DEM Primaries/Candidates thread

[Balta1701]

Obama denounced the man as an anti-Semite last night. What more do you want?

The fun part was that after Obama denounced him the first time, Russert decided to press on it harder, so that he could find an excuse to start bringing in some of the quotes to try to smear Obama indirectly. So Obama denounced him again. And again. And again.

[BigSqwert]

The fun part was that after Obama denounced him the first time, Russert decided to press on it harder, so that he could find an excuse to start bringing in some of the quotes to try to smear Obama indirectly. So Obama denounced him again. And again. And again.

Perhaps Hillary and Russert were expecting Obama to finally reply "If I ever see Farrakhan in my path I will kill him with my bare hands".

[bmags]

Here is the correlation kap:

 

Obama's book "the audacity of hope" is a quote from the head of his church

 

The head of his church traveled with Farrakhan in 1982.

 

The head of his church called Farrakhan a "great man"

 

In a speech, Farrakhan called the Jews a "gutter religion"

 

Therefore, Obama hates Jews, is what Russert was getting at.

[Balta1701]

Perhaps Hillary and Russert were expecting Obama to finally reply "If I ever see Farrakhan in my path I will kill him with my bare hands".

The way it sounded to me, the only thing that would have satisfied them would have been for Obama to say "No, I don't want him voting for me".

[mr_genius]

Obama's church publishes Trumpet Magazine which stated Frarrakhan " truly epitomized greatness." The guy that runs this mag is Obama's spiritual adviser I guess. It's legit to question Obama on this issue when the guy publishing this is a honored associate of Obama. Imagine of McCains spiritual adviser was David Duke.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...8011402083.html

 

US. Cellular sponsors the mag too, so I guess this kind of stuff is mainstream now

Edited February 27, 2008 by mr_genius

[Balta1701]

Obama's church publishes Trumpet Magazine which stated Frarrakhan " truly epitomized greatness." The guy that runs this mag is Obama's spiritual adviser I guess. It's legit to question the Obama on this issue when the guy publishing this is a honored associate of Obama. Imagine of McCains spiritual adviser was David Duke.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...8011402083.html

Actually, the metaphor would be if Obama's spiritual advisor/church pastor praised David Duke, not was David Duke. You need 2 degrees of separation there, not 1.

Edited February 27, 2008 by Balta1701

[mr_genius]

Actually, the metaphor would be if Obama's spiritual advisor/church pastor praised David Duke, not was David Duke. You need 2 degrees of separation there, not 1.

 

true, but both cases would be pretty bad news for McCain.

[mr_genius]

Therefore, Obama hates Jews, is what Russert was getting at.

 

Not really, he was asking him to respond to a 'growing controversy'. Then Russert pestered Obama about his answer, like Russert does to everyone he interviews. I remember Russert just destroyed Guiliani during a Meet the Press interview, this really wasn't anything our of the ordinary for Tim Russert.

[Balta1701]

Not really, he was asking him to respond to a 'growing controversy'. Then Russert pestered Obama about his answer, like Russert does to everyone he interviews. I remember Russert just destroyed Guiliani during a Meet the Press interview, this really wasn't anything our of the ordinary for Tim Russert.

I think at least to my eyes, an official debate should be held to a much higher standard of behavior than a Meet the Press interview. I'm not a fan of Russert's "Gotcha" format where he digs up the most obscure detail no one has ever heard of and asks the candidate to respond to it to prove their worthiness in the first place, but that format works even worse in what some would hope would wind up being formal debates on policy matters.

[mr_genius]

I think at least to my eyes, an official debate should be held to a much higher standard of behavior than a Meet the Press interview. I'm not a fan of Russert's "Gotcha" format where he digs up the most obscure detail no one has ever heard of and asks the candidate to respond to it to prove their worthiness in the first place, but that format works even worse in what some would hope would wind up being formal debates on policy matters.

 

I think that is a valid point. Is it the moderators place to pester candidates on their answers?

 

But this wasn't something that just happened to Obama. Some of the CNN and MSNBC GOP debates were total debacles. I remember CNN and the 'Gay General' thing during a GOP debate, that was just bizarre. And MSNBC has Olbermann doing a GOP debate? He was horrible, but what did they expect from a guy who is quoted as saying "The leading terrorist group in this country is the Republican Party."

[Balta1701]

I think that is a valid point. Is it the moderators place to pester candidates on their answers?

 

But this wasn't something that just happened to Obama. Some of the CNN and MSNBC GOP debates were total debacles. I remember CNN and the 'Gay General' thing during a GOP debate, that was just bizarre. And MSNBC has Olbermann doing a GOP debate? He was horrible, but what did they expect from a guy who is quoted as saying "The leading terrorist group in this country is the Republican Party."

Did Olbermann actually moderate a Republican debate? Not just doing commentary afterwards, but moderating?

 

And the Gay General thing we've been over. I might not have minded the setup if he submitted the question on his own and such, but the fact that he was allowing his name to be publically used as a supporter of the Hillary campaign was pretty damn bad.

 

It certainly has been an interesting debate season. The youtube debates were an interesting bunch to say the least, gave a sort of question you never got at normal debates, Hillary's downfall really did start at a debate with that whole Drivers License question, and then you have these various lowpoints on top of it.

[mr_genius]

Did Olbermann actually moderate a Republican debate? Not just doing commentary afterwards, but moderating?

 

And the Gay General thing we've been over. I might not have minded the setup if he submitted the question on his own and such, but the fact that he was allowing his name to be publically used as a supporter of the Hillary campaign was pretty damn bad.

 

It certainly has been an interesting debate season. The youtube debates were an interesting bunch to say the least, gave a sort of question you never got at normal debates, Hillary's downfall really did start at a debate with that whole Drivers License question, and then you have these various lowpoints on top of it.

 

Oh yea, Olbermann was the debate commentator, while Chris Matthews fired the questions. Matthews asked 22 follow up questions during that debate. He asked 6 follow up questions to Guiliani about his pro-choice stances. So Russert really wasn't out of step with his fellow debate moderators in being a pain the ass during a debate.

[Balta1701]

Oh yea, Olbermann was the debate commentator, while Chris Matthews fired the questions. Matthews asked 22 follow up questions during that debate. He asked 6 follow up questions to Guiliani about his pro-choice stances. So Russert really wasn't out of step with his fellow debate moderators in being a pain the ass during a debate.

So Olbermann wasn't the one asking questions? I have less of a problem with that then, I'd say. Matthews has been pretty ugly to all sides this season. Certainly interesting that MSNBC seems to be the network that everyone has a problem with (accepting the fact that the Dems have pretty much just decided to ignore Fox, deservedly.) It certainly seems reasonable that future campaigns might want to start making an issue of the work MSNBC did during this year's run.

[HuskyCaucasian]

OK, i want your thoughts on this. During the debate last night, Hillary was asked about not releasing her tax data. She wavered a little and said she MIGHT release them before being nominated, but (and I am paraphrasing here) "it'll take some time. I'm a little busy right now."

 

Ok, so here is the fault in that logic. i HIGHLY doubt she personally handles all her taxes. Now, i know someone making MILLIONS each year is a little different than some like me making

Edited February 28, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[bmags]

Not really, he was asking him to respond to a 'growing controversy'. Then Russert pestered Obama about his answer, like Russert does to everyone he interviews. I remember Russert just destroyed Guiliani during a Meet the Press interview, this really wasn't anything our of the ordinary for Tim Russert.

 

Russert: How can the Jewish community trust you when you support farrakhan

Obama : I renounce and disagree with Louis Farrakhan and did not seek his endorsement

Russert: But DO YOU SUPPORT HIM?

[Balta1701]

Russert: How can the Jewish community trust you when you support farrakhan

Obama : I renounce and disagree with Louis Farrakhan and did not seek his endorsement

Russert: But DO YOU SUPPORT HIM?

No, the last line is actually "Do you support him, and here let me read some of his worst quotes just so I can stress how scandalous it is that he supports you no matter what you say".

[mr_genius]

Russert: How can the Jewish community trust you when you support farrakhan

Obama : I renounce and disagree with Louis Farrakhan and did not seek his endorsement

Russert: But DO YOU SUPPORT HIM?

 

Obama said he denounced Farrakhan's statements. not the guy himself. Russert followed up, asking if he rejected Farrakhan's support.

 

 

Democrat Ohio Debate Transcript:

 

TIM RUSSERT: Senator Obama, one of the things in the campaign is that you have to react to unexpected developments. On Sunday, the headline in your hometown paper, Chicago Tribune, “Louis Farrakhan Backs Obama for President at Nation of Islam Convention in Chicago.” Do you accept the support of Louis Farrakhan?

 

OBAMA: You know, I have been very clear in my denunciation of Minister Farrakhan’s anti-Semitic comments. I think they are unacceptable and reprehensible.

 

I did not solicit this support. He expressed pride in an African-American who seems to be bringing the country together.

 

I obviously can’t censor him, but it is not support that I sought. And we’re not doing anything, I assure you, formally or informally with Minister Farrakhan.

 

RUSSERT: Do you reject his support?

 

OBAMA: Well, Tim, I can’t say to somebody that he can’t say that he thinks I’m a good guy.

 

You know, I have been very clear in my denunciations of him and his past statements. And I think that indicates to the American people what my stance is on those comments.

 

RUSSERT: The problem some voters may have is, as you know, the Reverend Farrakhan called Judaism “gutter religion.”

 

OBAMA: Tim, I think — I am very familiar with his record, as are the American people. That’s why I have consistently denounced it.

 

This is not something new. This is something that — I live in Chicago. He lives in Chicago. I’ve been very clear, in terms of me believing that what he has said is reprehensible and inappropriate. And I have consistently distanced myself from him.

 

RUSSERT: The title of one of your books, “Audacity of Hope,” you acknowledge you got from a sermon from Reverend Jeremiah Wright, the head of the Trinity United Church. He said that Louis Farrakhan “epitomizes greatness.”

 

He said that he went to Libya in 1984 with Louis Farrakhan to visit with Moammar Gadhafi and that, when your political opponents found out about that, quote, “your Jewish support would dry up quicker than a snowball in Hell.”

 

RUSSERT: What do you do to assure Jewish-Americans that, whether it’s Farrakhan support or the activities of Reverend Jeremiah Wright, your pastor, you are consistent with issues regarding Israel and not in any way suggesting that Farrakhan epitomizes greatness?

 

OBAMA: Tim, I have some of the strongest support from the Jewish community in my hometown of Chicago and in this presidential campaign. And the reason is because I have been a stalwart friend of Israel’s. I think they are one of our most important allies in the region, and I think that their security is sacrosanct, and that the United States is in a special relationship with them, as is true with my relationship with the Jewish community.

 

And the reason that I have such strong support is because they know that not only would I not tolerate anti-Semitism in any form, but also because of the fact that what I want to do is rebuild what I consider to be a historic relationship between the African-American community and the Jewish community.

 

You know, I would not be sitting here were it not for a whole host of Jewish Americans, who supported the civil rights movement and helped to ensure that justice was served in the South. And that coalition has frayed over time around a whole host of issues, and part of my task in this process is making sure that those lines of communication and understanding are reopened.

 

But, you know, the reason that I have such strong support in the Jewish community and have historically — it was true in my U.S. Senate campaign and it’s true in this presidency — is because the people who know me best know that I consistently have not only befriended the Jewish community, not only have I been strong on Israel, but, more importantly, I’ve been willing to speak out even when it is not comfortable.

 

When I was — just last point I would make — when I was giving — had the honor of giving a sermon at Ebenezer Baptist Church in conjunction with Martin Luther King’s birthday in front of a large African-American audience, I specifically spoke out against anti- Semitism within the African-American community. And that’s what gives people confidence that I will continue to do that when I’m president of the United States.

 

BRIAN WILLIAMS: Senator…

 

CLINTON: I just want to add something here, because I faced a similar situation when I ran for the Senate in 2000 in New York. And in New York, there are more than the two parties, Democratic and Republican. And one of the parties at that time, the Independence Patty, was under the control of people who were anti-Semitic, anti- Israel. And I made it very clear that I did not want their support. I rejected it. I said that it would not be anything I would be comfortable with. And it looked as though I might pay a price for that. But I would not be associated with people who said such inflammatory and untrue charges against either Israel or Jewish people in our country.

 

And, you know, I was willing to take that stand, and, you know, fortunately the people of New York supported me and I won. But at the time, I thought it was more important to stand on principle and to reject the kind of conditions that went with support like that.

 

RUSSERT: Are you suggesting Senator Obama is not standing on principle?

 

CLINTON: No. I’m just saying that you asked specifically if he would reject it. And there’s a difference between denouncing and rejecting. And I think when it comes to this sort of, you know, inflammatory — I have no doubt that everything that Barack just said is absolutely sincere. But I just think, we’ve got to be even stronger. We cannot let anyone in any way say these things because of the implications that they have, which can be so far reaching.

 

OBAMA: Tim, I have to say I don’t see a difference between denouncing and rejecting. There’s no formal offer of help from Minister Farrakhan that would involve me rejecting it. But if the word “reject” Senator Clinton feels is stronger than the word “denounce,” then I’m happy to concede the point, and I would reject and denounce.

 

CLINTON: Good. Good. Excellent.

 

[Balta1701]

Obama said he denounced Farrakhan's statements. not the guy himself. Russert followed up, asking if he rejected Farrakhan's support.

How exactly do you tell a person not to vote for you?

[mr_genius]

How exactly do you tell a person not to vote for you?

 

I would probably tell them via email.

 

I know what you're trying to say though, and Obama can't control who decides to support him. But I really don't think Obama got any type of unfair treatment (any worse than the other candidates have gotten) on this issue.

Edited February 28, 2008 by mr_genius

[Chet Lemon]

Obama said he denounced Farrakhan's statements. not the guy himself. Russert followed up, asking if he rejected Farrakhan's support.

Democrat Ohio Debate Transcript:

 

 

You know, I have been very clear in my denunciations of him and his past statements. And I think that indicates to the American people what my stance is on those comments.

 

[bmags]

mr. G, I mean, read that again, how excessive was that. 5 minutes of him saying he denounces the man and his statements. "But, he called judaism a gutter religion as well" "Well Then I support him" Russert: "GOTCHA" Obama: "DAMN IT RUSSERT YOU SHOWED MY TRUE COLORS"

[mr_genius]

mr. G, I mean, read that again, how excessive was that. 5 minutes of him saying he denounces the man and his statements. "But, he called judaism a gutter religion as well" "Well Then I support him" Russert: "GOTCHA" Obama: "DAMN IT RUSSERT YOU SHOWED MY TRUE COLORS"

 

Well, thats what Tim Russert does. It's nothing new. He hounds everyone with repetitive questions like that. As we already talked about in the thread, I think it's a better question to ask if this is appropriate type of stuff for a debate. Where the questioner begins to take center stage at times.

[bmags]

Well, thats what Tim Russert does. It's nothing new. He hounds everyone with repetitive questions like that. As we already talked about in the thread, I think it's a better question to ask if this is appropriate type of stuff for a debate. Where the questioner begins to take center stage at times.

 

that was the point, I was making fun of him for his tomfoolery on stage. *and him as a person*

[mr_genius]

You know, I have been very clear in my denunciations of him and his past statements. And I think that indicates to the American people what my stance is on those comments.

 

well to be fair, that was said after Russert asked his follow up question. But Russert was going off on one of his 'gotcha' type interviews. A lot of these debates have had this 'gotcha' stuff, with repeated follow ups from the moderator. Matthews asked Guilinai 6 follow-ups on one question. So take it for what it is, bad debate moderation.

Edited February 28, 2008 by mr_genius

[mr_genius]

that was the point, I was making fun of him for his tomfoolery on stage. *and him as a person*

 

 

Oh, ok. I thought you guys were aiming at "obama gets singled out for unfair treatment". my bad