Erstad/Anderson MEGAThread

[TitoMB345]

I am absolutely sick over how absolutely stupid and stubborn Ozzie Guillen has become. It's a joke. Please, god PLEASE, let Ozzie open his mouth again and get his ass suspended from the league or something. Ozzie, thanks for 2005, but you're an idiot now.

[Rex Kickass]

In the last six games Darin Erstad has played, he is .048 with one walk and six strikeouts. (1-21)

 

In the last six games Brian Anderson has played, he is .125 with one walk and three strikeouts. (1-8)

[Capn12]

Ozzie gets a lifetime of pardons apparently from some, because he was fortunate enough to be managing one of, if not THE best pitching performance in the postseason. How hard is it to manage a pitching staff that is throwing CGs, and dominating?

 

I mean seriously, take off the Ozzie love glasses, and you may notice that he is not able to walk on water. His managing style follows no logic or sense at all.

 

Tell me again, what does grindErstad bring to this team that we didn't have already in a cheaper, faster, younger version?

 

Oh its ok, he has those 'intangibles'..I'm sorry.

[StrangeSox]

Mark Buerhle pitched a no-hitter and we had some real fine defensive plays behind him and we still gripe. I don't think this is right.

 

 

There's only so much you can say about MB's great performance. There's no discussion or debate -- we all agree that its fantastic to see him pitching as good or better than he ever has.

[badatbest]

Ozzie made the right move to put BA in LF as a defensive replacement.

 

Moving Erstad to LF and Anderston to CF would create a situation with 2 people playing an inning in a new position. I liked the move Ozzie made.

 

 

On a side note, BA should be starting in CF to begin with.

[fathom]

Ozzie made the right move to put BA in LF as a defensive replacement.

 

Moving Erstad to LF and Anderston to CF would create a situation with 2 people playing an inning in a new position. I liked the move Ozzie made.

On a side note, BA should be starting in CF to begin with.

 

It just set in with me that Ozzie thinks Pods is better defensively in LF than Mackowiak.

[BigSqwert]

It just set in with me that Ozzie thinks Pods is better defensively in LF than Mackowiak.

I would have to think that is the case. Why I don't know but he obviously thinks so.

[RibbieRubarb]

Ozzie gets a lifetime of pardons apparently from some, because he was fortunate enough to be managing one of, if not THE best pitching performance in the postseason. How hard is it to manage a pitching staff that is throwing CGs, and dominating?

I mean seriously, take off the Ozzie love glasses, and you may notice that he is not able to walk on water. His managing style follows no logic or sense at all.

 

Tell me again, what does grindErstad bring to this team that we didn't have already in a cheaper, faster, younger version?

 

Oh its ok, he has those 'intangibles'..I'm sorry.

 

Ask Dusty Baker and the 2003 Cubs...Ask Bobby Cox and all the years with the Braves...Ask ANYBODY how easy it is to Manage a Major League Baseball club in the World Series.

 

You think it's EASY?!?

 

wow

[witesoxfan]

Logic + Ozzie = 2005 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS

 

Does that compute??

 

no

 

Logic + KW = 2005 World Series Champions

 

That makes a little more sense.

 

I wouldn't have won a World Championship as the manager, but that's because I wouldn't have the respect of the players, even if I were aged 20 years. Ozzie does because he's been around the game for 20 years. That doesn't make him smart or a good or logical manager at all. It merely makes him a respected manager.

 

I'd question the level of respect any young player coming up from within the organization has for Ozzie Guillen right now. That's a problem for a team that's in a retooling phase.

[AddisonStSox]

no

 

Logic + KW = 2005 World Series Champions

 

Oh, no...you didn't

[ScottyDo]

well since we're on the topic of Ozzie, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO REMEMBERS MANUAL!?!?!? If you guarantee me we'll get someone better than Ozzie the hell, I'm all for it. But we could do a LOOOOT worse. Call this "intangibles" if you want, but the players like to play for him and that's a good portion of why we win a lot of games. If the players don't like playing for another manager, I GUARANTEE we start losing in a hurry.

 

He doesn't get a free pass forever but just assuming he's gonna be replaced by a Hall of Fame type manager doesn't make ANY sense.

 

And YES, he can have a free pass for 2 years after giving us our first title in like 80+.

[TitoMB345]

well since we're on the topic of Ozzie, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO REMEMBERS MANUAL!?!?!? If you guarantee me we'll get someone better than Ozzie the hell, I'm all for it. But we could do a LOOOOT worse. Call this "intangibles" if you want, but the players like to play for him and that's a good portion of why we win a lot of games. If the players don't like playing for another manager, I GUARANTEE we start losing in a hurry.

 

He doesn't get a free pass forever but just assuming he's gonna be replaced by a Hall of Fame type manager doesn't make ANY sense.

 

And YES, he can have a free pass for 2 years after giving us our first title in like 80+.

So you are saying that because in comparison to Manuel he should keep his job? That's like saying you should support Clinton because in comparison to Bush, she is loads better.

[quickman]

The armchair managing has reached epic proportions the likes of which I have never see before.

 

Anderson was virtually handed a starting outfield position for a defending-champion roster on a golden platter and could not capitalize on it. He was renown for being one of "Kenny's guys." and the two better center field options in the organization were cleared out of the way so that Anderson would essentially be handed the spot.

 

And yet, the organization is out to get Brian Anderson.

 

The way this has been playing out on this board has been cracking me up.

 

 

It drives you nuts doesn't it?

[DBAHO]

It drives you nuts doesn't it?

Just for comparisons sake, let's have a look at some Center Fielder's who have recently started at the major league level in their 1st season (or currently in);

 

Brian Anderson - .225/.290/.359

 

Chris Young - .191/.235/.340

Grady Sizemore (2004) - .246/.333/.406

Willy Taveras - .291/.325/.341

Curtis Granderson - .260/.335/.438

Chris Duffy - .255/.317/.338

Jeremy Reed - .254/.322/.352

 

So I'd say BA would be in the middle to lower half of those. And yet his 2nd half splits in 06 .257/.301/.393, that shows improvement and is better than the majority of OPS's put up on that list.

 

In all of this, no-one is saying Brian Anderson will be an all star this season if he's given the chance. We're saying compared to the competition in Darin Erstad (OPS's of .696, .605 and currently .461) and the injury prone Scott Podsednik, he looks like a player who has the better chance at improving and putting up decent numbers, well at least that for me.

 

And I think what annoys us, is that there wasn't a competition in Spring Training for that CF spot as Ozzie Guillen said there would be. Because if there was based on ST numbers Brian Anderson would be your starting center fielder.

 

And Addison, the thing is with young hitters, they take time. Did we bail on Joe Crede after 1 season because he didn't put up good offensive numbers? No we didn't. Did we bail on Jon Garland while we waited for that potential of his to come through? No we didn't.

 

And compared with those examples, Brian Anderson hasn't gotten that chance.

[witesoxfan]

Oh, no...you didn't

 

I bet Lou Piniella or Joe Torre wins a World Series with that team too. Put them on the Royals or DRays and I bet they lose. Oh, that's right, Piniella already managed the DRays and they crawled out of the cellar once. Is it about the talent on the field or the manager in the dugout?

 

Ozzie managed the pen pretty well that year, but it's a hell of a lot easier to manage a bullpen when you have 5 relievers that pitched as well as Hermanson, Politte, Cotts, Vizcaino, and Jenks did. It also doesn't hurt that the Sox had 4 guys give them 200+ innings of sub 4 ERA, and 3 guys that gave them 220+ innings of sub 4 ERA. The fact of the matter is that coaching (ie the adjustments Cooper made to the entire pitching staff) and talent won that World Series, and Ozzie, though he managed well, did hardly anything to win it.

 

Now you are trying to convince me he is a logical manager when he keeps the worst hitter in the league leading off...how is that logical? How?

[knightni]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO REMEMBERS MANUAL!?!?!?

 

There's a how-to book on this stuff?

[RibbieRubarb]

I bet Lou Piniella or Joe Torre wins a World Series with that team too. Put them on the Royals or DRays and I bet they lose. Oh, that's right, Piniella already managed the DRays and they crawled out of the cellar once. Is it about the talent on the field or the manager in the dugout?

 

Ozzie managed the pen pretty well that year, but it's a hell of a lot easier to manage a bullpen when you have 5 relievers that pitched as well as Hermanson, Politte, Cotts, Vizcaino, and Jenks did. It also doesn't hurt that the Sox had 4 guys give them 200+ innings of sub 4 ERA, and 3 guys that gave them 220+ innings of sub 4 ERA. The fact of the matter is that coaching (ie the adjustments Cooper made to the entire pitching staff) and talent won that World Series, and Ozzie, though he managed well, did hardly anything to win it.

 

Now you are trying to convince me he is a logical manager when he keeps the worst hitter in the league leading off...how is that logical? How?

 

Wait...you mean you need good players to win a championship?!?!?

Yes, we know that.

 

But, also understand what a bad manager can do to a talented ball club.

 

Sorry...complain all you like, Ozzie and his managerial abiltites were a major...let me rephrase...MAJOR reason we won it all in 2005.

 

I waited for a championship for a long time. I prayed for just ONE in my lifetime. Ozzie helped give me that.

I would never dare call him a idiot, moron, or horrible...simply becuse its an insult to what we gave all of us and it simply isn't true.

 

Does he make mistakes...sure all managers do. But is he the cause of all our issues. HELL NO.

Edited April 20, 2007 by RibbieRubarb

[AddisonStSox]

It drives you nuts doesn't it?

 

TQ, check your inbox in the next couple of days; I have some updates.

 

Wait...you mean you need good players to win a championship?!?!?

Yes, we know that.

 

But, also understand what a bad manager can do to a talented ball club.

 

Sorry...complain all you like, Ozzie and his managerial abiltites were a major...let me rephrase...MAJOR reason we won it all in 2005.

 

I waited for a championship for a long time. I prayed for just ONE in my lifetime. Ozzie helped give me that.

I would never dare call him a idiot, moron, or horrible...simply becuse its an insult to what we gave all of us and it simply isn't true.

 

Does he make mistakes...sure all managers do. But is he the cause of all our issues. HELL NO.

 

Spot on per usual, Ribbie. That about sums this discussion up, even with the World Series sentiments aside.

Edited April 20, 2007 by AddisonStSox

[alk3kevin]

TQ, check your inbox in the next couple of days; I have some updates.

Spot on per usual, Ribbie. That about sums this discussion up, even with the World Series sentiments aside.

He's putting the worst hitter in all of baseball in the position to get the most AB.

[witesoxfan]

But, also understand what a bad manager can do to a talented ball club.

 

You mean like the 2006 White Sox?

 

and don't give me the "they won 90 games" garbage. That team tanked hard in the 2nd half, putting up a sub .500 record and scoring fewer runs than the Cubs and Royals. You think that had anything to do with Ozzie's insistance on leaving sub-.300 OBP Scott Podsednik at the top of the order? Or constantly putting Mackowiak in CF when it was clear to the average eye that Mackowiak was a bad defensive CFer?

 

If that team plays .500 baseball in the second half, they tie Detroit for the Wild Card. .500 baseball. Podsednik and Mackowiak probably cost the Sox around 4-6 games. That's the playoffs.

 

I would never dare call him a idiot, moron, or horrible...simply becuse its an insult to what we gave all of us and it simply isn't true.

 

Does he make mistakes...sure all managers do. But is he the cause of all our issues. HELL NO.

 

I'll be forever thankful of Ozzie and KW for what they did in 2005; that was 2005. I'm not about to judge a person's actions now because they did something good in the past. Is Pacman Jones a good person because he's helped out his community? Is Ozzie Guillen a good manager because he won a World Series? I just don't understand that logic. He is in a position of power, thus he deserves fair criticism. I give him props when they are do, and I criticize him when I feel I must. To some, it may seem I am overcriticizing him; when he leaves Darin f'ing Erstad in the leadoff spot, I don't feel an infinite amount of criticism is enough.

 

I'll never call him a moron or idiot, unless in jest, and if I have in the past I take it back now. I'll call moves of his idiotic and moronic, but never him.

 

And finally, he has never been the cause of all the Sox issues, and never will be. I don't know who's suggested that. If he were, he would have been gone a long friggin time ago. It doesn't change the fact that he's made decisions in the past that have cost the team in the long run, and when he does, just like when any manager of the White Sox does, I will question them. That doesn't mean they're idiots or morons or horrible, it just means they make illogical decisions that cost the team in the long run.

[GreenSox]

Erstad's hitting has been poor for several seasons - it's not just this year...so even if he reverts to 05 or 06, it still sucks. But it's incredible enough that Ozzie plays this guy, but to lead him off?

I guess Ozzie finally found a way to put a batter who hits in his image at the top of the lineup: swing at everything, little power, incredible number of outs, low obp - just like Ozzie did as a hitter. Last night, Ozzie actually bunted someone so that Erstad could {flailingly attempt to} drive them in from 2nd. It's surreal.

Edited April 20, 2007 by GreenSox

[BearSox]

Why would you have Anderson play LF and Erstad CF? Wouldn't it make more sense to move the slower, left-handing OF'er to LF, and let the faster OF with at least equal defensive skill to CF?

[tealeafreaderii]

Last night, Ozzie actually bunted someone so that Erstad could {flailingly attempt to} drive them in from 2nd. It's surreal.

 

And get this... the stubburn jack-a-motrain has the gall to pull the same dang thing tonight. Its not like it led to the winning run or anything...

[Capn12]

Even Rob Deer was successful getting a basehit 190 out of 1000 times in his worst year.

 

Call me when Erstad does it for a whole year.

[hitlesswonder]

Why would you have Anderson play LF and Erstad CF? Wouldn't it make more sense to move the slower, left-handing OF'er to LF, and let the faster OF with at least equal defensive skill to CF?

 

Erstad is actually a significantly better defensive CF than Anderson. Both Cowley and Gregor have reported that Anderson has trouble going back on balls and implied he doesn't give maximum effort in the OF. I'm pretty sure that's one reason Guillen has soured on him. Last night Ozzie said flat out that Anderson isn't as good as Erstad defensively and will not be replacing him in CF. I think Anderson's defense is greatly overrated.