Bobby Jenks

[fathom]

I think the last 2 years Jenks velocity has built up throughout the year, so we'll see where he's at later. IMO yesterday was lost based on bad pitch selection. Walker fouled off a solid curveball, and instead of climbing the ladder with the FB (Walker, if memory serves me right, has a high K rate) he went after him with another curve, and Walker made a great swing on it.

 

Walker is a great contact hitter, and it was blatantly obvious on the pitch before his hit that he was sitting back on the curve.

[southsider2k5]

I am concerned, but not quite sure what to think. Part of me wonders what his weight loss program was like, and if it cost him either flexibility or strength (or both). If done wrong, a diet can do more harm than good.

[Balta1701]

Walker is a great contact hitter, and it was blatantly obvious on the pitch before his hit that he was sitting back on the curve.

If Bobby had his good fastball, Walker could have been trying to sit back on the curve and still probably would have made an out, because almost no one can sit back on a guy throwing 98. No matter how hard they try.

[fathom]

I am concerned, but not quite sure what to think. Part of me wonders what his weight loss program was like, and if it cost him either flexibility or strength (or both). If done wrong, a diet can do more harm than good.

 

I don't think Jenks looks any slimmer though.

[BearSox]

If Bobby can't hit in at least the high 90's come May, then there should be a ton of concern. His stuff isn't good enough where he can get away with a 94 mph fastball.

 

Also, just to let everyone know, I wanted Thornton to get the save oppurtunity last night. I wanted him in to turn around Bradley, hopefully handle Pizza, and then get Chavez. But that was just me.

[Dick Allen]

I am concerned, but not quite sure what to think. Part of me wonders what his weight loss program was like, and if it cost him either flexibility or strength (or both). If done wrong, a diet can do more harm than good.

If Jenks really did lose 30 lbs. it looks like he found at least most of it. The pictures at the beginning of spring training did make him appear slimmer, but I now see no difference. I think there has to be concern considering the way he finished up the season last year, and he still is topping out at 93 or 94 and not hitting that most of the time. He reminds me of Bob James, a guy who threw very hard, took no care of himself and was gone quickly. Jenks most likely doesn't have a long career.

[Rex Kickass]

I seem to recall his velocity was in this range last April too. He wasn't hitting his spots last night - got up there in pitch count and made it a real problem for himself on there.

 

He threw 30 pitches last night, right?

[RockRaines]

OMG a closer blew a save OMG!!!!!!!!!!

[fathom]

OMG a closer blew a save OMG!!!!!!!!!!

 

No one cares that he blew a save. It's the massive drop in velocity. It's not time to panic yet, but we need him to get back above 95 mph in order to be effective like he was in the first half of last year.

[RockRaines]

No one cares that he blew a save. It's the massive drop in velocity. It's not time to panic yet, but we need him to get back above 95 mph in order to be effective like he was in the first half of last year.

EVERYONE cares he blew the save. This is soxtalk, he goes 1,2,3 nobody says a thing. This is his typical velocity in April, 90-92. I dont know how many more times he and the org needs to say it. Garland was sitting at 88 mph on his fastballl last night, how come nobody is talking about HIS drop.

[fathom]

EVERYONE cares he blew the save. This is soxtalk, he goes 1,2,3 nobody says a thing. This is his typical velocity in April, 90-92. I dont know how many more times he and the org needs to say it. Garland was sitting at 88 mph on his fastballl last night, how come nobody is talking about HIS drop.

 

Garland was the same velocity he was at last year. Jenks showed last year that he lost a lot of velocity during the 2nd half of last season, and he was not nearly as effective. Between the hip issue and complaining of tightness this ST, we're just worried that he won't stay healthy this year. Even before the runs scored, people were asking last night what happened to Jenks fastball.

[RockRaines]

Garland was the same velocity he was at last year. Jenks showed last year that he lost a lot of velocity during the 2nd half of last season, and he was not nearly as effective. Between the hip issue and complaining of tightness this ST, we're just worried that he won't stay healthy this year. Even before the runs scored, people were asking last night what happened to Jenks fastball.

Garland was at the same velocity he was at in April of last year. You can clearly see his velocity in 2005 and the end of 2006 ws higher. Just like Jenks gets in the heat.

[Balta1701]

EVERYONE cares he blew the save. This is soxtalk, he goes 1,2,3 nobody says a thing. This is his typical velocity in April, 90-92. I dont know how many more times he and the org needs to say it. Garland was sitting at 88 mph on his fastballl last night, how come nobody is talking about HIS drop.

I'm sorry, but my memory of last year disagrees. Last year he was throwing low-90's at the start of camp, and was around 95-96 by the start of the season. Quite a bit faster than he was throwing last night.

[witesoxfan]

EVERYONE cares he blew the save. This is soxtalk, he goes 1,2,3 nobody says a thing. This is his typical velocity in April, 90-92. I dont know how many more times he and the org needs to say it. Garland was sitting at 88 mph on his fastballl last night, how come nobody is talking about HIS drop.

 

because

 

1. Garland looked good

2. Garland's game doesn't rely almost entirely upon his velocity

3. Garland might actually be better with a little less velocity

 

and in case you hadn't noticed, kudos do go out to those that perform well. It's much easier to talk about worry than it is comfort.

[BearSox]

topping out at 91 today... got a ton of help by the Athletics' hitters because they were chasing a lot of bad pitches...

[caulfield12]

topping out at 91 today... got a ton of help by the Athletics' hitters because they were chasing a lot of bad pitches...

 

On the Comcast feed, he was 91-93. I think he might have thrown one at 89 again, but it might have been a cutter instead of a straight fastball.

[Chisoxfn]

Garland was at the same velocity he was at in April of last year. You can clearly see his velocity in 2005 and the end of 2006 ws higher. Just like Jenks gets in the heat.

Exactly. Jenks is throwing as hard, if not harder at this stage of the season this season as he was last year so I don't get the concern. It should also be noted that he threw a very similar velocity when he first joined the organization down in AA during the 05 season (although at the time I know some people may have attributed that to him having to build up his strength after missing the prior season with arm problems but it could actually be that he's the type of guy that takes a bit longer to build his arm strength).

 

His command of both his heater and breaking ball have been far better. I just don't see why people are always jumping off a bridge. Everything is relative and I've been very pleased with the start of this season (considering the tough schedule). The club should probably have two more wins (the game they blew against the Tribe and last nights game) but I expect the team to learn from those mistakes.

[Harry Chappas]

I wish radar guns were only for use by scouts.

[BearSox]

I wish radar guns were only for use by scouts.

why? Even if there were no radar guns, almost any baseball fan would be able to tell that Jenks hasn't even sniffed 100 this year, and that his velocity is very questionable.

[RockRaines]

On the Comcast feed, he was 91-93. I think he might have thrown one at 89 again, but it might have been a cutter instead of a straight fastball.

He's been throwing about 75 percent cutters over his straight 4 seemer.

 

because

 

1. Garland looked good

2. Garland's game doesn't rely almost entirely upon his velocity

3. Garland might actually be better with a little less velocity

 

and in case you hadn't noticed, kudos do go out to those that perform well. It's much easier to talk about worry than it is comfort.

Jenks has MUCH better stuff than Garland. Now that he has control of more than 2 pitches, he doesnt need to rely on 100 mph heat. He has a cutter, slider, change, curve, backup slider, and a little sinker.

[witesoxfan]

Jenks has MUCH better stuff than Garland. Now that he has control of more than 2 pitches, he doesnt need to rely on 100 mph heat. He has a cutter, slider, change, curve, backup slider, and a little sinker.

 

Yeah, I realize Jenks has better stuff. He also has a screw in his elbow, and a more violent delivery.

 

Without a good fastball - ie 94-97 - Jenks will never be 100% effective, regardless of secondary stuff.

[SoxAce]

Without a good fastball - ie 94-97 - Jenks will never be 100% effective, regardless of secondary stuff.

 

It's rare that we disagree, but I have to disagree with you completely wite.

[jphat007]

Yeah, I realize Jenks has better stuff. He also has a screw in his elbow, and a more violent delivery.

 

Without a good fastball - ie 94-97 - Jenks will never be 100% effective, regardless of secondary stuff.

 

Depends what you call 100% effective. His cutter can be devastating with a fastball around 92-93 and the awesome curve. If he can throw strikes he can be a great pitcher. With command, and adding in a 97mph, he can be darn near incredible. He's gotta have that command, and that's not just about throwing strikes.

 

And I imagine we'll see him back above 95 in a month or so. Maybe a little less. Just like last year. I'm glad he isn't going out and trying to overthrow to get there, however.

Edited April 12, 2007 by jphat007

[Dick Allen]

I have the feeling if Jenks threw 91 when the Angels waived him, KW probably wouldn't have claimed him. I couldn't care less what his velocity is as long as he gets outs, its just that there isn't much history to suggest closers that lose 7-8 mph off their fastballs can remain effective. Maybe he's the exception. I wish people would get off the "just like last year" with him argument. Does that mean his second half will be "just like last year"? It wasn't pretty. He needs to be better than last year when he came into camp woefully out of shape.

[witesoxfan]

100% effective is the dominance Bobby is capable of. He has the stuff to be a top 3 closer in baseball. As of right now, he'll be a satisfactory closer and not much more. Without that fastball, he loses consistency, and last night is the perfect example of that. He did that multiple times last year too. The Cleveland game rings vividly in my mind - wasn't it like 4 straight doubles or something ridiculous like that?

 

With a fastball around 89-92, he'll be bad, with no further explanation really needed

With a fastball around 92-95, he'll be 3.50, 1.30, and a good K rate

With a fastball around 94-97, he'll be 2.70, 1.15, and a great K rate

With a fastball around 96-100, he'll be almost untouchable, only being hit on fastballs left low in the zone.

 

That last line is 100%, and that's pretty much what he was down the stretch in 2005. A pitch Boone hit that year was a fastball low (though I seem to recall Vizcaino having a good piece of hitting on the fastball up in game 2).