Erstad/Anderson MEGAThread

[Texsox]

May I toss another log on the Ozzie fire.

 

If you compare team photos from 2005 and 2007 you will probably notice some new faces. We do know that Ozzie could manage that 2005 team to a WS win. We don't know if he can manage the 2007 team to anything. It's the whole package. A manager might be great with one group of players and God awful with another. And they may be wearing the same color uniforms. So for the love of exploding scoreboards, drop the '05 comparisons.

[fathom]

May I toss another log on the Ozzie fire.

 

If you compare team photos from 2005 and 2007 you will probably notice some new faces. We do know that Ozzie could manage that 2005 team to a WS win. We don't know if he can manage the 2007 team to anything. It's the whole package. A manager might be great with one group of players and God awful with another. And they may be wearing the same color uniforms. So for the love of exploding scoreboards, drop the '05 comparisons.

 

Great post.....Ozzie's smallball approach was much better for a team that had Carl Everett as their DH compared to having Jim Thome as their DH.

[BearSox]

Erstad is actually a significantly better defensive CF than Anderson. Both Cowley and Gregor have reported that Anderson has trouble going back on balls and implied he doesn't give maximum effort in the OF. I'm pretty sure that's one reason Guillen has soured on him. Last night Ozzie said flat out that Anderson isn't as good as Erstad defensively and will not be replacing him in CF. I think Anderson's defense is greatly overrated.

I strongly disagree with that. Anderson has the potential to be a perennial GG'er out there. Erstad gets good reads, but his arm is only adequate and he is slow out there. Anderson has a better arm, and can get to more balls then Erstad can get to.

 

Plus, Erstad is a lefty, which is good for LF.

[southsideirish71]

White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen changed his mind about starting Brian Anderson on Saturday, again going with Darin Erstad.

Erstad was dropped to seventh in the order against a left-hander and went 0-for-5, dropping his average to .169. Anderson apparently will get a start soon, but it may come in left field. "Erstad has to be in the lineup," Guillen said. "But Anderson will play this week -- no matter whether it's going to be a righty or a lefty. I'm going to give him a chance to start, probably in Kansas City."

[Rowand44]

Erstad is actually a significantly better defensive CF than Anderson. Both Cowley and Gregor have reported that Anderson has trouble going back on balls and implied he doesn't give maximum effort in the OF. I'm pretty sure that's one reason Guillen has soured on him. Last night Ozzie said flat out that Anderson isn't as good as Erstad defensively and will not be replacing him in CF. I think Anderson's defense is greatly overrated.

Well if it's been reported, it must be true. Anderson is one of the best defensive cf's in baseball, nobody can convince me otherwise.

[CWSGuy406]

Erstad is actually a significantly better defensive CF than Anderson. Both Cowley and Gregor have reported that Anderson has trouble going back on balls and implied he doesn't give maximum effort in the OF.

 

This argument holds no water. Find stats that say he's better. Find respectable scouts saying he's better. That's absolutely laughable that Erstad, at 32 (?) years old, is a better defender than Anderson. You keep beating that same damn drum, and it means nothing.

[Capn12]

White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen changed his mind about starting Brian Anderson on Saturday, again going with Darin Erstad.

Erstad was dropped to seventh in the order against a left-hander and went 0-for-5, dropping his average to .169. Anderson apparently will get a start soon, but it may come in left field. "Erstad has to be in the lineup," Guillen said. "But Anderson will play this week -- no matter whether it's going to be a righty or a lefty. I'm going to give him a chance to start, probably in Kansas City."

 

Seriously Ozzie...ENOUGH of that BS. What justifies this endles spew of meaningless drivel that you apparently believe?

[GoodAsGould]

I wouldnt worry guys, Erstad keeps up the way he is hitting Ozzie is going to have to eventually go to Anderson. He wont sacrafice the defense to put Pods in CF and Mack in LF.

[SoxFanForever]

I wouldnt worry guys, Erstad keeps up the way he is hitting Ozzie is going to have to eventually go to Anderson. He wont sacrafice the defense to put Pods in CF and Mack in LF.

He dislikes Anderson enough to use him as a PR for Thome and then let Anderson's defense rot on the bench while Pablo is out in LF in a tie game. I wouldn't be so sure Ozzie is going to make the "smart" move.

Edited April 22, 2007 by SoxFanForever

[hitlesswonder]

This argument holds no water. Find stats that say he's better. Find respectable scouts saying he's better. That's absolutely laughable that Erstad, at 32 (?) years old, is a better defender than Anderson. You keep beating that same damn drum, and it means nothing.

 

Erstad has played so little CF recently that there are obviously no stats for him that are relevant. Last season Anderson was a +5 using Chris Dial's metrics which is good but not great. And the 2nd half of last season Anderson was 0 on Dial's scale, implying he neither saved nor cost runs in the field. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but Erstad was better than that when he won his GG in CF. Obviously, he's not necessarily the player he was then.

 

The sample size is problematic, but I just don't think Anderson is some kind of defensive whiz. We have 3 people who have seen Anderson play a lot (Cowley, Gregor, and Ozzie) and all of them consider Erstad to be the better defender. You may have no respect for the opinion of any of those guys, and I'm not a big fan of them either, but they've seen both players a lot more than I have. And in any case, it's not like putting Erstad in CF over Anderson is like playing Mack there. It's a defensible move. There are reasons one might start BA over Erstad, but I don't see defense as a big reason.

 

Anyway, since I've been officially accused of repeated drum beating, I won't post about it again. Unless Erstad racks up enough playing time to compare his 2007 with Anderson's 2006 Sadly, at the plate so far Anderson's 2006 was better....

[CWSGuy406]

He dislikes Anderson enough to use him as a PR for Thome and then let Anderson's defense rot on the bench while Pablo is out in LF in a tie game. I wouldn't be so sure Ozzie is going to make the "smart" move.

 

Yeah -- a game like today tells you all you need to know about where Anderson resides in Guillen's mind right now. A lefty on the mound with Erstad looking like total ass at the plate lately (even with the two hit game -- those two hits couldn't have been hit in more perfect spots).

 

Ozzie's reasoning for not wanting Anderson in the game today? He didn't want Anderson and Molina starting in the same game. What the hell is that supposed to mean? Even if Ozzie wants to use the bulls*** lines like, "Erstad is doing the little things well" -- is Erstad going to do his "little-things" in the seven spot? Hitting behind Crede?

 

Sorry... I'm not buying it.

 

It'd be one thing if Erstad was looking good at the plate, ie hitting some balls hard and getting unlucky, but that's not the case. He looks awful at the plate -- I'm sure a lot of people saw his AB vs Zumaya today, right? That was probably the most embarrassing AB I've seen this year. Zumaya didn't even throw his breaking ball and Erstad looked pathetic. I'd almost go so far as to say that he's lucky to be hitting .170 right now.

 

If this were any other player, Ozzie would've definitely given the guy a day off. But at this point it seems like he's trying to prove a point rather than doing what's best for the team. This situation is absolutely f***ing ridiculous. There's no reason why Anderson isn't playing CF for the Knights everyday (he should be playing CF for the Sox, but I digress) with Terrero up here on the bench.

[BearSox]

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/viewpoll.as...submit=Vote+%3E

How sad is this poll question on Chisox.com?

 

Can someone please explain to me why this organization believes Erstad is God's gift to baseball?

I can't believe I used to post there...

[Kalapse]

Skill? What skill? Being the worst hitter in baseball and his ability to make boneheaded mistakes on defense? Then yeah sure I'm impressed.

[witesoxfan]

And the 2nd half of last season Anderson was 0 on Dial's scale, implying he neither saved nor cost runs in the field. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but Erstad was better than that when he won his GG in CF. Obviously, he's not necessarily the player he was then.

 

Wouldn't it be hard to play CF on an every other game basis (if that)? People talk about control and hitting and what not else - completely regardless of rookie, unadjusted status, would it not be hard to get reads on flyballs if you're playing every other day? I have to figure it would.

 

Anyway, since I've been officially accused of repeated drum beating, I won't post about it again. Unless Erstad racks up enough playing time to compare his 2007 with Anderson's 2006 Sadly, at the plate so far Anderson's 2006 was better....

 

meh..

 

15 games into the season

 

Brian Anderson (2006) - .164/.254/.309/.563

Darin Erstad (2007) - .185/.250/.241/.491

 

They have both been inexcuseably s***ty.

 

Given...Erstad putting 72 points difference in OPS, and worse in every category except average (which, in case you were wondering, means a single is the same as a walk), is kinda scary, seeing as how Anderson was a rookie last year and Erstad is a 12 year veteran.

 

I really don't like Erstad starting in CF, in case you hadn't gotten that jive yet.

[alk3kevin]

Anyone else concerned that Erstad will get 600 plate appearances and his option will vest for next season?

[iguchi=dank]

Anyone else concerned that Erstad will get 600 plate appearances and his option will vest for next season?

 

 

Thats NOT funny in the least bit.

 

Anywho, I'm kinda done being worried by this stupid erstad era were currently in. Erstad has absolutely ZERO offensive game left and it should only be a matter of time before BA or anybody with a pulse at the plate starts to take real platoon time with him and then during this time erstad will get some leg issue or something and take a f***ing seat.

 

I mean you have to be a HUGE erstad homer and BA hater to really believe that erstad gives us a better team than BA. We all know BA is going to strikeout abnormally high prolly for the foreseeable future, but seriously he is at least somewhat dangerous at the plate when he makes contact and can take a walk. Erstad is pathetic, did you SEE his swings lately... GAWD.. The only thing that is keeping me from insanity on this issue is to see ozzie's qoute's about the subject, its hilarious. Honestly... didn't want BA in the lineup with molina........ ERSTAD AND MOLINA IS MORE PATHETIC, especially with a lefty up!.. ozzie is making it such a joke that i'm finally just letting it go and expect an erstad grounder or terrible strikeout and move on to the next day and one of these days this stupid experiment will be over, and we can have back our average young CF and be a better team.

 

Meanwhile lets just enjoy how disgustingly bad erstad is while it lasts, ozzie is throwing him out there everyday praying that he proves everybody wrong and then ozzie can say, EVERYONE wanted DIS kid outa here, now look at this grinder we have at the top order.... sorry ozzie not gonna happen.

 

and since these rants are annoying to some people I'm hoping for a big day for erstad, maybe a couple hits even so that people can think he's turning a corner for the 3rd time this season(he's only had 2 good games i believe, maybe 3). "didn't want molina and anderson in the game together" THANK YOU ozzie, the quotes will only get better from here on out. I will enjoy

Edited April 22, 2007 by iguchi=dank

[Heads22]

Let's use this thread for discussion of everyone's two favorite players.

[TheHolyBovine]

I'm so glad that we have these great grinders on the team. This thread should also include Pods, Molina, and anyone else who hits like Augie Ojeda.

 

Kenny f***ed up this season by not adding a quality bat to the outfield. You can live with subpar production from CF or LF if you have a quality team overall, but you can't have utility IF production from BOTH slots.

 

Kenny can still do something to salvage the season...Pick up someone like Scott Hairston or Ryan Church. It's not too late.

 

That being said, KW failed with regard to the only significant task he needed to accomplish this winter.

[Balta1701]

How about we give Terrero a shot with the big league team?

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

Let's also include Ichiro, Griffey JR., the collection of Tampa outfielders, Jaques Jones, Carl Everett, and any other CFer that we have an millionth of a chance to acquire.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Craig Grebeck @ Apr 22, 2007 -> 08:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anyone else concerned that Erstad will get 600 plate appearances and his option will vest for next season?

What would happen if he hit it before the waiver deadline on August 31st? If the Sox put him on waivers I imagine the dumbass team to claim would owe him the $6 million for 2008. If they release him, the owe everything.

Here's another one

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...58148&st=50

[RockRaines]

I strongly disagree with that. Anderson has the potential to be a perennial GG'er out there. Erstad gets good reads, but his arm is only adequate and he is slow out there. Anderson has a better arm, and can get to more balls then Erstad can get to.

 

Plus, Erstad is a lefty, which is good for LF.

He may have a better arm, but Erstad's range has been exceptional, and so has his quickness.

 

That being said, KW failed with regard to the only significant task he needed to accomplish this winter.

Uh ok.

 

KW made some pretty awesome moves this winter.

[CWSGuy406]

He may have a better arm, but Erstad's range has been exceptional, and so has his quickness.

Uh ok.

 

KW made some pretty awesome moves this winter.

 

I think he's referring to the resigning of Scott Podsednik, which has to be looked at as KW's worst move of the winter.

Edited April 24, 2007 by CWSGuy406

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Apr 22, 2007 -> 12:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah -- a game like today tells you all you need to know about where Anderson resides in Guillen's mind right now. A lefty on the mound with Erstad looking like total ass at the plate lately (even with the two hit game -- those two hits couldn't have been hit in more perfect spots).

 

Ozzie's reasoning for not wanting Anderson in the game today? He didn't want Anderson and Molina starting in the same game. What the hell is that supposed to mean? Even if Ozzie wants to use the bulls*** lines like, "Erstad is doing the little things well" -- is Erstad going to do his "little-things" in the seven spot? Hitting behind Crede?

 

Sorry... I'm not buying it.

 

It'd be one thing if Erstad was looking good at the plate, ie hitting some balls hard and getting unlucky, but that's not the case. He looks awful at the plate -- I'm sure a lot of people saw his AB vs Zumaya today, right? That was probably the most embarrassing AB I've seen this year. Zumaya didn't even throw his breaking ball and Erstad looked pathetic. I'd almost go so far as to say that he's lucky to be hitting .170 right now.

 

If this were any other player, Ozzie would've definitely given the guy a day off. But at this point it seems like he's trying to prove a point rather than doing what's best for the team. This situation is absolutely f***ing ridiculous. There's no reason why Anderson isn't playing CF for the Knights everyday (he should be playing CF for the Sox, but I digress) with Terrero up here on the bench.

 

 

 

Can you please tell me why you would want Anderson in there over a healthy Erstad? Erstad is a solid if not plus defensive CF. It is not like he is Mackowiak or Carl Everett out there. Erstad does more for this team at the plate than Brian Anderson can and that is a fact. You are not downgrading much defensively but you are improving tremendously at the plate. I don't understand the argument for BA against a healthy Erstad. I really don't. Please explain.

 

I will give you that BA should be down starting in CF for the knights and we can call him up if we need a CF replacement, but I do not want him starting over a healthy Erstad ever.

Edited April 24, 2007 by southsideirish

[santo=dorf]

I'm sorry, but how isn't Grinderstad healthy right now?