very interesting stat

[Hideaway Lights]

after Jose's 1+ inning blowup on opening day, the white sox have a combined ERA of 3.05 in the subsequent 70.2 innings

 

wow!!!!! I sure like that from our pitching staff a hell of a lot more than what we got last year...

 

Edited April 12, 2007 by Hideaway Lights

[RME JICO]

How about:

 

In 5 bad innings they let up a total of 19 runs. (34.20 ERA)

 

In the other 67 innings they let up only 13 runs. (1.74 ERA)

[Reddy]

How about:

 

In 5 bad innings they let up a total of 19 runs. (34.20 ERA)

 

In the other 67 innings they let up only 13 runs. (1.74 ERA)

 

i like this stat even better!

[beautox]

i like this stat even better!

+1

 

[RockRaines]

In case you were wondering, after ozzie went on a tirade, the pitching has been lights out.

[Hideaway Lights]

How about:

 

In 5 bad innings they let up a total of 19 runs. (34.20 ERA)

 

In the other 67 innings they let up only 13 runs. (1.74 ERA)

 

bad innings are gonna happen every so often, that's just baseball. However, Jose's opening day 1 inning fiasco has never happened before, and he bounced back so well it seems like it's not likely to happen again, and now that we've heard that he may have been served divorce papers 15 minutes before he took the bump that day, it seems like we can almost throw that inning out the window as completely anomylous.

[NorthSideSox72]

In case you were wondering, after ozzie went on a tirade, the pitching has been lights out.

Yes, but you know how this works. We'll hear about Ozzie's screw-ups every day (and I certainly agree he has plenty of them), but rarely does anyone acknowledge the positives he brings to the table.

[RockRaines]

Yes, but you know how this works. We'll hear about Ozzie's screw-ups every day (and I certainly agree he has plenty of them), but rarely does anyone acknowledge the positives he brings to the table.

hopefully he says something that will get him fired.

[caulfield12]

bad innings are gonna happen every so often, that's just baseball. However, Jose's opening day 1 inning fiasco has never happened before, and he bounced back so well it seems like it's not likely to happen again, and now that we've heard that he may have been served divorce papers 15 minutes before he took the bump that day, it seems like we can almost throw that inning out the window as completely anomylous.

 

Not divorce papers, he was notified that day that there might be a case against him for smuggling, involving the $200,000 he paid "independent contractors" (being nice) to bring his family into the US from Cuba.

[RME JICO]

bad innings are gonna happen every so often, that's just baseball.

True, but 5 bad innings out of 72 is pretty good.

 

How about this one:

 

White Sox pitching has thrown 58 shutout innings out of 72 (81%). That means opponents have only scored in 14 innings, and five of those were big innings (3+ runs).

Edited April 12, 2007 by RME JICO

[Hideaway Lights]

Not divorce papers, he was notified that day that there might be a case against him for smuggling, involving the $200,000 he paid "independent contractors" (being nice) to bring his family into the US from Cuba.

 

Oh my bad, I heard it was divorce papers

[StrangeSox]

Oh my bad, I heard it was divorce papers

 

That was an unsubstantiated rumor floating around.

[Kalapse]

Yes, but you know how this works. We'll hear about Ozzie's screw-ups every day (and I certainly agree he has plenty of them), but rarely does anyone acknowledge the positives he brings to the table.

So must every thread turn into one of these? I'm just wondering how you're going to prove that Ozzie getting pissed off turned the pitching around after what 1.5 bad outings? Javy hits the mound and dominates, since then the starting pitching has been great, I'm curious as to how Ozzie doing a little screaming in the press had this major effect on the pitching when there really was no problem to begin with, seeing as how only 2 starters got to pitch substantial innings.

[RockRaines]

So must every thread turn into one of these? I'm just wondering how you're going to prove that Ozzie getting pissed off turned the pitching around after what 1.5 bad outings? Javy hits the mound and dominates, since then the starting pitching has been great, I'm curious as to how Ozzie doing a little screaming in the press had this major effect on the pitching when there really was no problem to begin with, seeing as how only 2 starters got to pitch substantial innings.

Pitchers pick up pace after Ozzie's tirade

 

April 12, 2007

 

OAKLAND, Calif. -- There was a method behind Ozzie Guillen's madness last week. Then again, there usually is.

 

But it was after only the second game of the season that the White Sox manager started up the bus and began throwing his pitchers under it.

 

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Upset with his pitching staff since the start of spring training -- especially after poor regular-season debuts by starters Jose Contreras and Jon Garland -- Guillen fired on the pitchers after an April 4 loss to the Cleveland Indians.

 

''I want a different attitude now,'' Guillen said. ''I'm not going to sit there and watch the same thing since March 1.''

 

Clearly, that message has been heard loud and clear.

 

After Mark Buehrle allowed three runs in seven innings Wednesday and the bullpen added two more scoreless innings, the Sox have allowed just 12 runs in 53 2/3 innings (2.01 ERA) since Guillen's tirade.

 

Sox starters have posted a 2.12 ERA in that span, while the relievers have a 1.83 ERA. Considering they combined to allow 20 runs on 26 hits in those first two games, that's quite an improvement.

 

''The way [Contreras] got knocked down [in the opener], it's like, whoa, wait a minute,'' Guillen said Wednesday. ''Then the next day Gar had one bad inning, all of a sudden they bang him pretty well. Like I told the guys, 'We're not that good. We have to push the button a little bit harder.'

 

''I was sending a message to the guys, not to mother[bleep] them, but, hey, I'm tired of that [bleep] because we didn't play well in spring training. I'm not going to carry this thing all the way through the season. I can't handle that.''

 

Guillen said he has spoken since to some of his pitchers one-on-one, making sure they understood his point.

 

''It wasn't a personal thing,'' Guillen said. ''I don't want to go to the game insecure as a manager, saying, 'Oh, my God, I hope we score 10.' I want to go there and believe, not get someone up in the third inning because I don't know if this guy is going to pitch well. I don't want to feel that way. They shouldn't, either.''

 

Joe Cowley

[StrangeSox]

"Oh s***, Ozzie's pissed! I better pitch better or he'll yell at me! Good thing I wasn't trying before, so now that he's yelled at me I can 'turn it on'!"

[Kalapse]

Only 2 starters had thrown, how can anyone even say the starting pitching was faltering? He went on a tirade after game 2, I just don't see how that allows for enough of a sample size to make an direct connection between the 2. But yeah, I guess if Joe Cowley says so then I should just assume that Vazquez would have s*** himself in his first outing had Ozzie not yelled at him 2 days prior.

[RockRaines]

"Oh s***, Ozzie's pissed! I better pitch better or he'll yell at me! Good thing I wasn't trying before, so now that he's yelled at me I can 'turn it on'!"

Yeah, when coaches yell or try and make players focus more, it usually has ZERO effect. Why even have managers?

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Only 2 starters had thrown, how can anyone even say the starting pitching was faltering? He went on a tirade after game 2, I just don't see how that allows for enough of a sample size to make an direct connection between the 2. But yeah, I guess if Joe Cowley says so then I should just assume that Vazquez would have s*** himself in his first outing had Ozzie not yelled at him 2 days prior.

 

Eh, they weren't exactly stellar in spring training either...

 

I'm not about to give Ozzie that much credit either but at least he was proactive.

[StrangeSox]

Eh, they weren't exactly stellar in spring training either...

 

I'm not about to give Ozzie that much credit either but at least he was proactive.

 

 

Agreed. He did the right thing there and it probably did help.

 

You just can't just say that his rant made them pitch better and give him all of the credit for the "turn around" after Contreras had mental distractions and Buerhle got injured early.

[RockRaines]

Agreed. He did the right thing there and it probably did help.

 

You just can't just say that his rant made them pitch better and give him all of the credit for the "turn around" after Contreras had mental distractions and Buerhle got injured early.

And the bullpen? Garland?

[Kalapse]

Eh, they weren't exactly stellar in spring training either...

 

I'm not about to give Ozzie that much credit either but at least he was proactive.

Yeah, it's cool and all that he's not going to sit back and watch s***ty outing after s***ty outing to start the year, I appreciate the fact that he did what he thought was necessary in order to prevent any further disappointment form his starting staff. But with that said I'm not about to credit him with turning around a starting staff that IMO was never even faltering to begin with.

 

And the bullpen? Garland?

2 games. 2 GAMES! Buehlre was still leaving pitches up in the first 2 innings of the 3rd game of the season too. That was after the rant. The bullpen wasn't bad at all in game 2 either. The only real problem was Sizemore hitting a good pitch out in the 7th accounting for an ER for Mac and 1 for Thor. That same game featured one of the best outings by a Sox reliever EVER.

[StrangeSox]

Small sample sizes and no control means that you can't really say for sure one way or the other.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Hitters really need the same rant too, by the way...

[NorthSideSox72]

So must every thread turn into one of these? I'm just wondering how you're going to prove that Ozzie getting pissed off turned the pitching around after what 1.5 bad outings? Javy hits the mound and dominates, since then the starting pitching has been great, I'm curious as to how Ozzie doing a little screaming in the press had this major effect on the pitching when there really was no problem to begin with, seeing as how only 2 starters got to pitch substantial innings.

Who knows? That's kind of my point. Every situation in baseball has some what-ifs attached. If those what-ifs are negative, and there can be any sort of connection made at all to managerial decisions, then Ozzie tends to get bashed for it. Here we have a situation where he did the right thing, and it may have had a positive result. Its just the extreme rarity around here that he would get some credit for that.

 

And no, not every thread needs to become that. If Ozzie screws up, that's what should be discussed. But when something positive changes in the attitude of the team, which it apparently has (and it wasn't just the 2 starters, or even just pitching necessarily), then it should be noted that perhaps Ozzie got the team back on track.

 

Part of the problem with evaluating managers is that the positives they bring are usually subtle, and not easily identified or quantified. But if they screw up, that's usually pretty apparent. Its the same with any manager in any business. So when stuff like this happens, yeah, I'll usually tend to give Ozzie some credit, even though his effect may have been very small or very large.

[Kalapse]

Who knows? That's kind of my point. Every situation in baseball has some what-ifs attached. If those what-ifs are negative, and there can be any sort of connection made at all to managerial decisions, then Ozzie tends to get bashed for it. Here we have a situation where he did the right thing, and it may have had a positive result. Its just the extreme rarity around here that he would get some credit for that.

 

And no, not every thread needs to become that. If Ozzie screws up, that's what should be discussed. But when something positive changes in the attitude of the team, which it apparently has (and it wasn't just the 2 starters, or even just pitching necessarily), then it should be noted that perhaps Ozzie got the team back on track.

 

Part of the problem with evaluating managers is that the positives they bring are usually subtle, and not easily identified or quantified. But if they screw up, that's usually pretty apparent. Its the same with any manager in any business. So when stuff like this happens, yeah, I'll usually tend to give Ozzie some credit, even though his effect may have been very small or very large.

Why didn't you start a thread about Ozzie's tirade then? You can say he gets no credit but I'm sure if you started a thread praising Ozzie for getting the Starting Pitching going the majority of the board would have been right with you in heaping praise upon him. Sometimes you have to take the initiative, you better believe if Ozzie f***s up someone is going to be right there to b**** about it within a few minutes of the incident so when he does something positive like this the exact same should be done. Make an attempt to counteract the negative discussion with some positive news.