DEM Primaries/Candidates thread

[bmags]

no no, i just thought that was the best example of Russert's incredulous "why don't you answer my questions to my absurd standards and I'll interrupt you until I get the answer nobody cares about"

[iamshack]

no no, i just thought that was the best example of Russert's incredulous "why don't you answer my questions to my absurd standards and I'll interrupt you until I get the answer nobody cares about"

 

Honestly, I disagree with that. How often do we watch these debates and the candidates will dance around the question or refuse to come anywhere near it entirely. Hilary is particularly fond of doing so, although Barack did so about the public financing of the general election question.

 

I see absolutely nothing wrong with Russert trying to make the candidates squirm a bit with uncomfortable questions. Basically, he was trying to get Obama to reject Farrakhan and whatever base he brings along with him, and Obama was unwilling to do so outright. I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

God forbid we try to make candidates make actual decisions as they will have to do should they ever reach the White House instead of skirting around every pointed question and stating they have a "plan" to fix everything.

[bmags]

Honestly, I disagree with that. How often do we watch these debates and the candidates will dance around the question or refuse to come anywhere near it entirely. Hilary is particularly fond of doing so, although Barack did so about the public financing of the general election question.

 

I see absolutely nothing wrong with Russert trying to make the candidates squirm a bit with uncomfortable questions. Basically, he was trying to get Obama to reject Farrakhan and whatever base he brings along with him, and Obama was unwilling to do so outright. I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

God forbid we try to make candidates make actual decisions as they will have to do should they ever reach the White House instead of skirting around every pointed question and stating they have a "plan" to fix everything.

 

How was he unwilling to do so, clinton and russert were looking for a specific synonym to what he already announced. IF you do not agree with someones anti-semitism, you do not agree with their anti-semitism. so "farrakhan endorsed you, should jewish americans trust you?" ANd "I did not seek out Farrakhans endorsement and have distanced myself from him" more than answer that question.

 

There is a difference between interviews and moderation, and aside from the fact that russert is terrible at both, moderators are supposed to guide, not seek. And he completely overtook the debate in a way I found disdainful. He's an egomaniac. Nobody cares about him, he forces it on. He had that "i'm looking out for the american people" logic in a way that isn't truly representative. It's so bad journalism logic. He's into creating a "gotcha" mode, and creating controversy, what we need now is a media that isn't so reactionary, that demands accountability. They aren't asking the obvious questions in results to things. It's one of the things i like about talkingpointsmemo so much, despite it's left slant, when something comes up, they get you the document, they check the facts, they don't report on the report. And Russert is just a blowhard, posing as someone searching for real truth just by yelling louder and acting more incredulous. And he's not the only one, but it's an unfortunate dimension to TV news. It is just shallow. And the once shining beacon of it, 60 minutes, is dead. Dateline is a joke. The news magazine has been taken over by hidden cameras and celeb interviews.

[BigSqwert]

When will Clinton reject and denounce the racist comments of a prominent hispanic supporter in Texas? I'd guess never.

[HuskyCaucasian]

When will Clinton reject and denounce the racist comments of a prominent hispanic supporter in Texas? I'd guess never.

 

When will Clinton reject and denounce the racist comments of herself??

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

Hillary the Hypocrate...

http://www.vertical-politics.com/2008/02/c...on-backtra.html

 

According to Hillary, Barack must renounce a "supporter" who has racist views against Jews.

However, when one of HER supports makes a racist comment against blacks... "You know This is a free country. People get to express their opinions. A lot of folks have said really unpleasant things about me over the course of this campaign. You can’ take any of that as anything other than an individual opinion."

 

She was asked by KTVT in Dallas about a Latina backer who said that black politicians never do anything for Hispanics. Her name is Adelfa Callejo. Apparently she’s 84.

 

[The question: "She recently told us that African-Americans never help Hispanics when they gain power and influence and that she would never vote for Sen. Obama, and now quoting here she said 'Obama’s problem is that he happens to be black.' How do you react to those comments?"]

 

The newscaster quoted her saying “Obama’s problem is that he happens to be black.”

 

Clinton: “Well obviously I want us judged on our merits. I believe strongly that the fact that we have an African American and a woman running for the Democratic nomination is historical and I’m very very proud of that . I want people thought to look beyond, look beyond race and gender, look at our records, look what we stand for, look what we’ve done and I think that;s what most voters are looking for.”

 

Q (paraphrase) Is this something you reject and denounce?

 

“People have every reason to express their opinions. I just don’t agree with that. I think that we should be looking at the individuals who are running.”

 

Q - Do you still want her support, though?

 

Clinton laughed and said, “You know This is a free country. People get to express their opinions. A lot of folks have said really unpleasant things about me over the course of this campaign. You can’ take any of that as anything other than an individual opinion.”

 

“I would urge all of my supporters and Sen. Obama’s supporters to stay focused on the two of us,. Don’t vote on race don’t vote on gender, vote on the qualifications each of us present for the presidency."

 

Q- But you criticized Obama for not rejecting the support form Farrakhan,

 

“I don’t see any comparison at all with what you’re referring to and I don’t know the facts of what you’re telling me over the TV. So I’m just going to repeat that I want people to judge us on the merits.”

[StrangeSox]

She doesn't see the comparison? I'd say it was an identical situation. One of her unsolicited (I'll give her the benefit of the doubt) supporters made a racist comment. One of Obama's unsolicited supporters made racist comments. Is it that hard of a comparison to draw?

[BigSqwert]

She doesn't see the comparison? I'd say it was an identical situation. One of her unsolicited (I'll give her the benefit of the doubt) supporters made a racist comment. One of Obama's unsolicited supporters made racist comments. Is it that hard of a comparison to draw?

Her supporter is a highly regarded Hispanic in Texas. Denouncing/rejecting this woman might lose Clinton some votes.

[BigSqwert]

Hillary the Hypocrate...

http://www.vertical-politics.com/2008/02/c...on-backtra.html

 

According to Hillary, Barack must renounce a "supporter" who has racist views against Jews.

However, when one of HER supports makes a racist comment against blacks... "You know This is a free country. People get to express their opinions. A lot of folks have said really unpleasant things about me over the course of this campaign. You can’ take any of that as anything other than an individual opinion."

I guess the post I made earlier (2 posts above) wasn't detailed enough?

[HuskyCaucasian]

I guess the post I made earlier (2 posts above) wasn't detailed enough?

OOPS! never actually read the article. lol my bad!

 

Best Line:

Later, aide Doug Hattaway said Clinton was taken aback by the question.

 

"She had never heard of this before," Hattaway said. "If it was actually said, of course she denounces and rejects that kind of politics in any way, shape or form."

 

So, even though she was told what the person said she said it was ok, then it "sunk in" and now it is not acceptable? hmmm.... talk about spin. It shouldnt take 2 seconds to denounce that kind statement.

Edited February 28, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[HuskyCaucasian]

Her supporter is a highly regarded Hispanic in Texas. Denouncing/rejecting this woman might lose Clinton some votes.

yea, ya know, wouldnt want to actually have a backbone and morals. sucha silly concept. This only continues to prove she will say and do anything to win.

[BigSqwert]

So, i have a REAL hard time believing it would take "some time". All she needs to do is call her tax people and it would take under 24-48 hours.

She's been busy watching SNL to do her taxes. Cut her some slack. The writers are back!

[BigSqwert]

As each day passes the polls keep looking better for Obama. Rassmussen has him with the lead in Texas now. 48-44%

[bmags]

I've heard all these polls don't mean anything with how strange texas's system is.

[NorthSideSox72]

I've heard all these polls don't mean anything with how strange texas's system is.

How is that? Its a primary, not a caucus, so the only complicating factor I can see is the regionality (delegates assigned on regions of the state).

 

[BigSqwert]

How is that? Its a primary, not a caucus, so the only complicating factor I can see is the regionality (delegates assigned on regions of the state).

It's a primary and a caucus.

Edited February 28, 2008 by BigSqwert

[BigSqwert]

Grassroots organizing is crucial in Texas, and the Texas Primary-Caucus is coming up on March 4th.

 

http://my.barackobama.com/page/s/txprecinct

[NorthSideSox72]

http://my.barackobama.com/page/s/txprecinct

OK... a primary-caucus? WTF? I'll read the link but, that just sounds bizarre.

 

Also, since its down to just two people, the caucus weirdness should be less of a factor anyway. Its all about ground game.

 

[kapkomet]

OK... a primary-caucus? WTF? I'll read the link but, that just sounds bizarre.

 

Also, since its down to just two people, the caucus weirdness should be less of a factor anyway. Its all about ground game.

The delegates get assigned by both caucus and a general primary election.

 

[iamshack]

How was he unwilling to do so, clinton and russert were looking for a specific synonym to what he already announced. IF you do not agree with someones anti-semitism, you do not agree with their anti-semitism. so "farrakhan endorsed you, should jewish americans trust you?" ANd "I did not seek out Farrakhans endorsement and have distanced myself from him" more than answer that question.

 

There is a difference between interviews and moderation, and aside from the fact that russert is terrible at both, moderators are supposed to guide, not seek. And he completely overtook the debate in a way I found disdainful. He's an egomaniac. Nobody cares about him, he forces it on. He had that "i'm looking out for the american people" logic in a way that isn't truly representative. It's so bad journalism logic. He's into creating a "gotcha" mode, and creating controversy, what we need now is a media that isn't so reactionary, that demands accountability. They aren't asking the obvious questions in results to things. It's one of the things i like about talkingpointsmemo so much, despite it's left slant, when something comes up, they get you the document, they check the facts, they don't report on the report. And Russert is just a blowhard, posing as someone searching for real truth just by yelling louder and acting more incredulous. And he's not the only one, but it's an unfortunate dimension to TV news. It is just shallow. And the once shining beacon of it, 60 minutes, is dead. Dateline is a joke. The news magazine has been taken over by hidden cameras and celeb interviews.

 

Well, I disagree with you, and apparently NBC does as well, as Russert is considered one of their top reporters/commentators.

 

I like the pointed questions, and I think it's necessary at this point in the campaign to do a little seeking. These two candidates are far too sharp and rehearsed to simply be "guided" at this point. Should Russert and Williams have simply sought to guide both Clinton and Obama they would have received the same answers and the very same debate as was held less than two weeks ago on CNN, which was already a litany of the same answers the candidates have been giving in their speeches on the trail. These two asked different questions, held the candidates to actually answering them, and therefore, I think at least on a few accounts there was some new information exchanged, if nothing else.

 

Some will not like Russert's style, although judging by his career trajectory there are quite a few more that do.

[bmags]

Well, I disagree with you, and apparently NBC does as well, as Russert is considered one of their top reporters/commentators.

 

I like the pointed questions, and I think it's necessary at this point in the campaign to do a little seeking. These two candidates are far too sharp and rehearsed to simply be "guided" at this point. Should Russert and Williams have simply sought to guide both Clinton and Obama they would have received the same answers and the very same debate as was held less than two weeks ago on CNN, which was already a litany of the same answers the candidates have been giving in their speeches on the trail. These two asked different questions, held the candidates to actually answering them, and therefore, I think at least on a few accounts there was some new information exchanged, if nothing else.

 

Some will not like Russert's style, although judging by his career trajectory there are quite a few more that do.

 

As for the first comment, my point exactly. Good TV journalists are ranked by how loud and interruptive they can be.

 

And as for the next bulk paragraph, they can reserve that style for interviews on their show or news conferences. Is it getting repetitive now? Yes, 20 debates into a primary season would get tedious. But it's a debate, between candidates, on issues and character. This has just been an unusually long primary season, and debates b/w parties can only go so far. That doesn't mean as a moderator you can make it about you and do these silly "gotcha" questions.

[YASNY]

Choose A or B

 

A. I support Hillary. Russert threw softballs at Obama while doing his best to bust Hillary's chops.

 

B. I support Barack. Russert threw softballs at Clinton while doing his best to bust Barack's chops.

 

This is pretty much what I've been reading.

 

[iamshack]

As for the first comment, my point exactly. Good TV journalists are ranked by how loud and interruptive they can be.

 

And as for the next bulk paragraph, they can reserve that style for interviews on their show or news conferences. Is it getting repetitive now? Yes, 20 debates into a primary season would get tedious. But it's a debate, between candidates, on issues and character. This has just been an unusually long primary season, and debates b/w parties can only go so far. That doesn't mean as a moderator you can make it about you and do these silly "gotcha" questions.

 

I don't consider Brian Williams to be loud and interruptive.

 

Secondly, Russert didn't make it about him. YOU made it about him because he actually had the stones to not let the candidates give a bs answer to tough questions, and you weren't accustomed to that by the previous moderators.

 

As long as he questioned both the candidates in the same manner, I really cannot buy that there was any harm done or that his style was not effective simply because he took a very active role in the proceedings. Obviously, some viewers have different opinions on his style, but I actually favor his. As we've seen with other moderators, otherwise, the debates just serve as another forum for stump speeches. These candidates have to be reeled in at times and forced to focus on important points/issues.

Edited February 28, 2008 by iamshack

[kapkomet]

Choose A or B

 

A. I support Hillary. Russert threw softballs at Obama while doing his best to bust Hillary's chops.

 

B. I support Barack. Russert threw softballs at Clinton while doing his best to bust Barack's chops.

 

This is pretty much what I've been reading.

Then it was equal opportunity drive by media butchering, eh?

 

 

So Obama and John McCain are in downtown Fort Worth today.

[iamshack]

Choose A or B

 

A. I support Hillary. Russert threw softballs at Obama while doing his best to bust Hillary's chops.

 

B. I support Barack. Russert threw softballs at Clinton while doing his best to bust Barack's chops.

 

This is pretty much what I've been reading.

 

C. I support Barack. Russert busted their chops equally, and it was a nice change of style/pace from previous moderators.