RockRaines Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 12:54 PM) Exactly. Myself, more worried about Crede and AJP. Crede has zero XBH. Thats very puzzling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 12:50 PM) 9th inning or later And how many chances has he had to win a game with the Sox 9th inning or later? He had all of 64 at-bats in "close and late" situations last season. In those he had a .188 BA, but .878 OPS with 5 HRs and 23 walks. I'm guessing teams don't really go after Thome in those situations unless they have a LHP facing him. Anyway, I agree that Thome is the least of the Sox concerns on offense right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 12:59 PM) That's the funny part. You can't seem to have a differing opinion without it being blown up into something it is not. I was one who loved the deal to get Thome, and the fact that it meant Frank was moving on. I still think Thome is a great player, and will have a great year, he just hasn't done anything big so far, but really no one on the offensive side of the game has been clutch except for Uribe. Like having the opinion that Ozzie is not that great of an in-game manager who holds grudges? Because when you have that opinion, you just clearly hate him blindly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 PK and JD will be fine. I'm decently confident that AJ will at least be ok this season with the bat, I honestly don't have a ton of faith in Joe or the top of the order. Also, as good as Juan is hitting right now, we all know he is going to go through his streaks, be it up or down. As far as our offense, I basically have confidence in 3-5 and Iguchi, besides that, I'm just not sure what to expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 01:28 PM) Most of us care about Brian because we believe he is the best option we have to play center and he's got completely raw deal here. Simple enough? What do you know? You're just a kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 05:52 PM) Who gives a s***? Worry about someone who didnt have an OPS of 1.014 last season, or while "struggling" .984 this year... All I'm saying is that Thome hasn't delivered in the last inning of games since he's been here. I think that's why some people have considered him to not be clutch. If you saw what I said, you would know I said he's the least of our worries right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balance Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 12:57 PM) Crede has zero XBH. Thats very puzzling. I agree. It is very puzzlisdffg;nwse Sorry. It's hard to type while looking at RockRaines' new avatar.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 QUOTE(quickman @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 10:15 AM) Who the hell cares about Brian Andersen. He is nothing, he will not get us to the playoffs nor might he be anything other than what he is. I know people like him because he is young, a surfer dude, who acts kool, but the guy is a non entity. Really who cares. Move on he is a fringe player. did you forget to put on your lollerskatez when you posted this? honestly i laughed out loud when i read "surfer dude" haha good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 12:24 PM) So runs late in the game mean more than runs early in the game? Heh -- ya learn something new every day! +1 and RBI is and RBI doesn't matter if it was early or late, same as a win is a win, they all = the same at the end of the day, production is production. a win against Santana is the same against Ponson, it seems like more, but its just a moral victory. People who complain about production and call for clutch boggle my mind. Yes i think clutch exists but for example lets say thome hits a 3run bomb in the first and we goto 9th down by one, and he strikes out, he was the one who put us in a position to have a "clutch" AB, should we ask more from him even though he is the one that put us in a position to be "clutch"?. in '06 thome put up this line with RISP .336/.468/.690 1.158OPS Men On, 2 out .303/.431/.629 1.060OPS I'd call that getting it done, what more do you want from the guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 QUOTE(Balance @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 01:59 PM) I agree. It is very puzzlisdffg;nwse Sorry. It's hard to type while looking at RockRaines' new avatar.... Hahaha, i figured it was time for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 11:56 AM) All I'm saying is that Thome hasn't delivered in the last inning of games since he's been here. I think that's why some people have considered him to not be clutch. If you saw what I said, you would know I said he's the least of our worries right now. I'm not sure it was the 9th inning (I think it was the 8th in fact) but there was the ball he destroyed in Pittsburgh last year to tie the game late. Anywho...not everyone on a team needs to hit .500 after the 8th inning for that team to be successful. It'd be nice to get some hits before the 7th out of the rest of the guys. The way we've been pitching, a few hits early and we don't even need the clutch hits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 QUOTE(quickman @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 08:15 AM) Who the hell cares about Brian Andersen. He is nothing, he will not get us to the playoffs nor might he be anything other than what he is. I know people like him because he is young, a surfer dude, who acts kool, but the guy is a non entity. Really who cares. Move on he is a fringe player. QUOTE(RockRaines @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 12:56 PM) Hahaha, i figured it was time for a change. now, if you could just get these two frauleins to make out like the other ladies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 08:50 PM) I'm not sure it was the 9th inning (I think it was the 8th in fact) but there was the ball he destroyed in Pittsburgh last year to tie the game late. Anywho...not everyone on a team needs to hit .500 after the 8th inning for that team to be successful. It'd be nice to get some hits before the 7th out of the rest of the guys. The way we've been pitching, a few hits early and we don't even need the clutch hits. Yep, 8th inning against our friend Bobby Hernandez. Again, all I'm saying is that the reason some people perceive Thome as not being clutch is due to not doing any damage in the 9th inning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 01:56 PM) All I'm saying is that Thome hasn't delivered in the last inning of games since he's been here. I think that's why some people have considered him to not be clutch. If you saw what I said, you would know I said he's the least of our worries right now. He delivered in Cleveland, just not a run. As Kalapse eluded to, getting on base in a 1 run game is pretty big. It's not ridiculously huge, but it's big. As for the rest of your statement, you are pretty much spot on, and I didn't realize how close you really were. Last year, in the 9th inning, he had a .167/.405/.267/.672 split with 1 homer and 4 RBI in 42 PAs (that is 12 walks, so it's partly because he wasn't getting anything to hit too), and his splits in extras were even worse, .125/.300/.250/.550 with no RBI at all. I don't know when his homer was, but that's far fewer than he had in any other inning throughout the course of the game. However, he was absolutely money in the 8th, so if people are arguing that he's not clutch, they are absolutely wrong. Splits of .306/.443/.857/1.300 with 8 homers, 14 RBI, and 12 walks in 61 PAs...yeah, he's clutch, he just hasn't done really anything in the 9th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 (edited) Most people forget that BA was rated the #2 White Sox prospect(behind Jenks who shouldn't have counted) and the #51 prospect in baseball last year. He wasn't handled right last year either. Just because he has a bad season playing twice a week doesn't mean he is a bust. Alex Gordon is hitting around .100 right now and Jeremy Bonderman lost 19 games his rookie year. Edited April 16, 2007 by WhiteSoxfan1986 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 04:09 PM) Most people forget that BA was rated the #2 White Sox prospect(behind Jenks who shouldn't have counted) and the #51 prospect in baseball last year. He wasn't handled right last year either. Just because he has a bad season playing twice a week doesn't mean he is a bust. Alex Gordon is hitting around .100 right now and Jeremy Bonderman lost 19 games his rookie year. The thing about that argument is that those teams were not expected to nor did they/will they really compete for making the playoffs and beyond. That's the difference. Sox have to balance using him with expected struggles and how it can effect games. Since we are in a position to compete, are we better off with Erstad or ba? Debatable. I'm all for whoever gives us the best chance to succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandy125 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 12:17 PM) You just seemed to quantify a 'good hitter' as someone who gets big hits late in games and since Pods and Uribe are supposedly the only 'good hitters' right now I just assumed that Pods had some big moments this year that I don't remember. How about this game: April 9, 2007 Pods hit a go ahead HR in the 5th and scored an insurance run in the 8th. He was the only one with a 2-out RBI in that game. That was against OAK of all teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tealeafreaderii Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 04:06 PM) He delivered in Cleveland, just not a run. As Kalapse eluded to, getting on base in a 1 run game is pretty big. It's not ridiculously huge, but it's big. As for the rest of your statement, you are pretty much spot on, and I didn't realize how close you really were. Last year, in the 9th inning, he had a .167/.405/.267/.672 split with 1 homer and 4 RBI in 42 PAs (that is 12 walks, so it's partly because he wasn't getting anything to hit too), and his splits in extras were even worse, .125/.300/.250/.550 with no RBI at all. I don't know when his homer was, but that's far fewer than he had in any other inning throughout the course of the game. However, he was absolutely money in the 8th, so if people are arguing that he's not clutch, they are absolutely wrong. Splits of .306/.443/.857/1.300 with 8 homers, 14 RBI, and 12 walks in 61 PAs...yeah, he's clutch, he just hasn't done really anything in the 9th. Look I have nothing against Thome and I don't want to pile on one of the few guys contributing on the offensive side. But in Cleaveland he hit right into the shift and Barfield made a bad throw. He hustled and made a good play... but I wouldn't call it "clutchness". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 11:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> When has he gotten a big hit late in a game this year? The only thing I can find is the run scoring single in Oakland. Remind me who had the only hit in yesterday's 9th inning. Is it Thome's fault he doesn't get anything to hit in the late inning especially with a base open? If you were a pitcher in a close game and a hitter like Thome came to bat, would you give him anything close to hit? Didn't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 04:19 PM) The thing about that argument is that those teams were not expected to nor did they/will they really compete for making the playoffs and beyond. That's the difference. My point was that just because you suck your rookie year doesn't mean you will suck your whole career. Edited April 16, 2007 by WhiteSoxfan1986 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 12:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thome has been coming on ok of late. His RBI opps havent been many, but he hasnt capitalized on too many of them. Either way the middle needs to be more productive. ESPECIALLY Joe (0 xbh) Crede RISP: .400/.571/1.000/1.571 7 PA, 5 BA, 4 RBI's Quit making stuff up. QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 12:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> During his entire time with the Sox, I don't recall him doing any damage in the 9th inning or later in a game. That because pitchers are scared s***less to face him. It's like Sosa or Bonds in their juiced prime. Why would you give anything to Thome to hit in a close game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 04:50 PM) RISP: .400/.571/1.000/1.571 7 PA, 5 BA, 4 RBI's Quit making stuff up. Wow, what did I make up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 04:45 PM) My point was that just because you suck your rookie year doesn't mean you will suck your whole career. The opposite point can be made as well since there are more cases of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wow, what did I make up? Thome has been coming on ok of late. His RBI opps havent been many, but he hasnt capitalized on too many of them He almost has as many RBI's as at-bats. He has been on base more than half the times he came to the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Apr 16, 2007 -> 05:00 PM) Thome has been coming on ok of late. His RBI opps havent been many, but he hasnt capitalized on too many of them He almost has as many RBI's as at-bats. He has been on base more than half the times he came to the plate. Im sorry my generalization didnt prove true in the 5 RBI chances he has had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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