No Witty Title

[AddisonStSox]

Gents, the following is in no way, shape, or form an accredited rumor pertaining to either Joe Crede or Brian Anderson; rather, it is simple conjecture and thoughtful foresight.

 

Having said that, looking at this roster as it is currently constructed, there are at least two ballplayers that are primed for a trip to the transaction wire in the not too distant future. The two that I am referring two are Joe Crede and Brian Anderson.

 

I realize that both Mark Buehrle and Jermaine Dye are valid names for trade-deadline transactions if the Sox aren't competitive; however, rather than pick apart an entire roster based on what might happen, I was looking to get your thoughts on two guys whose, although for entirely different reasons, days are numbered for the Pale Hose.

 

First: Joe Crede

 

As much as we've come to embrace Crede, a long term extension simply doesn't seem to be in the works and it would not be a logical stretch to suggest he will playing elsewhere in the near future (whether or not that is the proper decision isn't really my concern here). What I want to know is depending on what type of year Crede has, what can be had for a player of his caliber?

 

As it stands, Crede must be considered one of the top five players at his position in baseball. With a relatively clean bill of health (back concerns), gold glove defensive capabilities, and an offensive game that seems to be coming into its own, Crede has to be considered one of the top players available at his position. My question to you: what does that get you on the trade market (taking into consideration the types of contracts received last off-season as well)?

 

For you prospect fanatics, assuming Crede is traded for prospects (a move I am in no way advocating) can he pry away at least two top prospects from some willing team? How about that SS sensation Wood from the Angels? We all know Moreno's love affair with White Sox players and I really can't find a suitable long-term 3B anywhere in the Angels' system. Is a guy the caliber of Wood a possibility?

 

I really am Brian Anderson'ed out right now; but, I raise the same questions. His stock is at an all-time low. If he were to be traded now, what would he net (I realize he will not be traded in April)? Conversely, if he were to show some glimpses of life with the bat, what could he net?

 

Rock on.

[Balta1701]

The Angels moved Wood to 3rd base this season with the understanding that they have at least 2 guys, probably 3, who will make quality SS, but didn't really have a 3rd baseman except McPherson who is constantly hurt.

 

The Angels are simply not trading Wood for Crede. No chance, no way, no how.

 

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind at all getting a chance to pilfer McPherson away from them while he's hurt, but that would be as a low-level throw-in type guy. Crede to the Angels would have to be built around some piece they might be willing to give up, that we'd want, and that could allow for equal value. From looking at the Angels organization, I think the only guys who might fit that bill are Erick Aybar, Chone Figgins, and Ervin Santana (obviously, the value of those 3 differs significantly).

 

I think it might be possible to construct a fair deal around one of those 3 guys, but that depends on whether or not Mr. Crede starts hitting this season and how desperate the Halos get for another bat.

[hitlesswonder]

As it stands, Crede must be considered one of the top five players at his position in baseball.

 

I like Crede, but he's had one good offensive year and I don't think he's a top 5 3B. He's hitting worse than Erstad right now. I don't think the Sox could get back a prospect in the same galaxy as Brandon Wood (who has been moved to 3B) for him. If his hitting really picks up, I think he could bring a quality prospect like Aybar in return.

 

I really am Brian Anderson'ed out right now; but, I raise the same questions. His stock is at an all-time low. If he were to be traded now, what would he net (I realize he will not be traded in April)? Conversely, if he were to show some glimpses of life with the bat, what could he net?

 

 

In my opinion, zero. Anderson has no trade value right now -- it would be something like a low minors reliever (like what Chris Stewart brought, if that much).

[Balta1701]

Wrong. The back is a major concern. Joe could have had surgery on the back this season, but decided against it. So far this season, he has been awful at the plate. Not very encouraging.

 

And sorry, but he isn't close to being a "Top 5" 3rd basemen.

 

To start.

 

Alex Rodriguez

Miguel Cabrera

David Wright

Ryan Zimmerman

Scott Rolen

Chipper Jones

Eric Chávez

Garrett Atkins

Aramis Ramírez

 

You could then make arguments for guys like Glaus, Mora, Tracy, even a guy like Inge.

I will certainly give you the top 3. Zimmerman though is still developing, even though his contract status makes him more valuable than Mr. Crede, but he has yet to put up numbers like Joe put up last season.. Rolen, Jones, and Chavez have all had major injury issues over the past few years that have decreased their value well below that of Mr. Crede. Ramirez can put up offensive numbers better than Mr. Crede, but his defense is in the toilet and everyone knows it. I don't know that Atkins guy well enough to comment on him.

[LVSoxFan]

Oh PLEASE. Are you effin kidding me? Crede not top 5? On a list where you don't even have the GOLDEN GLOVE WINNER until #7?

 

Pfft. He'll be getting top 5 dollars next year from whomever signs him, trust me.

[elrockinMT]

Joe Crede is a gold glove caliber thirdbaseman period. He is playing stellar defense. The bat is cold right now, but so it is with most of our hitters. Listen to the so called experts on the national sports media and they tell you Crede is a gold glover.

[ZoomSlowik]

I will certainly give you the top 3. Zimmerman though is still developing, even though his contract status makes him more valuable than Mr. Crede, but he has yet to put up numbers like Joe put up last season..

 

Ryan Zimmerman last year- 84 R, 20 HR, 110RBI, .287/.351/.822 in a pitcher's park

 

Joe Crede last year- 76 R, 30 HR, 94 RBI, .283/.323/.829 in a hitter's park and a much stronger lineup

 

Look pretty similar to me...

[Gene Honda Civic]

Pfft. He'll be getting top 5 dollars next year from whomever signs him, trust me.

Can we put money on this. Seriously. I wish I could bet you on this.

 

Crede will make less than Aram, Arod, Rolen, Glaus, Jones, and Chavez. GUARANTEED.

 

AND HE'S NOT A FREE AGENT.

[Capn12]

One good offensive season and now Crede is a god-like third baseman...alrighty then. He is gonna walk, regardless, so maybe we should start the feelers out on him now.

 

And who exactly is going to come in and play CF from the organization if we trade BA at an all time low?

[Balta1701]

Ryan Zimmerman last year- 84 R, 20 HR, 110RBI, .287/.351/.822 in a pitcher's park

 

Joe Crede last year- 76 R, 30 HR, 94 RBI, .283/.323/.829 in a hitter's park and a much stronger lineup

 

Look pretty similar to me...

Well, that's what I get for not looking things up. Ok, I'll give Zimmerman also, that puts Crede in the pack competing for the 5th place slot.

 

Of course, one could make the point that Mr. Crede was performing much better than that until his back went out in September and his numbers dropped, but that all fits into the equation anyway.

[fathom]

Joe Crede is a gold glove caliber thirdbaseman period. He is playing stellar defense. The bat is cold right now, but so it is with most of our hitters. Listen to the so called experts on the national sports media and they tell you Crede is a gold glover.

 

His defense has not been stellar so far this year. Whenever you have more errors than extra base hits, you're not playing very well.

 

One good offensive season and now Crede is a god-like third baseman...alrighty then. He is gonna walk, regardless, so maybe we should start the feelers out on him now.

 

And who exactly is going to come in and play CF from the organization if we trade BA at an all time low?

 

You never hear Crede and "gonna walk" in same sentence.

[Balta1701]

Oh, and on the subject of trading Anderson...trading Brian Anderson right now is, IMO, the stupidest thing this organization could do with any of its young players.

 

The whole reason another team would want Mr. Anderson right now is that he clearly has a lot of talent, but the team trading with us would be expecting the White Sox to have to be the team compeltely biting the bullet on him, so we'd basically be trading him for the value equivalent of what we got back for Joe Borchard - either some minor leaguer with little shot of making the big leagues or a major project case. We got lucky with Thornton because he was out of options and Cooper already liked him...I doubt lightning would strike again.

[DrunkBomber]

One good offensive season and now Crede is a god-like third baseman...alrighty then. He is gonna walk, regardless, so maybe we should start the feelers out on him now.

 

And who exactly is going to come in and play CF from the organization if we trade BA at an all time low?

It doesnt appear its gonna be Anderson anyway.

[Kalapse]

I'll take Chipper Jones and Scott Rolen over Crede in a heartbeat, if you're going to use injury concerns against those 2 then you need to use them against Crede as well. I'm waiting for Joe to show that he can put up consistently above average offensive numbers before I anoint him anymore than an excellent defensive thirdbaseman (something he has not been this year).

 

Aramis is an excellent offensive player and his defense for the past 2 seasons has been atleast serviceable.

 

Atkins is just an outstanding hitter who produced both home and away last year. He's above average defensively.

 

I'm tempted to take Mark Teahen.

 

Adrian Beltre and Hank Blalock are both incredibly similar players to Crede as well, especially when looking at their defensive abilities.

[Kalapse]

Oh PLEASE. Are you effin kidding me? Crede not top 5? On a list where you don't even have the GOLDEN GLOVE WINNER until #7?

Scott Rolen isn't a gold glover? He's one of the greatest defensive thirdbasemen of all time.

 

I know you said you don't know much about Atkins, so I thought I should post his numbers.

 

Atkins in 06- 117 R, 198 H, 29 HR, 120 RBI .329/.409/.965

 

While that is in Colorado, I have a real hard time putting Crede above Atkins.

And to lend credence to these numbers:

 

HOME: .346/.416/.583/.999 | 23 2B | 15 HR

 

AWAY: .313/.402/.531/.933 | 25 2B | 14 HR

 

About equal

[AddisonStSox]

Wrong. The back is a major concern. Joe could have had surgery on the back this season, but decided against it. So far this season, he has been awful at the plate, not even recording an Xtra base hit. Not very encouraging.

 

And sorry, but he isn't close to being a "Top 5" 3rd basemen.

 

To start.

 

Alex Rodriguez

Miguel Cabrera

David Wright

Ryan Zimmerman

Scott Rolen

Chipper Jones

Eric Chávez

Garrett Atkins

Aramis Ramírez

 

You could then make arguments for guys like Glaus, Mora, Tracy, even a guy like Inge.

 

You are delusional

[CWSGuy406]

You can add a couple of guys who can be considered in the vicinity or better than Crede -- Edwin Encarnacion and Alex Gordon. From next year on, Gordon will be the better player, and I'm sure a lot of people will take him over Crede this year. Ditto Encarnacion who was worse than Crede last year -- but not by much -- and figures to be the better player going forward.

 

You are delusional

 

Compelling argument. Tell me why one of those guys SHOULDN'T be considered better than Crede. Please do.

Edited April 19, 2007 by CWSGuy406

[santo=dorf]

I'd take Ensberg, Rolen, Ramirez, Zimmerman, Cabrera, Jones, Wright, Atkins, Beltre, Youkilis, possibly Mike Lowell, Glaus, Tracy, Chavez, possibly Mora, A-Rod, and possibly Teahen over Joeverated

 

Some future canidates to consider; Alex Gordon, Iwamura, and Andy Marte (not me, I think he's a bust.)

[Kalapse]

If Iwamura is truly as good has he has shown the first 2 weeks of the season he is going to be one hell of a player in all facets of the game. He is so much fun to watch.

[NorthSideSox72]

Crede's value on the market for trade this year or free agency after 2008 (not 2007), still has a very wide range of possibilities. If he stays healthy all year and puts up 2006-like numbers with his usual stellar D, then he's definitely Top 10 and close to Top 5 among 3B. If on the other hand he has a 2005-like season, and/or spends time injured, and/or let's his defense go down a bit... then he becomes a middle-of-the-league 3B in value.

[BearSox]

My ideal trade (either during midseason or the offseason) for Crede would be to LAA for Erick Aybar and Dallas McPherson. Then, McPherson could be the back up 1B and kinda platoon with Fields at 3B. McPherson would also be the power lefty off the bench. There is no question that McPherson has the talent, but he has a more severe version of the same back problems Crede does. I think if he could get into good enough shape where he can get a good amount of time, he could be a very good situational player... but that timeframe is closing as he will be 28-29 within a year or so.

 

And Aybar would obviously become our starting SS. Let Uribe walk in the offseason and have Cintron and Ozuna be Aybar's platoon partners at SS.

Edited April 21, 2007 by BearSox

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Apr 19, 2007 -> 01:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wrong. The back is a major concern. Joe could have had surgery on the back this season, but decided against it. So far this season, he has been awful at the plate, not even recording an Xtra base hit. Not very encouraging.

 

And sorry, but he isn't close to being a "Top 5" 3rd basemen.

 

To start.

 

Alex Rodriguez

Miguel Cabrera

David Wright

Ryan Zimmerman

Scott Rolen

Chipper Jones

Eric Chávez

Garrett Atkins

Aramis Ramírez

 

You could then make arguments for guys like Glaus, Mora, Tracy, even a guy like Inge.

 

 

 

I would say he is ahead of all of these guys:

 

 

 

Scott Rolen

Chipper Jones

Eric Chávez

Garrett Atkins

Aramis Ramírez

Glaus

 

Mora

 

Tracy

 

Inge

 

 

 

based on his offense and defense. That would make him top 5. I haven't seen much of Zimmerman to base an opinion, but his stats are impressive.

[DBAHO]

Offensively he's not a top 5 3rd baseman. Cabrera, Wright, Zimmerman, A-Rod and Aramis Ramirez would probably be the 5-some there, although you could argue for Atkins over Zimmerman (I expect Ryan to keep improving though).

 

Defensively he certainly is though.

 

So where does that put him in the shape of things? Somewhere around the middle. He's not a top 5 guy for mine, but he's certainly in the top 10, be around the 6-8 mark I'd say.

 

Can't see the Angels trading for him when;

a) They'd rather get a Miggy Tejada or A-Rod as that major bat besides Vladdy and;

B) Brandon Wood is coming along.

 

But I think in the off-season he will probably be dealt, and Fields will take over. Crede for some young pitching I'd imagine.

 

Teams that would be interested, the Padres (if Kouzmakoof (didn't spell that right)) didn't come along this season, the D-Backs (if they traded Chad Tracy), the Brewers if they move Ryan Braun to an OF spot, the Dodgers because Colletti likes his vets and he's traded prospects so a player like LaRoche could be traded etc. so there are certainly a lot of possibilities still in a deal.

[Kalapse]

Can someone give me one reason why Joe Crede is a better player than Scott Rolen? He's had atleast 500 ABs 5 out of the last 6 season and he's had atleast an .860 OPS in each of those seasons including a year with a .910 another at .883 and a 483 AB season where his OPS topped .920 all while playing some of the best defense you are ever going to see at the position.

 

Joe has had 1 season with an OPS over .760.

 

Chipper Jones put up a 1.005 OPS last season in 477 PAs or 6 more PAs than Joe had in 2005. He's also a switch hitter and has put up a 140+ OPS+ in 8 of the last 9 seasons.

 

Alex Rodriguez

Miguel Cabrera

David Wright

Ryan Zimmerman

Scott Rolen

Chipper Jones

Garrett Atkins

 

. . . easy

 

And I can make a case for quite a few more considering Crede's back problems and 1 above average offensive season.

[sircaffey]

It's amazing to me how much Crede's offensive output is overrated. Everyone's been starving for something from him for years, that when he gives something, it seems like he put up Silver Slugger type numbers. .283/.323/.506 in one of the best hitting ballparks and in one of the best offensive lineups.