Bobby Jenks

[spiderman]

Any concern about Bobby Jenks and his lack of velocity ? Last night, he hit 93 MPH on the TV gun, but most of his fastball, the few that he threw, were in the upper 80's. As I also mentioned, he seemed to rely on his off speed pitches instead of looking to overpower hitters. Maybe he's going through a dead arm period, maybe it was just one night.

 

My only real complaint from last night was if Jenks does indeed have live on his fastball for whatever reason, why not give him the night off, and use one of the setup men ? Was there no mention to the dugout that he's not throwing as hard ?

 

Any worries about Jenks or do we write it off as one bad night ?

[whitesoxfan101]

The concern on Bobby here is laughable. He had looked fine his first few outings, he pitched his way into 1st and 2nd nobody out, was ONE PITCH away from somehow getting out of that, and then made a mistake to Walker. And then he made his pitch to get it to the 10th and Pods effed it up.

 

PEOPLE, CALM DOWN!! When I am the one playing the voice of reason, you know people are overreacting lol.

[spiderman]

The concern on Bobby here is laughable. He had looked fine his first few outings, he pitched his way into 1st and 2nd nobody out, was ONE PITCH away from somehow getting out of that, and then made a mistake to Walker. And then he made his pitch to get it to the 10th and Pods effed it up.

 

PEOPLE, CALM DOWN!! When I am the one playing the voice of reason, you know people are overreacting lol.

 

I don't believe I am overreacting. I'm only asking if anyone is concerned if his fastball was around 89MPH last night.

[Brian]

Come back to me in May and ask.

[whitesoxfan101]

I don't believe I am overreacting. I'm only asking if anyone is concerned if his fastball was around 89MPH last night.

 

No no your not, I mean in general, sorry if it seemed like I was saying you, as this is a fair thread. Yeah his fastball velocity is/was down last night, but he lost it because he made a horrid pitch to Walker.

[elrockinMT]

I was concerned about what I saw. I am concerned about a 5-7 MPH drop in his fastball, which only once that I remember topped out at 93. Probably the worse thing last night was his pitch selection. The A's seemed to be missing the high fast ball and he went with the curve once too often. As far as Pods messing up, well they were playing shallow and he had to go back a long ways. It does make you wonder though why Brian Anderson or Dye weren't in there in the 9th for defense when you have a 1-0 lead. What a shame that Garland's great effort was lost.

[caulfield12]

The concern on Bobby here is laughable. He had looked fine his first few outings, he pitched his way into 1st and 2nd nobody out, was ONE PITCH away from somehow getting out of that, and then made a mistake to Walker. And then he made his pitch to get it to the 10th and Pods effed it up.

 

PEOPLE, CALM DOWN!! When I am the one playing the voice of reason, you know people are overreacting lol.

 

 

Last July, he had 7.94 ERA and one blown save in five attempts.

 

He was fine in August (1.84 ERA and 10/10 in saves), but September was also a disaster. In that month, he was 3 for 5 in save opportunities with a 9.82 ERA.

 

Definitely, there HAS to be reason for concern for all White Sox fans, and you can see it in the tone and measured quality of Guillen's comments since ST.

 

We simply have to stay within shouting distance of .500, and you can easily see the White Sox losing 5 in a row after last night's game and with Buehrle so iffy and the way we've played Cleveland the last two years.

 

 

I was concerned about what I saw. I am concerned about a 5-7 MPH drop in his fastball, which only once that I remember topped out at 93. Probably the worse thing last night was his pitch selection. The A's seemed to be missing the high fast ball and he went with the curve once too often. As far as Pods messing up, well they were playing shallow and he had to go back a long ways. It does make you wonder though why Brian Anderson or Dye weren't in there in the 9th for defense when you have a 1-0 lead. What a shame that Garland's great effort was lost.

 

Dye is a player that you can now make a legit argument should be replaced in certain situations in the late innings defensively, especially when he won't come up soon or the lead is 2-4 runs in the 8th or 9th inning.

 

He lost two steps after his broken leg, and he's seemingly lost yet another step this offseason. I'm sure he will end up having a decent year offensively, but I don't think he will put up much more than 25-30 homers and 90 RBI's.

 

KW has been warning about getting old for the last 2-3 seasons, and it's a major reason Dye will be in another uniform next year.

[whitesoxfan101]

There is reason for concern, but we have MacDougal as a backup plan and Bobby hasn't just forgot how to pitch. There is a reason why he almost worked out of that jam last night, after all. Just don't panic....yet, over Bobby.

[Soxpranos]

We must have the most paranoid fans in the world, any little bump and its a concern. Watch the games and enjoy them.. nobody in this world is prefect . if its not Ozzie, its always some other player ... and for all those Ozzie haters, you can thank him for the 2005 world title, stop f'n hating is what im trying to say.

Edited April 11, 2007 by Soxpranos

[caulfield12]

There is reason for concern, but we have MacDougal as a backup plan and Bobby hasn't just forgot how to pitch. There is a reason why he almost worked out of that jam last night, after all. Just don't panic....yet, over Bobby.

 

The problem is that MacDougal's velocity is also way down, he's throwing 93, 94 maybe 95. But I don't trust him to be much better than Jenks at this point, having watched his entire career in KC.

 

I think he'll convert around 7 or 7.5 Save Opportunities out of ten, but we can't afford to give up an extra 4-5 games this season....because the best closers are all at 85-95% conversion rates.

[Harry Chappas]

He should not pitch back-to-back days until his arm strength is up to speed. With this bullpen that should not be an issue. What blows is the Sox should be 5-2 not 3-4.

[caulfield12]

We must have the most paranoid fans in the world, any little bump and its a concern. Watch the games and enjoy them.. nobody in this world is prefect . if its not Ozzie, its always some other player ... and for all those Ozzie haters, you can thank him for the 2005 world title, stop f'n hating is what im trying to say.

 

It's not being paranoid...and I don't think Ozzie should be fired and I give him a lot more credit for 2005 than most.

 

However, you get the sense with Jenks that something is "different" or "off" and I think KW's offseason bolstering of the pen with "power arms" isn't a mere coincidence. He's used to adjusting on the fly (Takatsu to Hermanson to Jenks, in recent years, Gordon/Marte/Koch/Foulke) and I think he anticipated these issues with Jenks after he lost 2-3 MPH last season off his fastball. At least he's not caught in a desperate situation, he has MacDougal and Thornton still.

 

Just like Freddy Garcia, Jon Rauch, Lorenzo Barcelo, Koch, Howry (coming back from injury)...you have this sneaking suspicion that THIS is it (in terms of the fastball), you just deal with what he has out there on the mound or you part ways and move on. We caught lightning in a bottle with Jenks in 2005, but I would be shocked if he was still the White Sox closer in 2010.

[GoSox05]

I think he's been throwing pretty good so far this year.

 

If he starts to fail, we have Mcdougal.

[BainesHOF]

A major loss in velocity is a major concern.

 

Right now, Jenks has emerged as the team's biggest concern, jumping ahead of Buehrle.

[Wedge]

A major loss in velocity is a major concern.

 

Right now, Jenks has emerged as the team's biggest concern, jumping ahead of Buehrle.

 

I think Marky-Mark is more of an unknown than a concern at this point. I think Jenks has had enough outings with relatively low velocity to make worry legitimate. Mark just had some bad luck with a hard hit ball.

[southsideirish71]

The problem is that MacDougal's velocity is also way down, he's throwing 93, 94 maybe 95. But I don't trust him to be much better than Jenks at this point, having watched his entire career in KC.

 

I think he'll convert around 7 or 7.5 Save Opportunities out of ten, but we can't afford to give up an extra 4-5 games this season....because the best closers are all at 85-95% conversion rates.

 

You realize that Coop was on late last year on the Mike North radio show, saying that they are trying to get MacDougal to be more in the strikezone and would rather have him in the zone at 94-95 than out of it for most of the AB at 97. With him its more of concentrating on throwing strikes than all of a sudden his arm is dead.

 

MacDougals ball moves all over the place. If he throws strikes, even at 94-95 its hard to hit. Velocity doesnt equal success. Bobby needs the velocity because his control isnt great, and his fastball doesnt move that much. But he can get by in the middle 90s with this offspeed stuff. Koch whom you keep comparing him to, had no control what so ever and didnt have any of the secondary pitches that Bobby has. Bobby needs to get his fat ass throwing hard again, thats not a secret. But all of the bullpen guys, need to throw strikes. So if they can throw lots of strikes a few mph's off their top velocity its a hell of a lot better than if they are jacking it up, and walking the world.

[caulfield12]

You realize that Coop was on late last year on the Mike North radio show, saying that they are trying to get MacDougal to be more in the strikezone and would rather have him in the zone at 94-95 than out of it for most of the AB at 97. With him its more of concentrating on throwing strikes than all of a sudden his arm is dead.

 

MacDougals ball moves all over the place. If he throws strikes, even at 94-95 its hard to hit. Velocity doesnt equal success. Bobby needs the velocity because his control isnt great, and his fastball doesnt move that much. But he can get by in the middle 90s with this offspeed stuff. Koch whom you keep comparing him to, had no control what so ever and didnt have any of the secondary pitches that Bobby has. Bobby needs to get his fat ass throwing hard again, thats not a secret. But all of the bullpen guys, need to throw strikes. So if they can throw lots of strikes a few mph's off their top velocity its a hell of a lot better than if they are jacking it up, and walking the world.

 

Well, the jury's still out on MacDougal as a closer, I think he was 21 for 25 the last time with the Royals, but closing for the Royals was like Kip Wells' 2002 and 2003 seasons with the Pirates. Pretty meaningless.

 

From taking a cursory look at the stats, his BB/IP ratio is down from the .50 ratio it was 2-3 seasons ago. Last year, 6 walks in 24 IP, that's a pretty good improvement.

 

I still don't think MacDougal puts up a season that replicates the save percentage of Jenks in 2005/06. But anything is better than what the Royals and Indians did last year in the bullpen. The question is, does 21/25 get the job done if Nathan only blows one or two games, or Zumaya/Jones, or Borowski?

 

Koch had a very nice slider, when he would get ahead in the count...but he didn't have the confidence to throw it whenever he really needed to get an out. Jenks does have more faith in his offspeed stuff, sometimes he can have a little too much, like last night, and you end up trying to trick someone instead of coming with your best pitch, which, for Jenks, should be the fastball.

Edited April 11, 2007 by caulfield12

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Well, the jury's still out on MacDougal as a closer, I think he was 21 for 25 the last time with the Royals, but closing for the Royals was like Kip Wells' 2002 and 2003 seasons with the Pirates. Pretty meaningless.

 

From taking a cursory look at the stats, his BB/IP ratio is down from the .50 ratio it was 2-3 seasons ago. Last year, 6 walks in 24 IP, that's a pretty good improvement.

 

I still don't think MacDougal puts up a season that replicates the save percentage of Jenks in 2005/06. But anything is better than what the Royals and Indians did last year in the bullpen. The question is, does 21/25 get the job done if Nathan only blows one or two games, or Zumaya/Jones, or Borowski?

 

 

so is the life of a closer..

[That funky motion]

Didn't Jenks have this same problem last year? I could have sworn in took him 3 weeks or so to get up to speed.

[caulfield12]

so is the life of a closer..

 

not unlike a field goal kicker...i went to Iowa, and I remember SD Chargers fans being PO'ed that Nate Kaeding missed a field goal in the playoffs, and it might have been the first one he's missed in a couple of months, but sports is all about "what have you done for me lately?"

[retro1983hat]

Jenks speed is down, no doubt about it. But he didn't locate the curve, that's why he got beat last night.

[SoxFan562004]

I think the last 2 years Jenks velocity has built up throughout the year, so we'll see where he's at later. IMO yesterday was lost based on bad pitch selection. Walker fouled off a solid curveball, and instead of climbing the ladder with the FB (Walker, if memory serves me right, has a high K rate) he went after him with another curve, and Walker made a great swing on it.

[WilliamTell]

I'm not too worried, but if I see a few 91 mph fastballs I'm going to start getting worried.

[Balta1701]

Didn't Jenks have this same problem last year? I could have sworn in took him 3 weeks or so to get up to speed.

Yes, Bobby did start off the season throwing with lowered velocity last season, especially in Spring Training. However, I'm going to have to join the "I'm concerned" group on this one, because there's a major difference from last year.

 

Last year, Bobby started off the season peaking at around 95-96 IIRC. This year, he's peaking at 93, and regularly between 90 and 92. For Bobby, that is an absolutely huge difference, and I'll tell you why; it makes his curve ball hittable. His curve ball comes in from 86-89 or so. If bobby's throwing 95+, then his curve is nearly impossible to hit because a batter needs to be ready for the fastball. But if his fastball is 90-93, then a batter can wait back confident they can foul off the fastball if Bobby Throws that while being ready to hit the curve ball hard. Exactly what Todd Walker did last night.

 

Bobby is simply not even where he was at the start of last season. Last season, Bobby was down about 2-4 mph from where he was in late 05 for the whole season. When you're throwing 98+, that's not a horrendous loss, because you're still throwing 98. When you lose another 5 mph on top of that though, then you're really in trouble. That's Freddy Garcia territory.

 

Bobby Jenks is not going to be a dominant pitcher if he can't throw mid to upper 90's. Plain and simple. So yes, I'm concerned. We can't wait a month for him to find his fastball, because it'll be a turkey shoot with him for that month, and that can cost us a lot of games.

[TitoMB345]

Jenks is definitely a problem. His velocity has Freddy'd and I can't figure it out. What is going on with him?