I pray that Kenny trades Erstad for a $1 bill

[Chisoxfn]

If Ozzie refuses to play him, he has to be sent down. You have to agree he needs consistent at-bats.

I expect Terrero to be up soon and I think Terrero will be a much more valuable bench player too. But I could give a crap what Anderson thinks. I hope he realizes he needs to start busting his ass and proving to everyone that he's learned from his rookie mistakes (and I'm not talking about his play on the field...that part is obvious, but to make process in that he's going to have to improve in how he handles himself and how he prepares for the games and works on fixing his flaws).

[Heads22]

I expect Terrero to be up soon and I think Terrero will be a much more valuable bench player too. But I could give a crap what Anderson thinks. I hope he realizes he needs to start busting his ass and proving to everyone that he's learned from his rookie mistakes (and I'm not talking about his play on the field...that part is obvious, but to make process in that he's going to have to improve in how he handles himself and how he prepares for the games and works on fixing his flaws).

 

Have you been hearing something or is this general conjecture from last year or what?

[RME JICO]

If Ozzie refuses to play him, he has to be sent down. You have to agree he needs consistent atbats.

I don't know what value he has on this roster. Ozzie is not using him in CF, and with Ozuna and Mackowiak (and Pods), there are very few opportunities for Anderson. I would rather use Terrero in that role and give Anderson regular AB's and playing time in CF in AAA. This would also save his service time, because they are not being very efficient with it right now. If they are thinking about trading him, they are doing absolutely nothing for his value either.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(RME JICO @ Apr 22, 2007 -> 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

.273 is 6 for 22. The .176 was for his 3 for 17 before his 3 for 5 today in that position.

 

With the way everyone else is batting this season, it is hard to evaluate Erstad based on numbers alone.

Ok, I gotcha. Yahoo didn't have it updated in the player profile but had it updated in the box score. Even so, his OBP in the leadoff spot is .292. That is garbage

 

What numbers are wrong in using to evaluate Erstad? I see it with my own eyes. All he does is ground out, infield single, strike out, and pop out.

[Chisoxfn]

Have you been hearing something or is this general conjecture from last year or what?

I know the Sox like Terrero (both Ozzie and Kenny) but Its just my opinion that its going to be Terrero or Logan (long term and thats something they'll discuss when Pods gets back). But I expect Ozzie to try and get BA some playing time this week before the Sox make a final decision on whether Terrero comes up (and at that point I wouldn't expect to see BA until Erstad goes down or BA makes a couple adjustments and gets himself more ready to succeed at the major league level).

 

If Terrero comes up than he'll be trying to show he'll be more useful than Ozzie (who really likes the idea of having an extra pitcher on his staff cause he feels it will keep everyone more fresh and when you have the depth in the OF the Sox have you can't blame him; however I think its a bad idea because he's going to have to start giving Erstad some extra days off if he wants to keep him healthy and I don't really want to get used to seeing Mack out in CF).

[Heads22]

I know the Sox like Terrero (both Ozzie and Kenny) but Its just my opinion that its going to be Terrero or Logan (long term and thats something they'll discuss when Pods gets back). But I expect Ozzie to try and get BA some playing time this week before the Sox make a final decision on whether Terrero comes up (and at that point I wouldn't expect to see BA until Erstad goes down or BA makes a couple adjustments and gets himself more ready to succeed at the major league level).

 

If Terrero comes up than he'll be trying to show he'll be more useful than Ozzie (who really likes the idea of having an extra pitcher on his staff cause he feels it will keep everyone more fresh and when you have the depth in the OF the Sox have you can't blame him; however I think its a bad idea because he's going to have to start giving Erstad some extra days off if he wants to keep him healthy and I don't really want to get used to seeing Mack out in CF).

 

 

I meant in regards to Brian's work ethic and attitude this year.

[RME JICO]

Ok, I gotcha. Yahoo didn't have it updated in the player profile but had it updated in the box score. Even so, his OBP in the leadoff spot is .292. That is garbage

 

What numbers are wrong in using to evaluate Erstad? I see it with my own eyes. All he does is ground out, infield single, strike out, and pop out.

What I mean is majority of the team is sucking right now. If you were to use numbers alone, then Konerko, Dye, AJ, and Crede would be riding the pine too. He did just hit .333 in this series, so we will see. I am just giving him, like the rest of the guys a few more weeks before using the numbers as a larger discriminant.

 

Also, his OBP would be .304 after today (7-23) not .292, still not acceptable for a leadoff hitter, but better than most of the team right now.

[Chisoxfn]

I meant in regards to Brian's work ethic and attitude this year.

I know that last I heard he's still had issues but I don't know if that cleared up or not (I thought one of those issues was documented in an article in the paper a week or two ago) but Ozzie is playing hardball with him hoping that him not just handing things over will have an effect and get Brian's head on straight. But I also think that you got to take those comments for what they are worth as really the only people that are truly completely privy on the situation are those that are consistency in the clubhouse.

[Heads22]

I know that last I heard he's still had issues but I don't know if that cleared up or not (I thought one of those issues was documented in an article in the paper a week or two ago) but Ozzie is playing hardball with him hoping that him not just handing things over will have an effect and get Brian's head on straight. But I also think that you got to take those comments for what they are worth as really the only people that are truly completely privy on the situation are those that are consistency in the clubhouse.

 

You're as connected as anyone here, so I wondered if you'd heard anything. There was that thing about the guys watching TV, which sounds like it might be BA, but you never know. If the issues are on his end, I have an issue with him, but we don't know.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(RME JICO @ Apr 22, 2007 -> 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What I mean is majority of the team is sucking right now. If you were to use numbers alone, then Konerko, Dye, AJ, and Crede would be riding the pine too. He did just hit .333 in this series, so we will see. I am just giving him, like the rest of the guys a few more weeks before using the numbers as a larger discriminant.

 

Also, his OBP would be .304 after today (7-23) not .292, still not acceptable for a leadoff hitter, but better than most of the team right now.

Apparently Sac flies count as a PA, but sac bunts don't. Go figure. That where the extra PA comes from.

 

Here's the difference between Erstad, Dye, AJ, and Crede

OPS:

Dye: .726

Konerko: .592

AJ: .571

Crede: .568

Erstad: .507

 

Erstad is also getting more plate appearances than those guys, so that's another problem.

 

Those other 4 players have different contract situations as well. Dye is coming off a monster year and is a contract year. He'll hit.

Konerko is in the middle of a big deal, and we don't really have any other first base options.

AJ's backup is hurt and Molina is nothing. As a result AJ is having to face lefties and is probably starting to burn out.

Crede has no replacement ready at this time.

Erstad signed a 1 year worth at least $1 million. He also has an option that kicks in for $6 MILLION next year if he gets 600 PA's. Despite his performance, the manager is insistant on putting him near or at the very top of the order. The White Sox also have two other CF options in Anderson and Terrero.

 

Erstad is clearly the worst offensive player on this team and is stunting the growth of a rookie whose manager is against him. It is very understandable why people are all over Darin and not the 4 players you mentioned.

[SoxFanForever]

Apparently Sac flies count as a PA, but sac bunts don't. Go figure. That where the extra PA comes from.

 

Here's the difference between Erstad, Dye, AJ, and Crede

OPS:

Dye: .726

Konerko: .592

AJ: .571

Crede: .568

Erstad: .507

 

Erstad is also getting more plate appearances than those guys, so that's another problem.

 

Those other 4 players have different contract situations as well. Dye is coming off a monster year and is a contract year. He'll hit.

Konerko is in the middle of a big deal, and we don't really have any other first base options.

AJ's backup is hurt and Molina is nothing. As a result AJ is having to face lefties and is probably starting to burn out.

Crede has no replacement ready at this time.

Erstad signed a 1 year worth at least $1 million. He also has an option that kicks in for $6 MILLION next year if he gets 600 PA's. Despite his performance, the manager is insistant on putting him near or at the very top of the order. The White Sox also have two other CF options in Anderson and Terrero.

 

Erstad is clearly the worst offensive player on this team and is stunting the growth of a rookie whose manager is against him. It is very understandable why people are all over Darin and not the 4 players you mentioned.

If this team lets him reach his clause for $6 Million I will vomit.

[RME JICO]

Apparently Sac flies count as a PA, but sac bunts don't. Go figure. That where the extra PA comes from.

 

Here's the difference between Erstad, Dye, AJ, and Crede

OPS:

Dye: .726

Konerko: .592

AJ: .571

Crede: .568

Erstad: .507

 

Erstad is also getting more plate appearances than those guys, so that's another problem.

 

Those other 4 players have different contract situations as well. Dye is coming off a monster year and is a contract year. He'll hit.

Konerko is in the middle of a big deal, and we don't really have any other first base options.

AJ's backup is hurt and Molina is nothing. As a result AJ is having to face lefties and is probably starting to burn out.

Crede has no replacement ready at this time.

Erstad signed a 1 year worth at least $1 million. He also has an option that kicks in for $6 MILLION next year if he gets 600 PA's. Despite his performance, the manager is insistant on putting him near or at the very top of the order. The White Sox also have two other CF options in Anderson and Terrero.

 

Erstad is clearly the worst offensive player on this team and is stunting the growth of a rookie whose manager is against him. It is very understandable why people are all over Darin and not the 4 players you mentioned.

It does look bad, and like they say, you can put lipstick on a pig, and it is still a pig. Konerko, AJ, Crede, and Erstad are all playing well below even an league average player. If all of them would post even a .700 OPS, the Sox probably win 3 more games.

 

Dye's struggles are mind boggling, especially since he is in a contract year. Is it possible that PK or Crede are playing thru injuries (hip and back)? I would say Fields is a replacement for Crede. AJ wanted those extra ABs. I see your point completely, but it would be hard to imagine the Sox giving Erstad 600 PA's if he continues to bat like this into May.

 

I could easily see something like Pods in LF and Terrero in CF with Erstad as the 4th Outfielder if he doesn't improve in the next few weeks. BA would be sent down and replaced by Terrero.

[beautox]

What I would like to know is what BA is actually responsible for today? Anything?

 

Apparently, every mistake (even defensively) is excused because of inconsistent playing time and Ozzie's "vendetta" against BA, which was exemplified (to BA supporters) by his comments about Erstad being a better defender (for now).

 

I wonder what would happen if Erstad broke his ankle tomorrow, BA hit .220 for 2 months, and his supporters would still be saying "Ozzie didn't want him to succeed, he would be better off in that Texas clubhouse."

Well, Gathright and Baldelli are it...unless you prefer Willits?

 

Don't be hatting on Reggie, he led milb in OBP last year and put this line up .327/.448/.426. He has never repeated a level, has speed and has a very good glove and arm, bats from both sides of the plate, which is alot more than i can say for 2/3rds of our OF. so far this season in 20AB hes putting up this line .300/.391/.300

 

for a little comparison Kevin Youkilis @ age 25 @ AAA .266/.350/.403

 

so yea i would prefer Willits, because when thome actually gets pitched too and PK comes out of this slump i want people to be on base when they hit those homeruns.

 

Looks like 15% of the balls he has made contact with have been line drives. That sucks.

 

PWNT

[Texsox]

Any improvement from Erstad to Anderson would be incremental at this point and barely worth talking about. It isn't like we're going from a AAAA player to an All-Star. It's about as important as mouse sweat.

 

Erstad's best years are in the rear view mirror, Anderson's are in front of him. So the question becomes here and now. Over the course of the season, there will be less mental errors with Erstad. He will set a better example of what it takes to play on the mlb level. Anderson must learn how to prepare and be ready when he gets those chances and I believe sometime this summer he'll receive a serious stint in the starting lineup.

 

But until that point Erstad = Anderson in the lineup, each offering something different but the net contribution is about the same.

[caulfield12]

Not only staying in the lineup, but in the leadoff spot.

 

 

I'm sure you didn't include Sunday's stats in those lines, did you?

[CWSGuy406]

I'm sure you didn't include Sunday's stats in those lines, did you?

 

What do Sunday's stats have to do with anything? Placing Erstad, a guy who's OBP over his last 700 ABs is bordering .320, at the top of ANY lineup isn't a good idea, period. Five softly hit, perfectly placed singles aren't going to change anyone's mind about that.

[caulfield12]

What do Sunday's stats have to do with anything? Placing Erstad, a guy who's OBP over his last 700 ABs is bordering .320, at the top of ANY lineup isn't a good idea, period. Five softly hit, perfectly placed singles aren't going to change anyone's mind about that.

 

The point is, people are selectively leaving out yesterday's stats to make their case.

 

Erstad won't have another 2000 season, but he's not as bad as he has shown recently, because he wasn't healthy. We all know from watching Thomas from 2001-2005 that a player in his 30's (and Erstad's now only 32, not 37 or 38 like Thomas in 2006) can have a very good season if he feels 100%.

 

You have to remember that Erstad missed almost the entire season, of course he's going to be rusty. Look how long it took Thomas to get started last year, he looked like a candidate for release in April and May before he finally got his "muscle memory" back and started clicking on all cylinders.

 

If Erstad is still struggling around .200 in late May or early June, then we can talk. Heck, wasn't Dye in this same position in April/May 2005? I vividly recall one year a veteran Tim Raines came out of the gate more slowly than Erstad.

 

All I know is that when your biggest possible contribution is defensively and you're inserted into just such a situation and through a mental error (Detroit announcers called BA "nonchalant"), you put the winning run on 2nd without having to give up an out via a sacrifice, there's no longer any reason for you to be on the team. He hasn't shown the ability to hit for power minus 2 AB's against Felix Hernandez and he can't get a stolen base when needed, so what purpose does he serve?

Edited April 23, 2007 by caulfield12

[chisox72]

All I know is that when your biggest possible contribution is defensively and you're inserted into just such a situation and through a mental error (Detroit announcers called BA "nonchalant"), you put the winning run on 2nd without having to give up an out via a sacrifice, there's no longer any reason for you to be on the team. He hasn't shown the ability to hit for power minus 2 AB's against Felix Hernandez and he can't get a stolen base when needed, so what purpose does he serve?

 

I couldn't agree with you more. I used to be a huge BA supporter, but that has slowly eroded. The way he got to that ball yesterday pissed me off, big time. Not to mention he looks absolutely clueless when he does bat, so what is the point? Send him down, let him learn how to give a s*** again.

 

Right now comparing him and Erstad is apples to apples, both have contributions/flaws. But the bottom line is, based on everything published about this situation this year, BA has been whiney and arrogant about the situation. Knowing how petty Ozzie can be about things, that was the worst thing he could have done to try and make a case for himself. Not to mention his play yesterday, that probably screwed him worse than anything.

 

Bottom line, however, is that this argument is moot. We have MUCH bigger problems than the BA/Grindey debate. The fact that other than Thome, our big guys aren't doing s*** is the issue. PK (as much as I love the guy) is leaving runners on base like its his job, JD is too sporratic right now, and Crede got his first XBH in over 40 at bats....

 

I will worry about Erstad later, if he doesn't continue improving. Because right now he is NOT costing us games. Leaving runners on in large quantities, however, *IS* costing us some games. Walk and the rest of these guys need to reevaluate their lack of being able to adjust and get it together.

[GreenSox]

Erstad isn't going to hit .170 all year; but I doubt he does much better than .260 with an OBP of .300 and a miniscule slg percentage (a whopping ONE extra base hit all year). Further, he's been batting at the TOP of the order, protected most of the year by THOME, and he still hits horribly. He clearly belongs at the bottom of the lineup (if anywhere). His upside is so scant, that it doesn't justify not playing a younger player, be it Anderson, or someone else, or trade some of our AAA pitching for someone else's good CF prospect. But ERstad is pitiful offensively.

[elrockinMT]

Waiting doesnt play well around here. But you've been around long enough to know that. There are always the know-it-all, stat head , fantasy baseball geeks who think they know every facet of a game most of them have never played and wouldnt know a good team player, bad defense, or the difference between good n bad baserunning, or leadership if it jumped up and bit them on the ass.

 

 

I have said before that we don't value our own players enough. Less than one month into the season and we are ready to scrap the whole bunch. You have to have players who not only can run-hit-throw-field, but also lead. They can motivate other players to perform at a higher level.

 

I would get angry with Santo=Dorf, but I like his girlfriends picture too much

Edited April 24, 2007 by elrockinMT

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Apr 24, 2007 -> 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have said before that we don't value our own players enough. Less than one month into the season and we are ready to scrap the whole bunch. You have to have players who not only can run-hit-throw-field, but also lead. They can motivate other players to perform at a higher level.

 

I would get angry with Santo=Dorf, but I like his girlfriends picture too much

Shhh, don't tell Aardsma. I like her because she is a fellow graduate of U of I.

 

I mean really, that's the only reason.

[CWSGuy406]

The point is, people are selectively leaving out yesterday's stats to make their case.

 

Erstad won't have another 2000 season, but he's not as bad as he has shown recently, because he wasn't healthy. We all know from watching Thomas from 2001-2005 that a player in his 30's (and Erstad's now only 32, not 37 or 38 like Thomas in 2006) can have a very good season if he feels 100%.

 

Sorry, I stopped reading after you put Frank Thomas and Darin Erstad's name in the same sentence. Too funny.

 

Go make some more threads.

Edited April 24, 2007 by CWSGuy406

[WCSox]

But the bottom line is, based on everything published about this situation this year, BA has been whiney and arrogant about the situation. Knowing how petty Ozzie can be about things, that was the worst thing he could have done to try and make a case for himself.

 

I hadn't read that, but it doesn't surprise me. One of my sister's friends knew him at Arizona and from what I hear, he isn't the most mature person in the world.

 

Somebody said this earlier and I'll repeat it: If Ozzie is absolutely hell-bent on NOT playing BA in CF ever, I'd like to see him sent down after Pods is activated. BA would be much better off getting some at-bats in the minors rather than rotting on the bench and playing freaking LF as a "defensive replacement" for a perfectly-good corner outfielder. Mack playing sparingly in CF (when Erstad needs a rest) wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

[caulfield12]

Sorry, I stopped reading after you put Frank Thomas and Darin Erstad's name in the same sentence. Too funny.

 

Go make some more threads.

 

 

How many teams in baseball wanted Frank Thomas after the 2005 season? ONE. And Billy Beane was very reluctant and did lots of due diligence first.

 

How many teams wanted Darin Erstad? At least two.

 

Are you dense? I wasn't comparing them as players, I was making a point that everyone deserves the opportunity to come back from an injury....and that Erstad was a lot younger than Thomas.

[SoxFanForever]

How many teams in baseball wanted Frank Thomas after the 2005 season? ONE. And Billy Beane was very reluctant and did lots of due diligence first.

 

How many teams wanted Darin Erstad? At least two.

 

Are you dense? I wasn't comparing them as players, I was making a point that everyone deserves the opportunity to come back from an injury....and that Erstad was a lot younger than Thomas.

And nowhere near the talent level, what's your point?