I pray that Kenny trades Erstad for a $1 bill

[SleepyWhiteSox]

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Apr 22, 2007 -> 06:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is every player in baseball a superstar or did I miss something ? As with most of the posters who support Erstad (and there are way more then the louder more obnoxious ones might have u think) we just support the team as a whole and try to leave the managing and general manging to the experts of which you are not one.

That's great. I, as an Erstad basher, also support the team and know that I can't do anything to prevent the manager from playing his ass. I want the White Sox to be the best team possible, which it why I am upset for how they are handling Erstad.

[Flash Tizzle]

Is every player in baseball a superstar or did I miss something ? As with most of the posters who support Erstad (and there are way more then the louder more obnoxious ones might have u think) we just support the team as a whole and try to leave the managing and general manging to the experts of which you are not one.

I believe a common misconception among baseball fans is a general manager and manager have to be considered "experts" since, after all, they do hold a valuable baseball position.

 

Williams? I would consider him an expert.

 

Guillen? Not so much. I'm convinced half this board could make gut decisions and hold grudges against younger players.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Who cares about his base running skills if he doesn't get on base?

This team has more than enough leadership. We need less bad baseball players in order to be successful.

 

So an expert talent evaluator such as yourself only needs 16 games to know Erstad won't hit .275 for the whole season ?

 

I believe a common misconception among baseball fans is a general manager and manager have to be considered "experts" since, after all, they do hold a valuable baseball position.

 

Williams? I would consider him an expert.

 

Guillen? Not so much. I'm convinced half this board could make gut decisions and hold grudges against younger players.

 

I have to agree with you there. Especially the part about half the board. They might be no better than Guillen when it comes to having favorite players and be just as stubborn about who they play and why. But Guillen really is an expert because of his insight on what makes a good major league player. He's been there done that. None of us have and as in most things in life you are more valuable with experience.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Apr 22, 2007 -> 06:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So an expert talent evaluator such as yourself only needs 16 games to know Erstad won't hit .275 for the whole season ?

...and as an expert talent evaluator such as yourself only needs 16 games to know Erstad will hit at least .275 for the whole season?

 

He's only batted .275 or better in 5 of the seasons in which he started on the opening day rosters. He's been hurt multiple times over the years and it's clearly obvious he is a shell of his former self. Batting average only tell half the story with getting on base too. In 2002 he had a .289 BA but a .313 OBP. That sucks

 

He's on the downside of his career and all he shown offesnsively at this point in his career is the ability to a hit a ground ball.

 

Assuming he has 600 at-bats (God I hope not because of that option,) Grinderstad would have to bat .284 the rest of the way. He's only batted .284 or better in a season once since his fluke 2000 season SEVEN FISHING YEARS AGO.

Edited April 22, 2007 by santo=dorf

[witesoxfan]

So an expert talent evaluator such as yourself only needs 16 games to know Erstad won't hit .275 for the whole season ?

I have to agree with you there. Especially the part about half the board. They might be no better than Guillen when it comes to having favorite players and be just as stubborn about who they play and why. But Guillen really is an expert because of his insight on what makes a good major league player. He's been there done that. None of us have and as in most things in life you are more valuable with experience.

 

uhhhh...???

[caulfield12]

It's the only way to get him off of the field.

 

 

 

I don't really have anything against Erstad. I'd like Erstad as a fourth OF and backup 1B. I wouldn't mind using the rare managerial trade to ship Ozzie to anywhere on Earth, either. I'm tired of having a manager that thinks what "the team needs" is an automatic grounder hit right to the second baseman every at-bat with weak-to-mediocre defense in center field.

 

Anyone else believe that Ozzie is watching Erstad's game tape from 2000? I can't believe that I spent all of 2005 thinking that Ozzie and "grinding" was part of the reason we won. I feel dirty!

 

Which is one dollar more than you could get for Brian Anderson. Parents can "gift" a car to a child for $1 and a change of the title, but we can't find a taker for BA I'm afraid.

 

Even the DET announcers mentioned he was "nonchalant" about fielding Inge's "double." Everyone in baseball (except BA) knows that Inge can run as well as any corner infielder in MLB.

 

And I've NEVER seen BA try to change his approach at the plate. I don't care if you sit on the bench or are part of the bullpen unexpectedly (McCarthy's excuse), you can't take Crede/Rowand 2002 swings and just flail away up there without making an attempt to shorten up your swing and go the other way, like Crede did against Zumaya yesterday.

 

uhhhh...???

 

 

Simple. There's "potential" and there's a baseball player. BA is like Borchard right now, a gifted athlete who happens to have chosen baseball. Even if he's no longer a great player, Erstad intuitively understands situations on the field, and does what it takes to get the job done, such as hustling out of the box to prevent a double play.

 

I think Ozzie realizes BA would just be another "free swinger" at the bottom of the order and he was hoping that Pods and Erstad at the top of the order would rub off on the mentality of the rest of the team. I think Uribe has that ability to at least understand how to get a runner in from 3rd with two outs or less...at least he does it better than anyone on our team, despite his other AB's throughout a game.

[alk3kevin]

Are you really that dense Caulfield? I'm sorry if I'm not impressed with Erstad's ability to hustle. BA hustled out a groundball today too, should he get some more pt cause of that?

 

If Pods and Erstad rub off on the rest of the order I'll jump off a f***ing bridge. f*** this manager, and f*** KW for not having the balls to show Ozzie some stats.

[SoxFanForever]

Simple. There's "potential" and there's a baseball player. BA is like Borchard right now, a gifted athlete who happens to have chosen baseball. Even if he's no longer a great player, Erstad intuitively understands situations on the field, and does what it takes to get the job done, such as hustling out of the box to prevent a double play.

 

I think Ozzie realizes BA would just be another "free swinger" at the bottom of the order and he was hoping that Pods and Erstad at the top of the order would rub off on the mentality of the rest of the team. I think Uribe has that ability to at least understand how to get a runner in from 3rd with two outs or less...at least he does it better than anyone on our team, despite his other AB's throughout a game.

That really made me "lol". Thank you.

[Capn12]

Man...

 

I've been one of the biggest Prancer/grindErstad bashers and BA supporters on these boards, and even I'M getting tired of this same old song and dance talk every day about who should play CF, Pods/BA/GrindErstad sucks, blah blah..

[AddisonStSox]

I believe a common misconception among baseball fans is a general manager and manager have to be considered "experts" since, after all, they do hold a valuable baseball position.

 

Williams? I would consider him an expert.

 

Guillen? Not so much. I'm convinced half this board could make gut decisions and hold grudges against younger players.

 

 

This has officially reached absurdity.

 

Who are the experts then, hot shot, the guys that wrote your Baseball America?

 

There is a reason those guys write Baseball America and you post on a message board and Ozzie Guillen and Kenny Williams are employed by professional baseball team.

 

I understand that this is a message board, aimed at baseball discussion regarding your team of choice. However, every day I'm seeing some teenager proclaim to know more baseball than a manager of a professional baseball team.

 

This amuses me. I am terribly amused.

 

...oh, and by the way. Erstad sucks! Start Brian N. Anderson!!!111!!! He's young and blond!

[whitesoxgirl0838]

 

This has officially reached absurdity.

 

Who are the experts then, hot shot, the guys that wrote your Baseball America?

 

There is a reason those guys write Baseball America and you post on a message board and Ozzie Guillen and Kenny Williams are employed by professional baseball team.

 

I understand that this is a message board, aimed at baseball discussion regarding your team of choice. However, every day I'm seeing some teenager proclaim to know more baseball than a manager of a professional baseball team.

 

This amuses me. I am terribly amused.

 

...oh, and by the way. Erstad sucks! Start Brian N. Anderson!!!111!!! He's young and blond!

hahahaha...man. i love dumb people just as much as u do...GO ERSTAD!

[witesoxfan]

hahahaha...man. i love dumb people just as much as u do...GO ERSTAD!

 

I do too

 

<_>

[alk3kevin]

He's so f***ing terrible. Why on earth isn't BA given a consistent opportunity when he beat the s*** out of Erstad in spring training, Addison? Explain this to me.

 

Also, I'm fairly sure I could outmanage Oswaldo---but next time there's a managerial search that considers anyone who isn't a "baseball guy" (i.e. former player who doesn't know s***), let me know.

[AddisonStSox]

He's so f***ing terrible. Why on earth isn't BA given a consistent opportunity when he beat the s*** out of Erstad in spring training, Addison? Explain this to me.

 

Also, I'm fairly sure I could outmanage Oswaldo---but next time there's a managerial search that considers anyone who isn't a "baseball guy" (i.e. former player who doesn't know s***), let me know.

 

Case in point.

 

Out.

[Capn12]

Case in point.

 

Out.

Thanks for stopping by the Jungle!!

 

Out!

 

[alk3kevin]

Thanks for the reply Addison. Your only response to any of this has been that Ozzie is the manager so he is infallible. Contrary to popular belief, he sucks ass.

[spiderman]

He's so f***ing terrible. Why on earth isn't BA given a consistent opportunity when he beat the s*** out of Erstad in spring training, Addison? Explain this to me.

 

Also, I'm fairly sure I could outmanage Oswaldo---but next time there's a managerial search that considers anyone who isn't a "baseball guy" (i.e. former player who doesn't know s***), let me know.

 

I'm holdng out hope that Erstad can at least get his average up into the .260 range, but there's a good chance that he's just not much of a player anymore. It looks like he can still play the OF, but I think Guillen just wants the veteran out there, even if the production is similar to last year's.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

hahahaha...man. i love dumb people just as much as u do...GO ERSTAD!

 

Welcome to Soxtalk !

[Buehrle>Wood]

Case in point.

 

Out.

I'd like to see you answer his question: "Why on earth isn't BA given a consistent opportunity?"

[spiderman]

I'd like to see you answer his question: "Why on earth isn't BA given a consistent opportunity?"

 

The answer, I believe, is because Erstad is a veteran player who doesn't make rookie mistakes. He knows how to play the game, and he's a gamer. That's not to say he's going to put numbers that are any better than what Anderson did last season, but from Guillen's standpoint, its choosing the veteran who has a track record of being a gritty player, or the rookie who didn't play very well last season.

 

I've said it before, I don't have an issue with Erstad winning the job, but I don't think he should be above losing the job if his performance dictates that. I don't want Guillen sticking with him just because he's a veteran.

 

Even if Erstad does play well enough to keep his job, I want Anderson starting 1-2x a week just to keep Erstad fresh as he does have the injury history. I also want that to be the case for Thome and A.J at catcher as well. I have no issue with letting Mackowiak DH once a week - last year, Thome had a great first half, but injuries caught up to him, and his numbers fell off in the 2nd half. Mackowiak can hit - yes, he's not Thome, but I think some of our more veteran players with injury histories, need to be given time off to stay fresh.

[Flash Tizzle]

 

This has officially reached absurdity.

 

Who are the experts then, hot shot, the guys that wrote your Baseball America?

 

Yes. As well as the writers from Baseball America, Hardball Times, Baseball Think Factory, and whichever free-lance scout signed Francisco Liriano.

 

There is a reason those guys write Baseball America and you post on a message board and Ozzie Guillen and Kenny Williams are employed by professional baseball team.

 

Of course there is. Guillen and Williams knew the right people, played professional baseball, and were afforded the opportunity to continue within the sport beyond their playing days.

I understand that this is a message board, aimed at baseball discussion regarding your team of choice. However, every day I'm seeing some teenager proclaim to know more baseball than a manager of a professional baseball team.

 

This amuses me. I am terribly amused.

 

I don't know for sure whether or not I know more about baseball then Guillen. I do know from his on-field decision making he's hardly a genius. Which is what I originally addressed.

 

...oh, and by the way. Erstad sucks! Start Brian N. Anderson!!!111!!! He's young and blond!

[hitlesswonder]

I'd like to see you answer his question: "Why on earth isn't BA given a consistent opportunity?"

 

Erstad is a better player than Anderson right now. The best CF on the roster is starting everyday. The two problems with that are

 

1. I don't think the best CF on the roster is good.

2. Erstad shouldn't be anywhere near the top of the order.

 

After Anderson's lack of hustle in the OF today, I think he should be in Charlotte or simply waived. It seems like he may have given up on the Sox, and he should get a shot to turn it around someplace else. Williams needs to be looking for a starting CF.

[caulfield12]

Yes. As well as the writers from Baseball America, Hardball Times, Baseball Think Factory, and whichever free-lance scout signed Francisco Liriano.

Of course there is. Guillen and Williams knew the right people, played professional baseball, and were afforded the opportunity to continue within the sport beyond their playing days.

I don't know for sure whether or not I know more about baseball then Guillen. I do know from his on-field decision making he's hardly a genius. Which is what I originally addressed.

 

What I would like to know is what BA is actually responsible for today? Anything?

 

Apparently, every mistake (even defensively) is excused because of inconsistent playing time and Ozzie's "vendetta" against BA, which was exemplified (to BA supporters) by his comments about Erstad being a better defender (for now).

 

I wonder what would happen if Erstad broke his ankle tomorrow, BA hit .220 for 2 months, and his supporters would still be saying "Ozzie didn't want him to succeed, he would be better off in that Texas clubhouse."

 

 

 

 

Erstad is a better player than Anderson right now. The best CF on the roster is starting everyday. The two problems with that are

 

1. I don't think the best CF on the roster is good.

2. Erstad shouldn't be anywhere near the top of the order.

 

After Anderson's lack of hustle in the OF today, I think he should be in Charlotte or simply waived. It seems like he may have given up on the Sox, and he should get a shot to turn it around someplace else. Williams needs to be looking for a starting CF.

 

Well, Gathright and Baldelli are it...unless you prefer Willits?

[witesoxfan]

I wonder what would happen if Erstad broke his ankle tomorrow, BA hit .220 for 2 months, and his supporters would still be saying "Ozzie didn't want him to succeed, he would be better off in that Texas clubhouse."

 

.220 is one number. If he hits .220 with 8 homers in those 2 months and puts up an OPS around .750, he'll be successful. If not, then I'd own up and say he sucked, Ozzie was right, and I was wrong. What else am I going to do?

 

And getting a real CFer is still the best option for this team.