have such a problem with the velocity of our hard throwers but the other guys like papelbon, zumaya, and Wagner do it every time no matter what. They never have "I need to build arm strength" or "the velocity will slowly come back" type situation. They are hard throwers they throw hard, now and always, but our guys "will get there". What a joke. Either you are a flamethrower and u throw overpowering pitcher or your aren't, right now Jenks looks like the 2nd.

 

The only flamethrowers we've ever had were Colon and Jenks for two months in the 2005 season.

 

Other than that, the White Sox have been bereft of legit fireballers since I can remember following the team, which dates back to the mid-80's.

 

And please don't say Roberto Hernandez or Billy Koch.

[Brian]

White Sox 3 blown save opportunities, directly resulting in two losses in the FIRST WEEK...at this rate, we WILL HAVE 69 BLOWN SAVES THIS SEASON.

 

What the White Sox record SHOULD BE...5-2 (first place)

Actual Record...3-4 (fourth place)

 

That will be our season in a nutshell. Maybe the media pundits are all correct.

The only flamethrowers we've ever had were Colon and Jenks for two months in the 2005 season.

 

Other than that, the White Sox have been bereft of legit fireballers since I can remember following the team, which dates back to the mid-80's.

 

And please don't say Roberto Hernandez or Billy Koch.

 

How accurate! OMG! 69 Blown Saves, how poetic! I'm on the ledge!

[Balance]

I'm so glad I didn't stay up for this game....

[badatbest]

its a joke that BA wasnt in the game with a 1-0 lead late. BA makes that catch and it wouldnt even make sportscenter, it would have looked routine. Now i have to watch that ball hitting Pods in the head on "blooper shows" during rain delays for the next 30 years. great.

[caulfield12]

How accurate! OMG! 69 Blown Saves, how poetic! I'm on the ledge!

 

Why is is that every season from 2001 through 2007, with the notable exception of 2005, the Twins have had a much better bullpen than the White Sox, and a better record as well?

 

To what do you attribute that? Why does their bullpen consistently hold leads...and we consistently find ways to lose leads?

 

The last week of woes for our bullpen is like an entire season for the Twins' pen. Do you really think we can afford to give up 2 games out of every 7 we play and be anything more than a .500 team that's waiting to be dismantled at the trading deadline?

[Wedge]

OK, if you're going to blame Ozzie for last night's game, I don't think it should be over Pods. He's been our most consistent bat and his defense hasn't been too bad this year. Plus, there are no promises that either BA or Erstad make the throw at home or get to the fly ball. I think you should fault him for using Jenks in Monday's game in a non-save situation. Unfortunately, it seems that we can't rely on Jenks as a back-to-back closer right now and really, it was unnecessary to use him Monday night. I can fault Ozzie for that move, but I'm not sure I can really fault him for the non-substitution.

[StrangeSox]

There is no way that you can argue that BA's and Erstad's defense aren't substantially better than the noodle-armed sally.

 

In a 1-0 game in late innings, you make defensive substitutions for poor-fielding OF's.

[BigSqwert]

There is no way that you can argue that BA's and Erstad's defense aren't substantially better than the noodle-armed sally.

 

In a 1-0 game in late innings, you make defensive substitutions for poor-fielding OF's.

Nobody would care about Pods being out there in the 9th if our vaunted offense could get more than 3 hits off a no name loser.

[StrangeSox]

Nobody would care about Pods being out there in the 9th if our vaunted offense could get more than 3 hits off a no name loser.

 

 

Which comes back to Ozzie not PH for any of the 3 right-handed OF's on the bench in the 7th.

 

Bottom line is they took a lead into the bottom of the 9th. They should have been able to hold. Due to poor pitching, poor managing, and terrible defense, they could not.

[badatbest]

Nobody would care about Pods being out there in the 9th if our vaunted offense could get more than 3 hits off a no name loser.

 

 

I would care that our LF got popped in the head with a baseball on the potential last out of the game, even if the game were 22-1.

[iamshack]

Here's a question I have for you: if the Sox are up 1 tomorrow going into the 9th (and Pods started with Anderson on the bench), would you want Ozzie to keep Pods in the game?

 

No. And throughout this entire thread, not once have I suggested that I would have been upset had BA been subbed for defensive purposes. But unlike the tonesetters here, I refuse to blame every goddamned loss on Ozzie or Scott Podsednik.

 

This site is filled with armchair generals who know everything. On this site, God probably got second guessed for creating deserts in the early morning hours of the 5th day ("What the hell are we supposed to do with all this.....sand?").

 

It's a broken record, and it's lame. In my view, players have to be held accountable once in a while, and in this instance, that player is Bobby. He needs to wrap that game up and deliver it to Cooperstown. Instead, he gives up more hits than Garland and MacDougal gave up combined in 8 innings. This loss is on Bobby, and no one else.

Edited April 11, 2007 by iamshack

[BigSqwert]

This loss is on Bobby, and no one else.

I'd like to throw a little blame on our vaunted offense by managing to get 1 run on 3 hits vs some guy named Cy Gaudin.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

I'd like to throw a little blame on our vaunted offense by managing to get 1 run on 3 hits vs some guy named Cy Gaudin.

 

 

An extra run would have/and should have been achieved.

 

That is drives me nuts sometimes about this team...long ball or naught