No Witty Title

[CWSGuy406]

Scott Rolen

Chipper Jones

Eric Chávez

Garrett Atkins

Aramis Ramírez

Glaus

 

Rolen? Are you f***ing kidding? That's gotta be a joke.

 

Chipper Jones? If you think that Crede's glove makes up for the .125 point difference in their OPS', that's your perrogative. I live in reality, though -- Jones is MUCH better.

 

Eric Chavez? Funny. His two worst seasons (2005 and 2006) are just about as good as Crede's best season. And the gloves are the same.

 

Atkins? I can see that, but if he repeats his 2006 season, Atkins is better.

 

Ramirez? This ones closer, but I'd still take A-Ram. You're still talking about a .100 point difference in OPS between the two guys.

 

Glaus? Same as A-Ram.

 

I haven't seen one person actually put up a good argument for why Crede is better than these guys. Sort of same as the Guillen/Aderson arguments... people don't actually defend anthing, they just pull this red herring bulls*** arguments.

[beautox]

If Iwamura is truly as good has he has shown the first 2 weeks of the season he is going to be one hell of a player in all facets of the game. He is so much fun to watch.

 

best FA signing this offseason,ii think we will see Longoria moved to 1B if Iwamura is the real deal.

[Capn12]

best FA signing this offseason,ii think we will see Longoria moved to 1B if Iwamura is the real deal.

 

No no. that title CLEARLY belongs to a certain leadoff CF grinder, who is putting up a .163/.236/.224/.460 clip!

[beautox]

on a side note, i see Joe getting moved to the NL(giants/phillies) in my eyes Joe Crede's value is 2 b level 'specs.

 

from the phillies the following come to mind.

 

MI Adrian Cardenas

 

RHP Kyle Drabek

 

From the Giants

 

2B Kevin Frandsen

 

LHP Jonathan Sanchez great stuff but hes been sent to the giants pen, hes also had some health issues. They've already got Zito, Cain, Morris, Ortiz and soon enough Lincecum.

 

 

As for Anderson, i could see the braves as a good fit for him.

 

from the braves side i think we would have to send a little bit of pitching along with Brian to get Jarrod Saltalamacchia.

 

Jones is a FA after this season, and they have on one ready to step in with a glove. i still think brian becomes a decent hitter 270/280 with 30HR.

 

Saltalamacchia is a switch hitting catcher, and he has .300avg 30HR potential and a solid glove behind the plate.

[witesoxfan]

on a side note, i see Joe getting moved to the NL(giants/phillies) in my eyes Joe Crede's value is 2 b level 'specs.

 

from the phillies the following come to mind.

 

MI Adrian Cardenas

 

RHP Kyle Drabek

 

From the Giants

 

2B Kevin Frandsen

 

LHP Jonathan Sanchez great stuff but hes been sent to the giants pen, hes also had some health issues. They've already got Zito, Cain, Morris, Ortiz and soon enough Lincecum.

As for Anderson, i could see the braves as a good fit for him.

 

from the braves side i think we would have to send a little bit of pitching along with Brian to get Jarrod Saltalamacchia.

 

Jones is a FA after this season, and they have on one ready to step in with a glove. i still think brian becomes a decent hitter 270/280 with 30HR.

 

Saltalamacchia is a switch hitting catcher, and he has .300avg 30HR potential and a solid glove behind the plate.

 

I'd make love to both trades. However, I'm not sure Anderson's value is high enough to get a prospect of Saltalamacchia's value. And Crede will have to turn it around and repeat his performance last year to even get two B prospects. Also, if this is Bonds' last year with the Giants, they'll rebuild, that I have to imagine. Without Bonds, I don't think that team is close to competitive.

[SoxAce]

on a side note, i see Joe getting moved to the NL(giants/phillies) in my eyes Joe Crede's value is 2 b level 'specs.

 

from the phillies the following come to mind.

 

MI Adrian Cardenas

 

RHP Kyle Drabek

 

From the Giants

 

2B Kevin Frandsen

 

LHP Jonathan Sanchez great stuff but hes been sent to the giants pen, hes also had some health issues. They've already got Zito, Cain, Morris, Ortiz and soon enough Lincecum.

As for Anderson, i could see the braves as a good fit for him.

 

from the braves side i think we would have to send a little bit of pitching along with Brian to get Jarrod Saltalamacchia.

 

Jones is a FA after this season, and they have on one ready to step in with a glove. i still think brian becomes a decent hitter 270/280 with 30HR.

 

Saltalamacchia is a switch hitting catcher, and he has .300avg 30HR potential and a solid glove behind the plate.

 

God damn those are hellova options. I can probably see one of those trades working too. My man love for you just increased. I still don't wanna talk about trades this early in the season but It's all fun and games right now I guess.

[beautox]

I'd make love to both trades. However, I'm not sure Anderson's value is high enough to get a prospect of Saltalamacchia's value. And Crede will have to turn it around and repeat his performance last year to even get two B prospects. Also, if this is Bonds' last year with the Giants, they'll rebuild, that I have to imagine. Without Bonds, I don't think that team is close to competitive.

 

If he starts getting regular playing time either at the mlb or milb level it will be. I agree, joe will have to put up a year similar to last to get 2 B level prospects, but hes entering his prime and even though he has started out cold i have faith in him.

 

what are they going to rebuild with? their pitching is there but they have no positional players, and they're not going to rebuild after signing zito to that deal 7 years/$126M. they're two years away from rebuilding, itd be better for them to flounder in mediocrity and hope they can get the WC.

 

C - Bengie Molina (07-09)

1B - Rich Aurilia (07-08)

2B - Ray Durham (07-08)

SS - Omar Vizquel (05-07)

3B - Pedro Feliz (07)

LF - Barry Bonds (07)

CF - Dave Roberts (07-09)

RF - Randy Winn (07-09)

[witesoxfan]

If he starts getting regular playing time either at the mlb or milb level it will be. I agree, joe will have to put up a year similar to last to get 2 B level prospects, but hes entering his prime and even though he has started out cold i have faith in him.

 

what are they going to rebuild with? their pitching is there but they have no positional players, and they're not going to rebuild after signing zito to that deal 7 years/$126M. they're two years away from rebuilding, itd be better for them to flounder in mediocrity and hope they can get the WC.

 

C - Bengie Molina (07-09)

1B - Rich Aurilia (07-08)

2B - Ray Durham (07-08)

SS - Omar Vizquel (05-07)

3B - Pedro Feliz (07)

LF - Barry Bonds (07)

CF - Dave Roberts (07-09)

RF - Randy Winn (07-09)

 

Well, I'd kind of forgotten about Zito, I'll admit that, but they would be much better off rebuilding come next year. There just seems to be an all-around lack of talent on that major league roster, and while I'm not informed on their system, it seems as though I've heard there's not much there. At the very least, for the Giants to remain even in mediocrity, they'll need to bring in a huge bat in LF to remain solid, and I just don't see them competing regardless of that. The DBacks are just ridiculously loaded for the next 4-5 years or so, the Dodgers look like they'll be contenders for atleast a couple years, the Padres have a ton of young pitching (partly because of that park), and the Rockies aren't a bad team by any means either.

 

I just hope KW wises up and sends Anderson to AAA so he can salvage some of his value. Atleast see if he can still hit or not; rotting on the bench will do him no good. I would have not cared in the least if Anderson were on the MLB roster if he were getting 2-3 starts a week, but 1 start a week isn't gonna cut it.

[beautox]

Well, I'd kind of forgotten about Zito, I'll admit that, but they would be much better off rebuilding come next year. There just seems to be an all-around lack of talent on that major league roster, and while I'm not informed on their system, it seems as though I've heard there's not much there. At the very least, for the Giants to remain even in mediocrity, they'll need to bring in a huge bat in LF to remain solid, and I just don't see them competing regardless of that. The DBacks are just ridiculously loaded for the next 4-5 years or so, the Dodgers look like they'll be contenders for atleast a couple years, the Padres have a ton of young pitching (partly because of that park), and the Rockies aren't a bad team by any means either.

 

I just hope KW wises up and sends Anderson to AAA so he can salvage some of his value. Atleast see if he can still hit or not; rotting on the bench will do him no good. I would have not cared in the least if Anderson were on the MLB roster if he were getting 2-3 starts a week, but 1 start a week isn't gonna cut it.

 

Honestly i think the giants are the best fit for moving Crede. Even after moving Kevin Frandsen they still have Marcus Sanders who is just 20 years old, and who would be ready to take over 2B when Durham is a FA.

 

As for Jonathan Sanchez hes 24yr old with a good fastball(90-95) great slider, great change. The problem is hes a health risk and he is very inconsistent he's as likely to strike out the side as he is walk them.

 

If we acquired Frandsen we could let Iguchi walk along with Dye. Then we have options

 

looking over Kalapse's payroll sheet, even if we exercise Uribe's option(5mil) our '08 payroll is only 75.625mil that leaves a difference of 20.775mil between the 07 & 08 payroll and im not sure what happened with the 10mil we saved from unloading Garcia to the Phillies and the revenue generated by the new CBA agreement, mlb is in a golden era.

 

its apparent we're going to need 1 possibly 2 OFers depending on what happens to Brian and Scott.

 

i see Ichiro getting a deal similar to this 3 years/$39M, he is 33 years old.

 

that would bring our payroll to 88.625mil.

 

They could also sign Andruw Jones who i see getting a deal similar to Soriano 8 years/$136M. The sox can afford that too, and with Dye leaving he could be a staple for us in the OF and allow us to keep our production up.

 

We could also let mark walk and deal Jose, freeing up another 10mil for the next two years and getting more pieces(SS/2B?, SP?, C?) If we did that we would be able to sign both Ichiro and Jones, our staff would take a hit but i can see our arms down on the farm pushing KW's hand.

[witesoxfan]

Honestly i think the giants are the best fit for moving Crede. Even after moving Kevin Frandsen they still have Marcus Sanders who is just 20 years old, and who would be ready to take over 2B when Durham is a FA.

 

As for Jonathan Sanchez hes 24yr old with a good fastball(90-95) great slider, great change. The problem is hes a health risk and he is very inconsistent he's as likely to strike out the side as he is walk them.

 

If we acquired Frandsen we could let Iguchi walk along with Dye. Then we have options

 

looking over Kalapse's payroll sheet, even if we exercise Uribe's option(5mil) our '08 payroll is only 75.625mil that leaves a difference of 20.775mil between the 07 & 08 payroll and im not sure what happened with the 10mil we saved from unloading Garcia to the Phillies and the revenue generated by the new CBA agreement, mlb is in a golden era.

 

its apparent we're going to need 1 possibly 2 OFers depending on what happens to Brian and Scott.

 

i see Ichiro getting a deal similar to this 3 years/$39M, he is 33 years old.

 

that would bring our payroll to 88.625mil.

 

They could also sign Andruw Jones who i see getting a deal similar to Soriano 8 years/$136M. The sox can afford that too, and with Dye leaving he could be a staple for us in the OF and allow us to keep our production up.

 

We could also let mark walk and deal Jose, freeing up another 10mil for the next two years and getting more pieces(SS/2B?, SP?, C?) If we did that we would be able to sign both Ichiro and Jones, our staff would take a hit but i can see our arms down on the farm pushing KW's hand.

 

I'd be happy as hell with the possible team you're throwing out there; it's a balanced offensive attack, it keeps Ozzie's speed while fulfilling a great leadoff man at the top of the order, it keeps the power on the team at about the same level and gives the Sox a consistent CFer to the team (and is a guy that KW loves), it would obviously require the Sox to trade Anderson, but then Fields can come up at 3B and Sweeney in LF and there's not a whole ton of risk due to the additions of Ichiro and Andruw and just how good those two really are. I don't think Ichiro is going to sign for $13 mill a year - closer to $15 mill, and he might get a 4th year - but I'd love it.

 

However, for whatever reason, it just seems to me that KW really does not believe in spending a ton of money for a top of the order hitter, and he insists on finding diamonds in the rough to leadoff for the team. D'Angelo Jimenez, Kenny Lofton (who was coming off a ridiculously mediocre year), Roberto Alomar, Willie Harris, Scott Podsednik - he's just never gotten a big name leadoff hitter, and I don't expect it to start happening next year.

 

Honestly, if the Sox are to make a big move or two in the next few years, I see it being either ARod or Cabrera - both of whom I'd be ecstatic with. I get the feeling KW is going to see if ARod opts out, and if he does, he'll throw wheelbarrows full of money at him. As I recall, Boras clients usually opt out of their deals rather quickly, and ARod should do it within the first few days of free agency next year. That'll give KW some time to determine whether he should make a push to retain Iguchi, Dye, and Buehrle, or whether he should gather that money together and go after ARod. It'd be putting all of his eggs into one basket, but he'd be in on it and that I don't doubt at all. I also see Figgins in CF for the Sox within the next year, perhaps as soon as the ASB, especially if the Angels determine they don't need him. Whether CF or LF would be better for him, I'm not sure - likely LF - but it seems that KW likes him.

 

Anyways, I kind of rambled, but like I said, I really like what you would have going for the team, I just don't think it is happening. Maybe it's KW's goal to get me thinking like he has, but it is only April, so who knows.

Edited April 20, 2007 by witesoxfan

[caulfield12]

One good offensive season and now Crede is a god-like third baseman...alrighty then. He is gonna walk, regardless, so maybe we should start the feelers out on him now.

 

And who exactly is going to come in and play CF from the organization if we trade BA at an all time low?

 

 

Adrian Beltre. Need I say more?

[Kalapse]

Adrian Beltre. Need I say more?

Speaking of Adrian Beltre, I'd take him over Crede as well. Even last season, a year that wasn't considered all that great by mainstream baseball fans Adrian put up nearly identical numbers to Crede, right down to the 108 OPS+. Adrian is an incredibly skilled defensive player, is a year younger than Crede, actually has some wheels and has put up a season that makes you think there is some ultra-elite offensive player hiding inside him. He also has a clean bill of health, playing in atleast 156 games each of the past 5 seasons.

[witesoxfan]

Speaking of Adrian Beltre, I'd take him over Crede as well. Even last season, a year that wasn't considered all that great by mainstream baseball fans Adrian put up nearly identical numbers to Crede, right down to the 108 OPS+. Adrian is an incredibly skilled defensive player, is a year younger than Crede, actually has some wheels and has put up a season that makes you think there is some ultra-elite offensive player hiding inside him. He also has a clean bill of health, playing in atleast 156 games each of the past 5 seasons.

 

That was a down year in an adjustment period too. Crede's year was considered a breakthrough.

 

Beltre has the potential to be a top 10 hitter in the majors too, and probably top 5 overall player. That was one move I really can't question Bavasi for making, but I love Adrian Beltre.

[beck72]

Joe isn't going anywhere. Not unless the sox are far, far out of it come the deadline. His kind of stellar d is what will keep the sox pitchers in games. And his bat will heat up.

 

And Brian's trade value is at an all time low.

 

Speaking of Adrian Beltre, I'd take him over Crede as well. Even last season, a year that wasn't considered all that great by mainstream baseball fans Adrian put up nearly identical numbers to Crede, right down to the 108 OPS+. Adrian is an incredibly skilled defensive player, is a year younger than Crede, actually has some wheels and has put up a season that makes you think there is some ultra-elite offensive player hiding inside him. He also has a clean bill of health, playing in atleast 156 games each of the past 5 seasons.

Beltre--nothing like hitting the juice in a contract year. Crede is a much better fit on the sox than a guy like Beltre.

[Kalapse]

Beltre--nothing like hitting the juice in a contract year. Crede is a much better fit on the sox than a guy like Beltre.

So now he's clean and still putting up equal numbers to Crede. What does that even mean, better fit? He's an equal or better hitter with huge offensive potential, a year younger, much faster, has no injury concerns at all and is a similar defensive player. I don't see why having a huge contract year should be a negative when judging him as a player now.

[beck72]

So now he's clean and still putting up equal numbers to Crede. What does that even mean, better fit? He's an equal or better hitter with huge offensive potential, a year younger, much faster, has no injury concerns at all and is a similar defensive player. I don't see why having a huge contract year should be a negative when judging him as a player now.

The point is, I'm sure Beltre isn't even on the Sox minds--his huge contract and probable roid use are just two reasons. The sox have Fields for 3b.

[GreenSox]

Trading at low value and buying at peak value, is no way to do business. There's nothing to be gained from trading Anderson.

We seem to have a lot of pitching depth....if some of our middle relievers have great years, I'd trade a couple of them at peak value and replace them with some of our good arms in the minors. Use them or lose them. Actually, it would take some stones, but teams really overpay for middle relievers in July - with the right deal, we might consider sending one packing.

This team desparately needs a leadoff hitter. Even if Erstad is tolerable in CF, that toleration is with him at the 8 spot in the order.

Crede is not a top 5 3B, but he's also better than stiffs like Mike Lowell.

[shawnhillegas]

I would say he is ahead of all of these guys:

 

 

 

Scott Rolen

Chipper Jones

Eric Chávez

Garrett Atkins

Aramis Ramírez

Glaus

 

Mora

 

Tracy

 

Inge

 

 

 

based on his offense and defense. That would make him top 5. I haven't seen much of Zimmerman to base an opinion, but his stats are impressive.

 

 

 

I just dont understand how you can argue that Crede is better than Ramirez, Chipper Jones, Garret Atkins or Scott Rolen. I honestly dont think a single GM would take Crede over ANY of those guys. This is HAWK homerism at its worst here.

[witesoxfan]

The point is, I'm sure Beltre isn't even on the Sox minds--his huge contract and probable roid use are just two reasons. The sox have Fields for 3b.

 

and he's still better than Crede.

[Kalapse]

The point is, I'm sure Beltre isn't even on the Sox minds--his huge contract and probable roid use are just two reasons. The sox have Fields for 3b.

This has nothing to do with acquiring players, I'm merely rating them on their performance and skill sets, listing players who I believe to be superior to Crede. I'm not sure what thread you're reading.

[beck72]

and he's still better than Crede.

Not for the difference in salary.

 

This has nothing to do with acquiring players, I'm merely rating them on their performance and skill sets, listing players who I believe to be superior to Crede. I'm not sure what thread you're reading.

 

When you said you'd "take him over Crede", I thought it was with building a sox team in mind.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Who cares if all these guys are better than Crede? How many of these dudes dominated an entire postseason the way Crede did in 2005? How many of these guys have come through in the clutch like Crede? From Septemeber of '05 through Septemer of '06; there wasn't a better 3-bagger in baseball than Mr. Crede.

Edited April 22, 2007 by Jordan4life_2007

[witesoxfan]

Not for the difference in salary.

 

Talk to me in 2 years when Beltre's hitting 35 plus and Crede's putting up mediocre numbers for Anaheim.

 

Who cares if all these guys are better than Crede? How many of these dudes dominated an entire postseason the way Crede did in 2005? How many of these guys have come through in the clutch like Crede? From Septemeber of '05 through Septemer of '06; there wasn't a better 3-bagger in baseball than Mr. Crede.

 

I'm not sure anyone dominanted an entire postseason like Crede did. I'm still not sure where the Sox are at without Contreras or Buehrle or Garland or Garcia or Podsednik or Konerko or Dye or Pierzynski...get the point?

 

and BTW, ARod says hi, just as an example

[Jordan4life_2007]

Talk to me in 2 years when Beltre's hitting 35 plus and Crede's putting up mediocre numbers for Anaheim.

I'm not sure anyone dominanted an entire postseason like Crede did. I'm still not sure where the Sox are at without Contreras or Buehrle or Garland or Garcia or Podsednik or Konerko or Dye or Pierzynski...get the point?

 

and BTW, ARod says hi, just as an example

 

Pods? You're giving Pods love? And pitchers can only dominate once every 4-5 days. Crede was our best all around player in the postseason. Do I have to even list the number of times he's come through in the clutch? I don't care who's argubly better than him. He's been an asset to the Sox. And lol@A-rod. He can't spell postseason. What are his numbers again the last few years in the playoffs. That's not to say Crede is as good as A-rod. He's not. But I stand by my belief that from September '05 through September '06; Crede was the best third baseman in the game.

[beck72]

Talk to me in 2 years when Beltre's hitting 35 plus and Crede's putting up mediocre numbers for Anaheim.

Beltre isn't worth the $12 mill he's getting for the next 3 yrs. Is Crede worth that much? No. Is Joe worth the $4.95 mill he's getting, and the likely $6 mill he'll get in ARB for 2008? Probably. Yet the sox are likely to go with the Josh Fields experiment in 2008, and not see much of a drop off

 

Seattle's paying Beltre to be a #3, 4 hitter but he's producing like a #6, 7 hitter. That isn't likely to change much, and is probably why they have been trying to unload his contract.