Kenny is a funny guy

[Kalapse]

i dont think either of those two guys are the answer at the two hole and i don't want to see iguchi leading off for some reason iguchi forgot how to bunt and i dont want my top two guys in the order being unable to lay a damn bunt down

Yeah because Podsednik was a worldbeater when it came time to get a bunt down.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Yeah because Podsednik was a worldbeater when it came time to get a bunt down.

never said he was but i guarantee hes a better bunter than nixon and dellucci and better than what i have seen out of iguchi over the two years

 

plus you forgot to mention that pods is actually a base stealing threat unlike those other guys

[StrangeSox]

never said he was but i guarantee hes a better bunter than nixon and dellucci and better than what i have seen out of iguchi over the two years

 

plus you forgot to mention that pods is actually a base stealing threat unlike those other guys

 

he wasn't for a good part of last year. He was getting caught stealing an awful lot.

 

We'll see how fast he is after coming back from yet another groin injury.

[Balta1701]

he wasn't for a good part of last year. He was getting caught stealing an awful lot.

 

We'll see how fast he is after coming back from yet another groin injury.

He's already been thrown out by Victor Martinez this season.

[southsider2k5]

If KW is willing to pay the price (which I highly doubt he is) a trade involving a soon to be free agent Ichiro is not totally out of the question. You're not exactly dealing with a genius in Seattle.

And as for KW's question, that was his job this offseason, to find a REAL leadoff hitter and he f***ed that up. It's his own fault that he's backed into a corner yet again.

 

 

he's gonna be a free-agent at the end of the year. Seattle might dump at all-star break when there 13 games under .500

 

I was thinking back at what teams were asking for their departing top line free agents over the last couple of years, and I really don't know about that. It would be awesome to get him, but I really don't think we have a chance, unless Tadahito can sell the Sox better than we ever though.

[Damen]

He's already been thrown out by Victor Martinez this season.

 

Twice.

[southsider2k5]

He's already been thrown out by Victor Martinez this season.

 

twice, right?

[southsider2k5]

I read a little blurb a while back about Ichiro possibly going to Boston, but the rumor being shot down because between Dice-K and Ichiro, neither one of them wanted to play 2nd fiddle to each other.

 

The reason I say that is, while Gooch isn't a major star by any means, if the Sox did infact land Ichiro, maybe it makes Tad want to leave.... Just a thought.

 

Judging by the way Tada handled the two hole as a hitter, I don't believe ego is something that is a problem with him. He sacrficed statistics for two years to try to make his team win, and I don't think playing second fiddle to Irchiro would bother him at all.

[iamshack]

Or he could have thought outside the box, instead of targeting the big name high priced free agent leadoff men. He went with his bad, oft-injured in house option which was never going to work, there were a number of high OBP, lower speed leadoff type players available this offseason. You don't need to overpay for high SB, low SB% slap hitters when you can instead target guys who are simply going to get on base for you and now he has neither.

 

The Sox still have a leadoff type hitter on the roster though he'll never be used in that role, in Iguchi.

 

Kalapse, you're operating under the premise that KW is the manager of this ballclub, and not Ozzie. Because of his NL days, whether it be correct or not (you don't need to tell me what you think), Ozzie wants a speedy, more traditional lead-off man. With those parameters in mind, the options on the trade market and the free agent market were few and far between for Kenny. And you can bet he kicked the tires on Carl Crawford and Ichiro, believe me.

[Kalapse]

Kalapse, you're operating under the premise that KW is the manager of this ballclub, and not Ozzie. Because of his NL days, whether it be correct or not (you don't need to tell me what you think), Ozzie wants a speedy, more traditional lead-off man. With those parameters in mind, the options on the trade market and the free agent market were few and far between for Kenny. And you can bet he kicked the tires on Carl Crawford and Ichiro, believe me.

That's still flawed logic though, even if Ozzie wants a speedy leadoff guy he has a player pretty close to that in Iguchi. But even on top of that, Oz needs to realize that players like that don't come cheaply and the one in house option they had (pods) was not a very good bet to give you much this season. At some point in his career Ozzie is going to have to think outside the box if he wants to win again because if we are to assume that he was demanding a speedy player atop his order this season he was hurting the team in doing so.

 

It is kind of funny though, Oz wants a speed guy to lead his lineup instead of a high OBP type player and now do to this stubbornness he has neither.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Apr 19, 2007 -> 11:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If KW is willing to pay the price (which I highly doubt he is) a trade involving a soon to be free agent Ichiro is not totally out of the question. You're not exactly dealing with a genius in Seattle.

 

 

And as for KW's question, that was his job this offseason, to find a REAL leadoff hitter and he f***ed that up. It's his own fault that he's backed into a corner yet again.

 

Ok, who was he supposed to acquire? How did he f*** it up? You saw what Pierre and Roberts received. WOuld you pay that for those guys? I would be pissed if we signed either of those chumps to those contracts. So please, tell me, who was available, and who were we supposed to get?

[Kalapse]

Ok, who was he supposed to acquire? How did he f*** it up? You saw what Pierre and Roberts received. WOuld you pay that for those guys? I would be pissed if we signed either of those chumps to those contracts. So please, tell me, who was available, and who were we supposed to get?

You could always read the rest of the thread instead of replying to a post that was made 5 hours ago.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Apr 19, 2007 -> 01:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's still flawed logic though, even if Ozzie wants a speedy leadoff guy he has a player pretty close to that in Iguchi. But even on top of that, Oz needs to realize that players like that don't come cheaply and the one in house option they had (pods) was not a very good bet to give you much this season. At some point in his career Ozzie is going to have to think outside the box if he wants to win again because if we are to assume that he was demanding a speedy player atop his order this season he was hurting the team in doing so.

 

It is kind of funny though, Oz wants a speed guy to lead his lineup instead of a high OBP type player and now do to this stubbornness he has neither.

 

Since when is Iguchi speedy or high OBP? I don't get it.

 

Plus, I read the whole thing, and you never mentioned who you wanted. Nixon and Delluci is better than what we have now or are they the same? You would pay more for the same thing we already have? Please give some better ideas than that and don't just say someone did a horrible job but then have no solution or other option. The only way he did a horrible job is if he had another better option and didn't get it done, which I can't see.

 

However, I will give you my solution. Trade prospects to TB for Baldelli - it should be reasonable. Then go out and try to get Adam Dunn from Cincy. I am sure we can strike a deal in both cases and it would help our offense tremendously. Adam Dunn should be a salary dump for the Reds, but I have no idea what they need. We could then start an outfield of Dunn in LF, Baldelli in CF, and Dye in RF and have a much better lineup:

 

CF Baldelli Righty

2B Iguchi Righty

DH Thome Lety

1B Konerko Righty

RF Dye Righty

LF Dunn Lefty

3B Crede Righty

C Pierzynski Lefty

SS Uribe Righty

 

You then have Ozuna, Pods, Erstad, Mack, Cintron, and Hall on the bench. Send BA down to get him some consistent playing time. Maybe release Pods instear. Hell, I don't care.

 

GET ER DONE!

Edited April 19, 2007 by southsideirish

[Kalapse]

Since when is Iguchi speedy or high OBP? I don't get it.

 

Plus, I read the whole thing, and you never mentioned who you wanted. Nixon and Delluci is better than what we have now or are they the same? You would pay more for the same thing we already have? Please give some better ideas than that and don't just say someone did a horrible job but then have no solution or other option. The only way he did a horrible job is if he had another better option and didn't get it done, which I can't see.

What exactly is wrong with David Dellucci? He's a high OBP hitter who gets out of the box quick with decent speed, he would have to be platooned but the guy stays healthy and produces. That is better than anything this team has right now. And Trot Nixon in LF with Iguchi leading off would be far more potent an offensive punch than anything the Sox currently have.

 

Iguchi is a solid .350 OBP guy with good speed, which of those 2 is incorrect? His extra base hits could also be incredibly valuable out of the leadoff spot, you don't have to steal second if you're already there. Plus he still has some decent upside considering the tools he displayed in Japan. I'd take a .350-.360 OBP and 20 SB at a high success rate from Iguchi than any of the other options on this club.

 

Iguchi, Mackowiak, Thome, Konerko, Dye, Crede, Pierzynski, Uribe, Anderson would be a nice lineup.

 

There's others but I don't care much to continue with this, since the Sox do have a pretty decent in house option right now but if you'd like you can do a quick google search of my posts and I'm sure you'd find some pretty good names from the countless threads we had on this subject over the offseason.

[SoxFanForever]

Since when is Iguchi speedy or high OBP? I don't get it.

 

Plus, I read the whole thing, and you never mentioned who you wanted. Nixon and Delluci is better than what we have now or are they the same? You would pay more for the same thing we already have? Please give some better ideas than that and don't just say someone did a horrible job but then have no solution or other option. The only way he did a horrible job is if he had another better option and didn't get it done, which I can't see.

In Iguchi's first two years in the league his OBP was .342 and .352. Pods was .351 and .330 in those two years. Iguchi can get on base just as much, if not more than Pods. In the last two seasons Pods SB% has been 71% and 67%. Iguchi's is 75% and 68% (albeit he attempted less bags). Iguchi can perform just as good of a job if not better than what Pods has given us the last two years. Also, he doesn't hurt his groin constantly.

[witesoxfan]

Since when is Iguchi speedy or high OBP? I don't get it.

 

Plus, I read the whole thing, and you never mentioned who you wanted. Nixon and Delluci is better than what we have now or are they the same? You would pay more for the same thing we already have? Please give some better ideas than that and don't just say someone did a horrible job but then have no solution or other option. The only way he did a horrible job is if he had another better option and didn't get it done, which I can't see.

 

You know, at some point, it does become about the numbers, and you clearly aren't looking at them at all.

 

Nixon and Dellucci are the same thing as the Sox already have? No, you're being ignorant.

[Kalapse]

In Iguchi's first two years in the league his OBP was .342 and .352. Pods was .351 and .330 in those two years. Iguchi can get on base just as much, if not more than Pods. In the last two seasons Pods SB% has been 71% and 67%. Iguchi's is 75% and 68% (albeit he attempted less bags). Iguchi can perform just as good of a job if not better than what Pods has given us the last two years. Also, he doesn't hurt his groin constantly.

You're also adding about .100 points of SLG% with Iguchi which becomes quite valuable in the leadoff spot.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(SoxFanForever @ Apr 19, 2007 -> 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In Iguchi's first two years in the league his OBP was .342 and .352. Pods was .351 and .330 in those two years. Iguchi can get on base just as much, if not more than Pods. In the last two seasons Pods SB% has been 71% and 67%. Iguchi's is 75% and 68% (albeit he attempted less bags). Iguchi can perform just as good of a job if not better than what Pods has given us the last two years. Also, he doesn't hurt his groin constantly.

 

Who said Pods was a high OBP guy? I highly doubt Iguchi would be a good leadoff man. In fact I don't believe he can hit anywhere else in the lineup besides #2. He hasn't proven that he can.

[SoxFanForever]

You're also adding about .100 points of SLG% with Iguchi which becomes quite valuable in the leadoff spot.

He is also a .288 hitter in his first 2+ years with RISP as well as a .302 hitter with RISP and 2 outs. Pods over that same stretch is a .247 hitter with RISP and a .248 hitter with RISP and 2 out.

[NorthSideSox72]

Who said Pods was a high OBP guy? I highly doubt Iguchi would be a good leadoff man. In fact I don't believe he can hit anywhere else in the lineup besides #2. He hasn't proven that he can.

What? All he has to do is hit exactly like he does in the 2-slot and he'll be a better leadoff man than Pods.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Apr 19, 2007 -> 05:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know, at some point, it does become about the numbers, and you clearly aren't looking at them at all.

 

Nixon and Dellucci are the same thing as the Sox already have? No, you're being ignorant.

 

They are better? How so? Dellucci has an on-base percentage of .350 or better twice in the last 6 years. His career batting average is .262. He had one season where he hit 29 home runs, but hasn't ever come close to that before. You are overvaluing him I believe. Nixon is always hurt and can't hit lefthanders. How exactly are they better? Maybe the grass is always greener for you.

 

 

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 19, 2007 -> 05:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What? All he has to do is hit exactly like he does in the 2-slot and he'll be a better leadoff man than Pods.

 

That is all he has to do in the 8-slot and he will be better as well. However, he hasn't. The only slot he has ever hit well in is the #2 slot.

 

 

QUOTE(SoxFanForever @ Apr 19, 2007 -> 05:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He is also a .288 hitter in his first 2+ years with RISP as well as a .302 hitter with RISP and 2 outs. Pods over that same stretch is a .247 hitter with RISP and a .248 hitter with RISP and 2 out.

 

Iguchi wasn't very good with RISP his rookie season, however he was phenomenal his 2nd year. But, if this is the case, wouldn't you want him in a run producing position instead of a leadoff position?

Edited April 19, 2007 by southsideirish

[NorthSideSox72]

That is all he has to do in the 8-slot and he will be better as well. However, he hasn't. The only slot he has ever hit well in is the #2 slot.

No, he was moved down specifically to be given the chance to hit for more power and drive the ball more. Going from 2 to 1 is nothing of that sort.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Apr 19, 2007 -> 05:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What exactly is wrong with David Dellucci? He's a high OBP hitter who gets out of the box quick with decent speed, he would have to be platooned but the guy stays healthy and produces. That is better than anything this team has right now. And Trot Nixon in LF with Iguchi leading off would be far more potent an offensive punch than anything the Sox currently have.

 

Iguchi is a solid .350 OBP guy with good speed, which of those 2 is incorrect? His extra base hits could also be incredibly valuable out of the leadoff spot, you don't have to steal second if you're already there. Plus he still has some decent upside considering the tools he displayed in Japan. I'd take a .350-.360 OBP and 20 SB at a high success rate from Iguchi than any of the other options on this club.

 

Iguchi, Mackowiak, Thome, Konerko, Dye, Crede, Pierzynski, Uribe, Anderson would be a nice lineup.

 

There's others but I don't care much to continue with this, since the Sox do have a pretty decent in house option right now but if you'd like you can do a quick google search of my posts and I'm sure you'd find some pretty good names from the countless threads we had on this subject over the offseason.

 

His OBP in 2005 was .342, in 2006 .352, this year .317. .350 OBP would be incorrect. He has decent speed, not good, decent. You would be incorrect. Google search this homie. If you can't answer with those names now then f*** it. I gave you the opportunity to back it up. You can't or decide not to then that is your problem, not mine.

 

 

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 19, 2007 -> 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, he was moved down specifically to be given the chance to hit for more power and drive the ball more. Going from 2 to 1 is nothing of that sort.

 

So you are saying he is losing his OBP because he has to hit for more power? H-O-R-S-E-S-H-I-T! You have never seen him hit well in any slot other than #2 because that is all he has done.

Edited April 19, 2007 by southsideirish

[NorthSideSox72]

So you are saying he is losing his OBP because he has to hit for more power? H-O-R-S-E-S-H-I-T!

Wow.

[CWSGuy406]

They are better? How so? Dellucci has an on-base percentage of .350 or better twice in the last 6 years. His career batting average is .262. He had one season where he hit 29 home runs, but hasn't ever come close to that before. You are overvaluing him I believe. Nixon is always hurt and can't hit lefthanders. How exactly are they better? Maybe the grass is always greener for you.

 

I hate using career numbers, but Delluci's career OPS+ is 103 to Podsednik's 89 and Erstad's 96. If you use three year splits, a much better indicator of what these players will do going forward, the scales tip heavily on Delluci's favor.

 

Nixon crushes righties -- something that Podsednik or Erstad don't do. His OPS borders .900 (vs righties) over his career, a .150 point increase over our current (DLed) LFer. He also came on a cheap one year deal. He would've been a perfect fit.

 

Who cares if he can't hit lefties? Neither can Erstad nor Podsednik.

 

BTW -- there is no indication that guys hit better/worse in different spots. You're talking like Iguchi would just crumble under the pressure of having to go from hitting second to first. When he gets 500 ABs in the one spot and has a .300 OBP, then you can (start) to talk about him not being a capable leadoff man. Until then...

Edited April 19, 2007 by CWSGuy406