Erstad/Anderson MEGAThread

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Apr 23, 2007 -> 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think he's referring to the resigning of Scott Podsednik, which has to be looked at as KW's worst move of the winter.

 

 

 

How so? Other GMs were throwing 5-7.5 million at similar players. Kenny re-signed the same type of player for at least 2 million less than the going rate. He was off to a great start and is injured. Injuries are KW's fault? Since when? He had a backup plan in place in case the guy got injured and we are seeing that now and not missing a beat. That is all you can ask your GM to do.

 

KW has made unbelievable moves this offseason and has put this team in a great position to succeed with the revamped bullpen and the re-signing of Javier Vazquez. All you couch GM's suck balls.

[Chisoxfn]

I'm sorry, but whether you like Pods or not (and I'm well documented to the fact that I'm not one of his biggest fans) his signing was not a bad one given the market conditions over the off-season.

 

Pods contract was a value compared to what guys like Pierre & Matthews Jr. got. Plus Pods, while not the most gifted offensive player tends to do a good job with his approach at the plate for a leadoff hitter (taking pitches) and really was playing well before getting hurt (even his defense, while still horrid, was a lot better than last season).

 

And as far as Erstad goes, yet another good game for the outfielder as he seems to finally be getting a bit of his stroke bad (which is resulting in a few more line drives, although he's still been way too pull happy).

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Apr 23, 2007 -> 10:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sorry, but how isn't Grinderstad healthy right now?

 

Who said he wasn't healthy? Why do you want a guy batting .111 to replace a guy that is batting .206? For what purpose? He isn't that much of an upgrade defensively, if at all, over Erstad. So while Erstad is healthy, why not play him. Erstad is a veteran who knows how to hit in certain situations, can bunt, and can move the runner over, and makes contact consistently. BA has not shown that he knows how to do anything with the bat. I really don't understand how starting BA over Erstad helps this team. I don't understand that argument at all.

Edited April 24, 2007 by southsideirish

[Heads22]

I'm sorry, but whether you like Pods or not (and I'm well documented to the fact that I'm not one of his biggest fans) his signing was not a bad one given the market conditions over the off-season.

 

Pods contract was a value compared to what guys like Pierre & Matthews Jr. got. Plus Pods, while not the most gifted offensive player tends to do a good job with his approach at the plate for a leadoff hitter (taking pitches) and really was playing well before getting hurt (even his defense, while still horrid, was a lot better than last season).

 

And as far as Erstad goes, yet another good game for the outfielder as he seems to finally be getting a bit of his stroke bad (which is resulting in a few more line drives, although he's still been way too pull happy).

 

I don't have a problem with him when he drops the pulling bulls***.

[Chisoxfn]

Who said he wasn't healthy? Why do you want a guy batting .111 to replace a guy that is batting .206? For what purpose? He isn't that much of an upgrade defensively, if at all, over Erstad. So while Erstad is healthy, why not play him. Erstad is a veteran who knows how to hit in certain situations, can bunt, and can move the runner over, and makes contact consistently. BA has not shown that he knows how to do anything with the bat. I really don't understand how starting BA over Erstad helps this team. I don't understand that argument at all.

I'll say one thing, since Ozzie likes Erstad he should at least be smart enough to know that if Erstad is going to stay in the lineup he's going to need consistent rest (especially early on since he's been recovering from a slew of injuries over the past couple years and last year gave him ample time to recover from a lot of them, but he still has to go through the daily battles of the season) and that means Terrero or BA get at least a start per week (just my 2 cents).

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 23, 2007 -> 11:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who said he wasn't healthy? Why do you want a guy batting .111 to replace a guy that is batting .206? For what purpose? He isn't that much of an upgrade defensively, if at all, over Erstad. So while Erstad is healthy, why not play him. Erstad is a veteran who knows how to hit in certain situations, can bunt, and can move the runner over, and makes contact consistently. BA has not shown that he knows how to do anything with the bat. I really don't understand how starting BA over Erstad helps this team. I don't understand that argument at all.

Well you keep telling us how good a healthy Erstad is, and so far a healthy Erstad looks like s***.

 

Erstad's numbers this year are worse than that guy GETTING THE SHAFT's numbers last April.

 

Erstad sucks and needs time off. That's why you don't play him.

[witesoxfan]

Who said he wasn't healthy? Why do you want a guy batting .111 to replace a guy that is batting .206? For what purpose? He isn't that much of an upgrade defensively, if at all, over Erstad. So while Erstad is healthy, why not play him. Erstad is a veteran who knows how to hit in certain situations, can bunt, and can move the runner over, and makes contact consistently. BA has not shown that he knows how to do anything with the bat. I really don't understand how starting BA over Erstad helps this team. I don't understand that argument at all.

 

Why are you using Anderson's average in comparison? He's had 11 PAs this year.

[CWSGuy406]

How so? Other GMs were throwing 5-7.5 million at similar players. Kenny re-signed the same type of player for at least 2 million less than the going rate. He was off to a great start and is injured. Injuries are KW's fault? Since when?

 

You seem to be under the assumption that Scott Podsednik is worth any money whatsoever. He's not. What does he do well?

 

Get on base? Nope -- it's been more than a year-and-a-half since Pods has gotten on base consistently.

 

Steal bases well? Nope -- last year, without even counting pickoffs, Podsednik stealing percentage was 67%. That's not good. Need I mention getting caught not once but TWICE by Victor Martinez early this season...?

 

Plays defense well? Nope -- his arm sucks and he gets awful reads in LF.

 

Tell me -- would this team miss a beat if Podsednik were to be cut and the Sox went out and picked up Eduardo Perez? I certainly don't think so. A Mackowiak/Ozuna/Anderson (or Terrero rather than BA) platoon could do a much better job than Pods.

 

KW has made unbelievable moves this offseason and has put this team in a great position to succeed with the revamped bullpen and the re-signing of Javier Vazquez. All you couch GM's suck balls.

 

Since you're very ignorant, I'm not going to get too upset about this. You're talking to one of the few people who wasn't flipping s*** about the Garcia trade; one of the few people who, at the time of the trade, said that the talent package we were receiving from Texas was similar or better than B-Mac (I had other gripes about the trade, let it be understood); and one of many who liked the Vazquez resigning.

 

Outside of the Podsednik deal, I loved KW's offseason. He made us better in 2008 and beyond, and the "step-back" that was supposed to be there in 2007 might not even be that huge (if at all).

 

Pods contract was a value compared to what guys like Pierre & Matthews Jr. got. Plus Pods, while not the most gifted offensive player tends to do a good job with his approach at the plate for a leadoff hitter (taking pitches) and really was playing well before getting hurt (even his defense, while still horrid, was a lot better than last season).

 

Yes -- it was fine in terms of the market value, but I don't really want to compare Kenny to either of those GMs. The Matthews deal was a stupid one from the moment it was signed -- giving a guy who has his best season at age 31 (?) a multi-year deal. Ditto the Pierre deal.

 

Podsednik just isn't a very good ballplayer, as I've noted above. He hasn't been for a year in a half. For him to be effective at all, he needs to be able to run really fast. And when he tries to run really fast, he gets hurt.

Edited April 24, 2007 by CWSGuy406

[caulfield12]

Well you keep telling us how good a healthy Erstad is, and so far a healthy Erstad looks like s***.

 

Erstad's numbers this year are worse than that guy GETTING THE SHAFT's numbers last April.

 

Erstad sucks and needs time off. That's why you don't play him.

 

 

How many HUGE base hits did Anderson get to drive in runs when we really needed them, like Erstad's to tie the game against the Royals' ace, Meche?

 

It might have happened 2-3 times all last season. I'll go with Erstad. If he's still hitting .200-.225 on June 5th, then I would certainly be willing to look at giving Anderson or Terrero a shot. His bat has been coming around the last week or so, and those "seeing eye" hits are exactly what most hitters need to feel the momentum is turning in their direction. Baseball is 90% mental, and Erstad's 18 months removed from being an everyday regular.

[Chisoxfn]

How many HUGE base hits did Anderson get to drive in runs when we really needed them, like Erstad's to tie the game against the Royals' ace, Meche?

 

It might have happened 2-3 times all last season. I'll go with Erstad. If he's still hitting .200-.225 on June 5th, then I would certainly be willing to look at giving Anderson or Terrero a shot. His bat has been coming around the last week or so, and those "seeing eye" hits are exactly what most hitters need to feel the momentum is turning in their direction. Baseball is 90% mental, and Erstad's 18 months removed from being an everyday regular.

I wouldn't be shocked if that was the case (Erstad hitting in the low .200's on June 5th) that the Sox gave Sweeney the starters job to see what he could do (and if he didn't produce you'd see the Sox trade for a stop-gap).

 

Right now I think Sweeney is the CF of the future. I hate writing off BA because he's talented but he's in a tough spot. However, some time in AAA could really change things. He could get consistent playing time and hopefully he's already began improving his attitude and earn himself a fresh start next time he comes back up.

[caulfield12]

You seem to be under the assumption that Scott Podsednik is worth any money whatsoever. He's not. What does he do well?

 

Get on base? Nope -- it's been more than a year-and-a-half since Pods has gotten on base consistently.

 

Steal bases well? Nope -- last year, without even counting pickoffs, Podsednik stealing percentage was 67%. That's not good. Need I mention getting caught not once but TWICE by Victor Martinez early this season...?

 

Plays defense well? Nope -- his arm sucks and he gets awful reads in LF.

 

Tell me -- would this team miss a beat if Podsednik were to be cut and the Sox went out and picked up Eduardo Perez? I certainly don't think so. A Mackowiak/Ozuna/Anderson (or Terrero rather than BA) platoon could do a much better job than Pods.

Since you're very ignorant, I'm not going to get too upset about this. You're talking to one of the few people who wasn't flipping s*** about the Garcia trade; one of the few people who, at the time of the trade, said that the talent package we were receiving from Texas was similar or better than B-Mac (I had other gripes about the trade, let it be understood); and one of many who liked the Vazquez resigning.

 

Outside of the Podsednik deal, I loved KW's offseason. He made us better in 2008 and beyond, and the "step-back" that was supposed to be there in 2007 might not even be that huge (if at all).

Yes -- it was fine in terms of the market value, but I don't really want to compare Kenny to either of those GMs. The Matthews deal was a stupid one from the moment it was signed -- giving a guy who has his best season at age 31 (?) a multi-year deal. Ditto the Pierre deal.

 

Podsednik just isn't a very good ballplayer, as I've noted above. He hasn't been for a year in a half. For him to be effective at all, he needs to be able to run really fast. And when he tries to run really fast, he gets hurt.

 

 

So you would rather that KW gave Dave Roberts $18 million over 3 years at his age?

 

At least Pods is only getting $2.9 million and we can jettison him after this season.

 

http://baseball.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6305

 

KW did a great job of getting us a younger Dave Roberts with more upside (Erstad) and very little to no downside monetarily.

[CWSGuy406]

It might have happened 2-3 times all last season. I'll go with Erstad. If he's still hitting .200-.225 on June 5th, then I would certainly be willing to look at giving Anderson or Terrero a shot. His bat has been coming around the last week or so, and those "seeing eye" hits are exactly what most hitters need to feel the momentum is turning in their direction. Baseball is 90% mental, and Erstad's 18 months removed from being an everyday regular.

 

I love the implied assumption here that Brian Anderson will be no better than his 2006 numbers. Apparently young players don't get better. And apparently it's smart to bank on 32 year olds who haven't been good in over six years.

[caulfield12]

I wouldn't be shocked if that was the case (Erstad hitting in the low .200's on June 5th) that the Sox gave Sweeney the starters job to see what he could do (and if he didn't produce you'd see the Sox trade for a stop-gap).

 

Right now I think Sweeney is the CF of the future. I hate writing off BA because he's talented but he's in a tough spot. However, some time in AAA could really change things. He could get consistent playing time and hopefully he's already began improving his attitude and earn himself a fresh start next time he comes back up.

 

 

I'm not buying it. I think KW knows that Sweeney is only a "plus" defender in LF or RF. Of course, he might not be a "plus" bat at either of those positions, whereas you can hide his lack of power in the middle of the diamond a little more easily, especially if you're getting 20+ homers from Uribe and Iguchi and 15 from AJ.

 

But the ideal defensive line-up for the White Sox major league club will never include Ryan Sweeney in CF, IMO. They can send him out there everyday in Charlotte and he can become an average MLB CF (due to his arm strength), but that's about the maximum upside.

[CWSGuy406]

So you would rather that KW gave Dave Roberts $18 million over 3 years at his age?

 

Nope -- apparently you didn't read my post. I would've been perfectly happy with keeping Eduardo Perez, cutting (or trading) Podsednik, and going with Mack/Ozuna/Anderson-Terrero in LF.

 

Or going with one of the older OFers who got one year deals -- Trot Nixon or Moises Alou.

 

Either of these options is better than going with Podsednik. He's basically Darin Erstad except he sucks defensively and is limited to one position (the easiest position).

[caulfield12]

I love the implied assumption here that Brian Anderson will be no better than his 2006 numbers. Apparently young players don't get better. And apparently it's smart to bank on 32 year olds who haven't been good in over six years.

 

 

Erstad is almost exactly identical to Iguchi over 2005-06 if you average out his composite 2001-2005 seasons. More stolen bases, fewer homers and RBI's, mostly due to his spot in the batting order. I wouldn't say that Iguchi was anything more than a "winning" player to the Sox during that timespan, yet Erstad is "horrible" because everyone keeps comparing 01-05 with 00. Erstad/Rowand....they're complementary players, but the White Sox can definitely win with either in CF, although they would be fourth outfielders on some teams. And until I see Anderson show that he has tightened up his swing and can do it against righties and lefties, then I want Erstad out there 5-6 games per week in CF.

 

Well, you can do the same for all the seasons from 00 leading up to 06 for Frank Thomas too, except Thomas was 37-38, not 32.

 

 

 

Nope -- apparently you didn't read my post. I would've been perfectly happy with keeping Eduardo Perez, cutting (or trading) Podsednik, and going with Mack/Ozuna/Anderson-Terrero in LF.

 

Or going with one of the older OFers who got one year deals -- Trot Nixon or Moises Alou.

 

Either of these options is better than going with Podsednik. He's basically Darin Erstad except he sucks defensively and is limited to one position (the easiest position).

 

So you'd be willing to go with Ozuna/Mackowiak or Iguchi as your leadoff hitter the entire season?

[CWSGuy406]

Erstad is almost exactly identical to Iguchi over 2005-06 if you average out his composite 2001-2005 seasons.

 

Since 2002, Erstad has posted an OBP over .330 once. In Iguchi's two years here, he's already done it twice, both times over .340.

 

So you'd be willing to go with Ozuna/Mackowiak or Iguchi as your leadoff hitter the entire season?

 

This is pretty much what we're doing now, except Podsednik is in for Mackowiak. I don't view Mackowiak as an everyday player, and I wouldn't like him playing everyday, but it would be just about the same thing as having Pods out there.

 

My gripe with Pods is more with his use of a roster spot. You take Podsednik off the roster, you can add a lefty masher in Eduardo Perez. Or if we want to rehash this for the umpteenth time, spent the money on Trot Nixon.

[max power]

Trot Nixon makes $3 million a year as well.

 

Nevermind, I understand you now. At first I thought you were saying that money was an issue.

Edited April 24, 2007 by max power

[hitlesswonder]

I love the implied assumption here that Brian Anderson will be no better than his 2006 numbers.

 

Right now, Brian Anderson is worse than his 2006 numbers. And he's been lazy in the OF. Right now, Erstad is a better player.

[Jordan4life_2007]

This team could really use Trot's .235/.316/.353/.669 right about now. Pods was playing well before he got hurt. Let's wait until his average is atleast below .300 before the cries for Trot Nixon begin.

Edited April 24, 2007 by Jordan4life_2007

[hitlesswonder]

So you'd be willing to go with Ozuna/Mackowiak or Iguchi as your leadoff hitter the entire season?

 

Ozuna/Mackowiak would better than Erstad in my opinion. I think in a platoon they could produce an OBP around .350. I don't see Erstad being able to do that. I know he's had a couple of good games, but Erstad hasn't been a high OBP player since 2000. I think he shouldn't be hitting 1 or 2.

[StrangeSox]

Right now, Brian Anderson is worse than his 2006 numbers. And he's been lazy in the OF. Right now, Erstad is a better player.

 

You can't use 10 scattered AB's to form any sort of average and make judgments or conclusions based on the numbers.

[max power]

Ozuna/Mackowiak would better than Erstad in my opinion. I think in a platoon they could produce an OBP around .350. I don't see Erstad being able to do that. I know he's had a couple of good games, but Erstad hasn't been a high OBP player since 2000. I think he shouldn't be hitting 1 or 2.

You want to put mack back out in center?

 

*shudders*

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Apr 23, 2007 -> 11:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well you keep telling us how good a healthy Erstad is, and so far a healthy Erstad looks like s***.

 

Erstad's numbers this year are worse than that guy GETTING THE SHAFT's numbers last April.

 

Erstad sucks and needs time off. That's why you don't play him.

 

 

 

HOW GOOD? I DO? WHERE? I am only stating that he is BETTER than Brian Anderson and has proved it. He is not a downgrade in defense, and is not a liability with the bat. Anderson is. Erstad knows how to hit in certain situations, Anderson can't hit in any situation. That is all I am saying. You want to give him time off? Fine, that is understandable. You don't want him leading off, fine that is understandable. But to make an argument to replace him with Anderson, I don't see it. I don't understand how that helps this team become better right now. Please tell me how that makes our team better RIGHT NOW!

[StrangeSox]

This team could really use Trot's .235/.316/.353/.669 right about now. Pods was playing well before he got hurt. Let's wait until his average is atleast below .300 before the cries for Trot Nixon begin.

 

Trot's average and OBP are better than 5 starters on the White Sox.

 

HOW GOOD? I DO? WHERE? I am only stating that he is BETTER than Brian Anderson and has proved it. He is not a downgrade in defense, and is not a liability with the bat. Anderson is. Erstad knows how to hit in certain situations, Anderson can't hit in any situation. That is all I am saying. You want to give him time off? Fine, that is understandable. You don't want him leading off, fine that is understandable. But to make an argument to replace him with Anderson, I don't see it. I don't understand how that helps this team become better right now. Please tell me how that makes our team better RIGHT NOW!

 

Erstad knows how to hit a soft ground ball to 2nd really, really well.

[jackie hayes]

You can't use 10 scattered AB's to form any sort of average and make judgments or conclusions based on the numbers.

The sample sizes for the stats being tossed around in this thread are pretty silly in general.