DEM Primaries/Candidates thread

[StrangeSox]

The true stakeholders want to build the party for more than just this election. Being held hostage by supporters who claim they will not support the party if they do not get what they want is not good as well.

 

You don't build the party by pushing away all of the independents and moderates who are coming over to your side. They'll flock over to McCain and the Republicans and won't consider a (D) nominee for a while.

Edited February 20, 2008 by StrangeSox

[HuskyCaucasian]

Many are already committed to her. 80% of my local superdelegates are already pledged to her. They have been for months.

I think what he is saying is that they undecided delegates will lean Obama and I bet many of the decided Clinton delegates will switch if he starts to pull ahead.

[BigSqwert]

I think what he is saying is that they undecided delegates will lean Obama and I bet many of the decided Clinton delegates will switch if he starts to pull ahead.

Bingo. Of the 700 or 800 still undecided I don't see a scenario where they'd all, or mostly, break for Clinton. The argument that she'd be a better matchup in November isn't even holding water anymore. Obama is winning red states, independents, and disenfranchised republicans.

Edited February 20, 2008 by BigSqwert

[kapkomet]

Bingo. Of the 700 or 800 still undecided I don't see a scenario where they'd all, or mostly, break for Clinton. The argument that she'd be a better matchup in November isn't even holding water anymore. Obama is winning red states, independents, and disenfranchised republicans.

And then, I think that there are a lot of people like me, who are going to go vote for Obama because I despise Clinton so much. He's pulling a lot of people like that. If the Republicans lose the White House in 2008, I would much rather see Obama then Hillary Clinton as our president, even if I disagree with almost everything they stand for.

 

With that said, how much resentment is there against Hillary that is stoking up Obama? If the party faithful deem that's what's happening, you bet your ass they will side with Clinton.

 

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

With that said, how much resentment is there against Hillary that is stoking up Obama? If the party faithful deem that's what's happening, you bet your ass they will side with Clinton.

wait... i dont understand your logic. You are saying because a lot of people dont like hillary, that will make MORE people vote for her? That's twisted logic.

[BigSqwert]

With that said, how much resentment is there against Hillary that is stoking up Obama? If the party faithful deem that's what's happening, you bet your ass they will side with Clinton.

I would bet my house that you are wrong. I do not see them going against the popular vote, the pledged delegate lead, the number of states won, the national polls, and the head to head numbers vs McCain.

[StrangeSox]

With that said, how much resentment is there against Hillary that is stoking up Obama? If the party faithful deem that's what's happening, you bet your ass they will side with Clinton.

 

Why? So they can lose the election and allow the Republican party to re-bond? If the Republicans lose, I'd bet that the party falls into a bit of disarray and doesn't recover in time for 2010. If the D's put up Hillary and McCain takes the White House, then they'll be able to rally together more strongly.

Edited February 20, 2008 by StrangeSox

[Texsox]

When a candidate's supporters say I will support this candidate and no other, it does not sound like they are Democrats at all. These are flash in the pan voters who will go jump to some third party candidate or similar. They will get the level of respect they give the party. My way or the highway supporters come and go in every election.

[Texsox]

wait... i dont understand your logic. You are saying because a lot of people dont like hillary, that will make MORE people vote for her? That's twisted logic.

 

Not much of a race on the GOP side, so as a REP, why not cross over and vote against the candidate that your leaders have announted the DEM's most evil threat? Reps for Obama, not that far fetched.

 

This process is for the party to select their candidate. The mainline supporters are typically supporters going back at least as far as Clinton 1, and in some cases even farther. Because some people just now decided they like a candidate, these supporters will take a back seat and say you run it? Too much in it for people. Too many received benefits from Clinton one and wish to return to those days.

 

I'm not all the way with Kap, but he's closer to right then the she doesn't have a chance people.

[Texsox]

With our favorite baseball team we can see no good, with our political candidates we can see no bad. Interesting.

[kapkomet]

Not much of a race on the GOP side, so as a REP, why not cross over and vote against the candidate that your leaders have announted the DEM's most evil threat? Reps for Obama, not that far fetched.

 

This process is for the party to select their candidate. The mainline supporters are typically supporters going back at least as far as Clinton 1, and in some cases even farther. Because some people just now decided they like a candidate, these supporters will take a back seat and say you run it? Too much in it for people. Too many received benefits from Clinton one and wish to return to those days.

 

I'm not all the way with Kap, but he's closer to right then the she doesn't have a chance people.

Bigsqwert, I agree with you in the sense that it's pretty bleak for Hillary. But, in all honesty, do you expect her to just sit there and watch this happen? When the Clinton's speak about the "vast right wing conspiracy" and the "republican attack machine", these people have the biggest glass house ever built. They have probably the fiercest, hardest, call it whatever you want, tenacity (read: attack machine) to ensure that they maintain power. I mean come on... Hillary went to New York, why? Just to be nice and "work hard for the people of New York?" HELL NO, she did it with the angle of becoming president in 2008. PERIOD. Has she represented the people of New York well? More often then not, most people say yes.

 

That's well and good, but my bigger point is, Hillary Clinton has ridden the coattails of Bill Clinton all the way until now, and she's not going to become irrelevant without a fight. It will become an unscrupulous fight before it's over, because she's going to take down the whole house of cards. My analogy is, if I can't have it, none of you can... and that is most likely what's going to happen to the Democrat party.

 

Anyone who discounts Hillary Clinton for any reason is at best naive, and at worst stupid.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Clinton cant seem to beat Obama, so now she is going after an ill-informed Texas STATE Rep...

[Harry Chappas]

When a candidate's supporters say I will support this candidate and no other, it does not sound like they are Democrats at all. These are flash in the pan voters who will go jump to some third party candidate or similar. They will get the level of respect they give the party. My way or the highway supporters come and go in every election.

 

Obama is reaching the people that do not vote and are not affiliated with a party and believe politics to be a waste of time as everyone is corrupt or full of s***. These people, of which I am one of, if they stay engaged after their respective primary and stay informed and are lead to believe that Hillary plowed her way and backroomed into a nomination could flock to McCain, I know I will. The hilalry backers and true Dems will back Obama because he is Dem. In Novemebr this could beat McCain.

 

I tilt toward the right normally but I think Obama could be a different sort of presence in the White House. I voted for Bush in 2000 because I liked the people that he surrounded himself with, mostly Powell. I sat out 2004.

 

Oh and as far as policies go, I believe none of them actually accomplish much of anything unless Congress backs them. I have more faith in the system of Checks and Balances than I do in a trustworthy politican.

[KipWellsFan]

I thought this was an interesting piece.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/19/c...o-_n_87433.html

[HuskyCaucasian]

I thought this was an interesting piece.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/19/c...o-_n_87433.html

I am SHOCKED it took the media THIS long to figure this out. Talk about lax reporting. I called this out 19 days ago (on digg of all places) and people seemed to ignore it. All the news agencies were reporting this operative killed in Pakistan and how great a victory it was. i thought.. "you dumbasses. you are missing the key part of this story. We just bombed in PAKISTAN. A country we said is an strong ally and we cant invade". Add in all this talk from Bush and McCain about how Obama is ignorant and was going to ruin the sovereignty if Pakistan... but the Bush administration is the one who BOMBED!

[BigSqwert]

but the Bush administration is the one who BOMBED!

But I'm sure McCain supported it even though in his victory speech last night he is still blasting the notion that Obama would want to do something like this. And Obama never said he would bomb Pakistan. If someone can find me a quote where he said that I'll paypal you $100.

[Balta1701]

But I'm sure McCain supported it even though in his victory speech last night he is still blasting the notion that Obama would want to do something like this. And Obama never said he would bomb Pakistan. If someone can find me a quote where he said that I'll paypal you $100.

You're going to weasel out of it because he said the word "Act" instead of the word "Bomb" aren't you?

Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama said on Wednesday the United States must be willing to strike al Qaeda targets inside Pakistan, adopting a tough tone after a chief rival accused him of naivete in foreign policy.

 

Obama's stance comes amid debate in Washington over what to do about a resurgent al Qaeda and Taliban in areas of northwest Pakistan that President Pervez Musharraf has been unable to control, and concerns that new recruits are being trained there for a September 11-style attack against the United States.

 

Obama said if elected in November 2008 he would be willing to attack inside Pakistan with or without approval from the Pakistani government, a move that would likely cause anxiety in the already troubled region.

 

"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will," Obama said.

[HuskyCaucasian]

But I'm sure McCain supported it even though in his victory speech last night he is still blasting the notion that Obama would want to do something like this. And Obama never said he would bomb Pakistan. If someone can find me a quote where he said that I'll paypal you $100.

Not only that, but he said he would only act if Musharraf didnt..

"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will," Obama said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNew...132206420070801

[HuskyCaucasian]

You're going to weasel out of it because he said the word "Act" instead of the word "Bomb" aren't you?

Could send in a special ops force or hire an assassin. But yes, I would tend to believe he means bomb.

[Balta1701]

Teamsters reportedly to endorse Obama today. That would leave Hillary with only 1 of the 4 biggest unions in the country behind her.

[Texsox]

Could send in a special ops force or hire an assassin. But yes, I would tend to believe he means bomb.

 

Of course that pesky law against assassination may get in the way of some leaders.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Teamsters reportedly to endorse Obama today. That would leave Hillary with only 1 of the 4 biggest unions in the country behind her.

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

Of course that pesky law against assassination may get in the way of some leaders.

what law?

[Steve9347]

Kapkomet: Hillary will win.

 

The World: Keep thinking that, but you're wrong.

 

Kapkomet: I know, I don't even believe myself, but I just have to continue being ridiculous because I've held this stance for so long. Ignore me.

 

The World: 'K.

[Texsox]

what law?

Sorry, executive order. It's been in place since President Ford.