And thats a White Sox loser...

[RockRaines]

The main thing I see is that Ozzie sets up young guys to fail, not succeed.

 

Why else would he throw a young situational lefty out there against RH batters in an extra inning tie game?

 

Because they (Oz/KW) wanted an excuse to send Logan down to AAA.

Knight, come on. He has nothing but young guys in the pen and his handling of them has been masterful to say the least.

[Harry Chappas]

The main thing I see is that Ozzie sets up young guys to fail, not succeed.

 

Why else would he throw a young situational lefty out there against RH batters in an extra inning tie game?

 

Because they (Oz/KW) wanted an excuse to send Logan down to AAA.

 

Masset looked gassed and it was he v. Granderson or Logan v. a PH. When Logan walked the first batter he killed their chances as he would've walked Polanco to get to Infante/Ph.

 

The pen needed a day.

[WCSox]

The main thing I see is that Ozzie sets up young guys to fail, not succeed.

 

Why else would he throw a young situational lefty out there against RH batters in an extra inning tie game?

 

Because they (Oz/KW) wanted an excuse to send Logan down to AAA.

 

Agreed that Ozzie isn't into developing younger players, but the 'pen had been used heavily over the past few days and they'd already won the series going into Sunday. Managers need to pick their spots and to give their best relievers a day off every now and then.

[southsider2k5]

The main thing I see is that Ozzie sets up young guys to fail, not succeed.

 

Why else would he throw a young situational lefty out there against RH batters in an extra inning tie game?

 

Because they (Oz/KW) wanted an excuse to send Logan down to AAA.

 

You say setting up to fail, I say testing them to see what they can do in the fire.

 

Ozzie has always taken chances like this to see what situations that players can succeed in, so that he knows when he can use them in September and October. He has done this since the first day he started managing. Guillen knew that he didn't want to use Jenks for the 4th day in a row, plus as well as Aardsma was pitching he wanted to not only reward him for the job he had done, but to also see if he could come through as a closer. Logan he has said all along needed to be more than a one out guy if he wanted to help the Sox this season, so he put him out there to see if he could be that guy or not when the game really mattered. If he doesn't test the young guys, how will he know if they are any good or not?

[Dick Allen]

As much as I criticize Ozzie, I see nothing wrong with how he used the bullpen yesterday. It didn't work out. You can't blow guys out just to win 1 game. The season is too long. Aardsma was the correct move yesterday. I don't know what was up with Thornton, but if he's not available, then Logan was the correct move also. If you aren't going to put guys on the mound, there's no reason they should be on the team. A sweep would have been great, but 2 out of 3 in Detroit is acceptable.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

The main thing I see is that Ozzie sets up young guys to fail, not succeed.

 

Why else would he throw a young situational lefty out there against RH batters in an extra inning tie game?

 

Because they (Oz/KW) wanted an excuse to send Logan down to AAA.

 

Exactly! I mean, why else put brian anderson in LF knowing full well his awesomeness can only be seen in CF?? Ozzie knew full well he'd lazily get to that ball and make a bad throw, thus continuing his master plan of ruining anderson.

[RockRaines]

Agreed that Ozzie isn't into developing younger players, but the 'pen had been used heavily over the past few days and they'd already won the series going into Sunday. Managers need to pick their spots and to give their best relievers a day off every now and then.

Ozzie is pretty excellent at developing young pitchers though, especially bullpen guys.

[soxfan3530]

As much as I criticize Ozzie, I see nothing wrong with how he used the bullpen yesterday. It didn't work out. You can't blow guys out just to win 1 game. The season is too long. Aardsma was the correct move yesterday. I don't know what was up with Thornton, but if he's not available, then Logan was the correct move also. If you aren't going to put guys on the mound, there's no reason they should be on the team. A sweep would have been great, but 2 out of 3 in Detroit is acceptable.

 

Gotta love it. People are mad when Logan doesn't make the team and then they are mad when he gets called up and they put him in!

[harfman77]

A few things that I got from the game. Massett pitched well to begin with but seemed to lose his control quickly. Bringing in Logan was the right call because you get a cold bat off the bench and hopefully you get him to hit into the double play. Unfortunately Logan didnt appear to have much control either, and that may have been nerves as that is the biggest spot that I think he has been in. I think that Ozzie should tweak the batting order for a little while, move Konerko up to third so he sees better pitches, and drop Thome to fourth so that he has Dye protecting him. I think BA is doing everything he can to get sent to Charlotte.

 

I thought the bullpen performed well, outside of a couple pitches, I would have rather had Mac in there, but he has been worked pretty hard.

[WCSox]

Ozzie is pretty excellent at developing young pitchers though, especially bullpen guys.

 

Outside of McCarthy, I agree.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Outside of McCarthy, I agree.

 

After the Javy aquisition, what would have been the best way?

[WCSox]

After the Javy aquisition, what would have been the best way?

 

I agreed with Ozzie's decision to put him in long-relief last year. My point was that B-Mac regressed big-time last year. That said, that might've had more to do with him than Ozzie.

 

Coop should get most of the credit/blame for pitcher development, but it's Ozzie's job to put those guys out there and motivate/instill confidence in them. He did a great job of handling the then-rookie Jenks in '05.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

I agreed with Ozzie's decision to put him in long-relief last year. My point was that B-Mac regressed big-time last year. That said, that might've had more to do with him than Ozzie.

 

Coop should get most of the credit/blame for pitcher development, but it's Ozzie's job to put those guys out there and motivate/instill confidence in them. He did a great job of handling the then-rookie Jenks in '05.

 

 

 

true, i wish boone would go away.

[CWSGuy406]

After the Javy aquisition, what would have been the best way?

 

Rest guys when they clearly weren't pitching well (and, after the season, admitted they were hurt)? Like Buehrle in the second half or Garcia in the first half? You know, do what they said they'd do when Vazquez was first acquired...?

[harfman77]

true, i wish boone would go away.

 

I think Boone will be fine and the experience he is getting now can pay off in August and September. What will tell the most about him is how he comes out and throws next time. It sucks to lose now, but if he would have came through in that spot that would have been a huge confidence builder, unfortunately it didnt pan out but hopefully they can build off it and make each of the young relievers a better as the year goes on.

 

Rest guys when they clearly weren't pitching well (and, after the season, admitted they were hurt)? Like Buehrle in the second half or Garcia in the first half? You know, do what they said they'd do when Vazquez was first acquired...?

 

I would like to have seen a six man rotation last year in June and July, I know that is frowned upon, but the way our pitchers were throwing I think they could have used the extra rest.

Edited April 23, 2007 by IowaSoxFan

[caulfield12]

A few things that I got from the game. Massett pitched well to begin with but seemed to lose his control quickly. Bringing in Logan was the right call because you get a cold bat off the bench and hopefully you get him to hit into the double play. Unfortunately Logan didnt appear to have much control either, and that may have been nerves as that is the biggest spot that I think he has been in. I think that Ozzie should tweak the batting order for a little while, move Konerko up to third so he sees better pitches, and drop Thome to fourth so that he has Dye protecting him. I think BA is doing everything he can to get sent to Charlotte.

 

I thought the bullpen performed well, outside of a couple pitches, I would have rather had Mac in there, but he has been worked pretty hard.

 

I guess the situation against CLE was the last comparable one for Logan, when he gave up the homer to Hafner in April of 06?

 

 

I think Boone will be fine and the experience he is getting now can pay off in August and September. What will tell the most about him is how he comes out and throws next time. It sucks to lose now, but if he would have came through in that spot that would have been a huge confidence builder, unfortunately it didnt pan out but hopefully they can build off it and make each of the young relievers a better as the year goes on.

I would like to have seen a six man rotation last year in June and July, I know that is frowned upon, but the way our pitchers were throwing I think they could have used the extra rest.

 

It seems like Garland, Contreras and even Buehrle might have the tendency to overthrow a little with an extra day of rest. Garland's more effective at 88-90 than 90-92 if he can keep his sinker down. Contreras seems to get a better forkball the more he works....I think it's great in theory, but it is almost never done for a significant amount of time at the big league level anymore.

 

And it's pretty hard to take an athlete with pride like Buehrle or Garcia off the mound unless you can prove to them conclusively that something is wrong with them physically.

[witesoxfan]

Rest guys when they clearly weren't pitching well (and, after the season, admitted they were hurt)? Like Buehrle in the second half or Garcia in the first half? You know, do what they said they'd do when Vazquez was first acquired...?

 

Like by accessing the DL, which they did only once last year with the starters (and even then, they called up Haeger initially). They could have very easily put Garcia and Buehrle on the DL last year at some point, let them catch their breath and let their arms recuperate a bit, and gotten McCarthy some time in the rotation.

[HeGone33]

Outside of McCarthy, I agree.

 

I don't blame that on Ozzie, probably more of a case that McCarthy just isn't that good.

[WCSox]

Like by accessing the DL, which they did only once last year with the starters (and even then, they called up Haeger initially). They could have very easily put Garcia and Buehrle on the DL last year at some point, let them catch their breath and let their arms recuperate a bit, and gotten McCarthy some time in the rotation.

 

With the way that McCarthy was pitching in long-relief, less-than-100% Mark and Freddy were arguably better options at the time.

[Wedge]

I was at the game, with a bet with my girlfriend on who would buy the hotel last night. I had Ozuna having a better game than her boy (of course) Konerko... In the end, we split the room.. cuz they were both pretty pitiful.

 

Fun games to be at this weekend, but I was disappointed to not pull out the win on Sunday. Any time you have a team up 2 runs with two outs in the bottom of the 9th, you expect a win, but in the end, we took the series.. and as long as we take 1 of 2 later this week, we still take the five game series.. which is a plus in my book. We pitched our Sunday pitching staff.. wasnt that our excuse with our batting orders last year?

 

Is she hot?

[witesoxfan]

With the way that McCarthy was pitching in long-relief, less-than-100% Mark and Freddy were arguably better options at the time.

 

14 GS 81 IP 6.44 ERA 1.64 WHIP

 

those were Buehrle's second half numbers. Josh Stewart or Felix Diaz would have pitched better.

[RockRaines]

14 GS 81 IP 6.44 ERA 1.64 WHIP

 

those were Buehrle's second half numbers. Josh Stewart or Felix Diaz would have pitched better.

Meh,

 

Diaz as a starter:

 

2-4 8.27 ERA

 

He would have been worse.

Edited April 23, 2007 by RockRaines

[WCSox]

14 GS 81 IP 6.44 ERA 1.64 WHIP

 

those were Buehrle's second half numbers. Josh Stewart or Felix Diaz would have pitched better.

 

Replacing Mark after a bad first half would've been a lot easier than going into a time machine in early September and removing Mark from the rotation in late July.

[Harry Chappas]

When McCarthy showed he wasn't going to be an effective reliever they should have sent him down to get more work in. The cubs have doen this with Angel Guzman as they intend on streching him out and having him replace Miller very soon.

 

Why not do this with Anderson for a week or two to get him at-bats rather than have him rot away until Erstad is injured and then he is forced into action cold and uninterested.

[witesoxfan]

Meh,

 

Diaz as a starter:

 

2-4 8.27 ERA

 

He would have been worse.

 

Probably, but exaggeration has never hurt anyone.

 

Replacing Mark after a bad first half would've been a lot easier than going into a time machine in early September and removing Mark from the rotation in late July.

 

One DL stint. That's really all that would have been necessary. Had I been close to the situation, I would have suggested it; I wasn't, so I couldn't do anything.