DEM Primaries/Candidates thread

[EvilMonkey]

I wonder if AP only 'fact checks' stories that make Democrats look bad? Also, kinda nice how their facts are hard to verify :

Tracking civilian deaths is a difficult task because they often occur in remote and dangerous areas that are difficult to reach and verify

.

but yet claim with certainty that:

the AP count shows that while militants killed 231 civilians in attacks in 2007, Western forces killed 286. Another 20 were killed in crossfire that can't be attributed to one party.

Now just how did they come up with those numbers? Do they get the 'facts' from the same stringers that send them doctored photos?

[southsider2k5]

AP Fact Check: Obama on Afghanistan

 

Spin it how you like, Obama is not cut out for a 21st century campaign. He does not get that the soundbyte is more important than the spin after the fact. He has got to watch his words, and the results are showing in the polls. He has been falling like a rock over the last month as the Clinton Machine has opened up a huge lead. Calling the American military the 21st century equivilent of "baby killers" won't help that, even if there is "proof" that it is true.

[BigSqwert]

Eric Holder joins Obama

Posted at 11:52 AM

 

By James Oliphant

 

Sen. Barack Obama has signed on a high-profile Washington adviser, one who could end up playing an important role in a potential presidential transition team or Obama cabinet.

 

Eric Holder has joined Obama’s presidential campaign. The former deputy attorney general under Janet Reno during the Clinton administration, Holder has spent the last six years as a corporate litigator and white-collar defense attorney at the powerhouse D.C. law firm of Covington & Burling. Holder is also a former federal judge and former U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia. He was recently retained by the National Football League to probe allegations of Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick’s involvement in illegal dogfighting.

 

Given Holder’s credentials, it isn’t outside the realm of possibility to suggest he could wind up the nation’s first African-American attorney general should Obama win the White House.

 

Holder was in Chicago meeting with campaign officials Thursday. He says he’s advising the campaign on “legal issues and strategy.”

 

LINK

[NorthSideSox72]

LINK

Well, Obama sure as heck needs some strategy help. He is, in some ways, suffering from some of the same problems Kerry did - trying for a public persona that does not fit his natural style. Its not too late for hinm to change gears, and he needs to if he wants a chance to win.

 

[Balta1701]

WSJ

As a presidential candidate, Democrat John Edwards has regularly attacked subprime lenders, particularly those that have filed foreclosure suits against victims of Hurricane Katrina. But as an investor, Mr. Edwards has ties to lenders foreclosing on Katrina victims.

 

The Wall Street Journal has identified 34 New Orleans homes whose owners have faced foreclosure suits from subprime-lending units of Fortress Investment Group LLC. Mr. Edwards has about $16 million invested in Fortress funds, according to a campaign aide who confirmed a more general Federal Election Commission report. Mr. Edwards worked for Fortress, a publicly held private-equity fund, from late 2005 through 2006.

Edwards response:

Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards, who has called homeownership "the foundation of the American dream," said Friday he will divest his holdings in funds linked to lenders that have foreclosed on Hurricane Katrina victims.

 

"I will not have my family's money involved in these firms that are foreclosing on people in New Orleans," he told the Associated Press.

 

Edwards has reported $29.5 million in assets, millions of which are invested in the hedge fund Fortress Investment Group., a company that paid him nearly half a million dollars last year for consulting advice.

 

Fortress has investments in lenders that offer subprime mortgages, higher priced loans for borrowers considered greater risks. The Wall Street Journal on Friday identified 34 New Orleans homeowners who face foreclosure actions from lenders connected to Fortress.

 

"My reaction is I'm going to help these people," Edwards said in a telephone interview. "I just learned about this. I don't know the details, I will find out and I will find a way to help them."

[kapkomet]

Edwards is the biggest assbag in a race full of assbags.

 

[EvilMonkey]

So Edwards sells his $16 million in stock and ends up with $16 million in cash. How does that help the people? How does divesting himself of the stock reactivly somehow alieve him from his hypocrisy? A good PR move would be for him to sell his shares, and donate thae proceeds to the very people being foreclosed.

[kapkomet]

So Edwards sells his $16 million in stock and ends up with $16 million in cash. How does that help the people? How does divesting himself of the stock reactivly somehow alieve him from his hypocrisy? A good PR move would be for him to sell his shares, and donate thae proceeds to the very people being foreclosed.

 

Again, assbag of assbags.

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

So the big Iowa debate is coming up, and the polls have Hillary and Obama at 27%, with Edwards at 26%. This state is huge to kick off the season.

[Texsox]

Again, assbag of assbags.

 

I think we have some good people trying to live up to an impossibly high standard in both parties.

[EvilMonkey]

How clueless can he be?

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/20...ko-twister.html

 

'Sicko' Twister

Email

Share August 17, 2007 3:57 PM

 

ABC News' Rick Klein Reports: When an Iowa resident asked former senator John Edwards Thursday whether the United States should follow the Cuban healthcare model, the 2004 vice presidential contender deflected the question by saying he didn't know enough to answer the question.

 

"I'm going to be honest with you -- I don't know a lot about Cuba's healthcare system," Edwards, D-N.C., said at an event in Oskaloosa, Iowa. "Is it a government-run system?"

 

But just three days earlier, the candidate was asked a question about the Michael Moore documentary "Sicko" -- which focuses extensively on the Cuban healthcare system.

 

As Willie Nelson's classic "On the Road Again" blared, Edwards leaned out of a window of his campaign bus dubbed "Fighting for One America", to hear an off-camera voice howl, "I wanted to ask ya, is it required that everyone go see "Fahrenheit 9/11" and "Sicko"?

 

Edwards, in between autographs outside Dan's Pizzeria in Onawa, Iowa, replies, "I watched Sicko," later adding, "It's a great movie."

 

You can watch the moment captured by C-SPAN and spread to the world on YouTube by clicking here.

 

Is this a cinematic flip flop? Another hairy situation for the Edwards camp?

 

As they say in the NFL, after further review, ABC News says it may not be so.

 

With the help of our able colleagues at ABC News Radio, we isolated the audio, enhancing it to hear a key phrase that Edwards says between his claim of seeing "Sicko" and proclaiming it "a great movie."

 

In the exchange, barely audible over the twang of Willie, Edwards adds, "I didn't quite get to see the end."

 

While not a silver bullet, the exchange begs the question: does one really need to see the end of "Sicko" to know that communist Cuba provides government-run healthcare

 

Seriously, how can you watch Sicko, and not know that Cuba's healthcare is government run? This guy is such an empty suit. So in the last week he got into name calling with Ann Coulter, got caught as a hypocrit with his direct involvement with sub-prime lending and now that he has no grasp on foreign affairs. I wonder if he even knows where Cuba is?

[Texsox]

How clueless can he be?

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/20...ko-twister.html

 

 

 

Seriously, how can you watch Sicko, and not know that Cuba's healthcare is government run? This guy is such an empty suit. So in the last week he got into name calling with Ann Coulter, got caught as a hypocrit with his direct involvement with sub-prime lending and now that he has no grasp on foreign affairs. I wonder if he even knows where Cuba is?

 

And if he believed a Moore documentary, you would feel better about him? Can't win in this could he? If he said all he knows is what he saw in that film, you'd attack.

[EvilMonkey]

The fact that he knows as little about Cuba as he does is alarming in itself.

[Texsox]

The fact that he knows as little about Cuba as he does is alarming in itself.

 

I guess Cuba is a hot button topic for you. Which candidate has the best grasp of Cuba?

[EvilMonkey]

Oh please. If Mitt Romney said that he had no idea whether Cuba's healthcare system is government run, YOU would be all over him. That is something simple that he should know. Healthcare in general is a huge issue. Edwards is an empty suit.

[Texsox]

Oh please. If Mitt Romney said that he had no idea whether Cuba's healthcare system is government run, YOU would be all over him. That is something simple that he should know. Healthcare in general is a huge issue. Edwards is an empty suit.

 

If Moore doesn't make that film, no one would give two s***s about their health care system. What other third world s*** holes should candidates know about in regards to their health care systems? Peru? Guatemala? Find another thing, this one ain't got legs.

[EvilMonkey]

You also left out if the MSM doesn't break its back trying to help Moore portray the Cuban paradise as the mecca of healthcare, noone would give a s***. But that strawman won't work. He DID make the movie, the MSM DID hype the Cuban system, Edwards SAW the movie and said it was 'great', then proved that he DIDN'T know s***.

[Texsox]

You also left out if the MSM doesn't break its back trying to help Moore portray the Cuban paradise as the mecca of healthcare, noone would give a s***. But that strawman won't work. He DID make the movie, the MSM DID hype the Cuban system, Edwards SAW the movie and said it was 'great', then proved that he DIDN'T know s***.

 

whatever. I'm more interested in Iraq, Social Security, Homeland Security and the environment. So please pay attention to each candidates' knowledge of Cuba and keep us posted. I'm certain we can't live without a President with a thorough working knowledge of Cuba going in.

perhaps watching that documentary would make you an expert and able to make policy decisions, but I would be frightened by someone who watched that and felt competent enough to make up policy. That's like watching an episode of the Simpsons and deciding on Nuclear Plant Operations.

[EvilMonkey]

You know, USUALLY you argue in such a big picture sort of way that you distort the issue with alot of 'what if's'. Now you are stuck on something so small as to whether or not he saw Sicko. Edwards said he saw Sicko, he even recommended it. Then said he had no idea what kind of health care system Cuba had. Whether or not he 'believes' Moore, if he saw the movie, he would have had to have had some idea what kind of system they had. In fact, for a candidate that has such an extensive list of healthcare ideas and proposals on his webpage, he damn well better have an idea of what kind of system they have, because it is similar to what he proposes. You would think that he would have researched (or at least had staff do it) all the healthcare systems in place today to see what works and what doesn't. Edwards either lied about seeing Sicko, or doesn't know beans about healthcare. or both. I would think in your list of important issues that healthcare would also be important to you, and what the candidates know about it and plan to do about it. You have certainly been active in the few healthcare threads on here such as "Interesting read on the problems with cost of insurance/medicine" and " Texas Ordering all girls to have cancer vaccine". On a different note, I am suprised at the lack of healthcare posts since it is such a huge issue in the upcoming elections. I went back to August of last year, and even if you throw in stem cell posts, we might have 6 in total.

[Texsox]

In researching health care systems around the globe, Cuba would be waaaay down my list. I see you are a big fan and it is a big issue. So which candidate has the best grasp of commie, third world, health care?

[EvilMonkey]

The issue is about Edwards, not me and Cuba. I know it is late Tex, but you need to focus. And you are right, normally Cuba and their healthcare system would be waaaay down on the list. Except for all the international reports listing it favorably, and how the life expectancy is higher than it is here, and the infant mortality rate is so much lower than it is here. And how they do it on a shoestring budget. And you can't undo the fact that Moore DID make a movie touting the wonderland of Cuba, and the MSM so glowingly heaped praise on the land of milk and honey. So in light of all of those thing, he would be a fool to have not at least given Cuba a cursory look, to see if all that was being said was true, and could somehow be put to use here. Go on, keep trying to make this about me and some Cuba-fetish, you are just avoiding the issue.

[Texsox]

OK, less sarcasm and snark.

 

Of the thousands of issues that possible can come up, this is so far down my radar, it just doesn't compute. I would never ask any candidate for such detail. Like debates, these things don't come up in real life. What matters is his thought out opinions and the direction he wants to go.

 

I think Moore's stuff is suspect at best and can't even begin to think that his work could be the basis of anything except Dem bashing. Moore is the GOPs wet dream.

[kapkomet]

Remember: many people HERE (in the filibuster) wet dream every time this man puts out a film and heap the praises on him about what an excellent job he does about "focusing on today's issues"... just sayin'.

 

[FlaSoxxJim]

Remember: many people HERE (in the filibuster) wet dream every time this man puts out a film and heap the praises on him about what an excellent job he does about "focusing on today's issues"... just sayin'.

 

Wet dreams aside, I'm one of those people.

 

Go ahead and dismiss Moore and Swiftboat him all you want, he's become a Bogeyman rallying point for the radical right and he's obviously not going to change that no matter what he puts out.

 

I was stunned to the point of speechlessness when I got the true story behind the origins of HMOs. To actually hear tape of Halderman and Nixon creaming over a sinister plan to get workling America to cough up more money for less health care is chilling and it was Moore who revealed those origins to a mass audience. It's highly instructive to see which sectors of American big business are trying hard to discredit Moore and his message because it's easier to smear him as a lefty nutjob than to actually respond to the issues he brings into focus. And they have convinced a lot of you to carry water for them.

 

Health care has been important to Moore for more than a decade, and he literally saved a man's life when his TV show held a dying man's funeral on the front lawn of his insurance company to highlight the fact that a hardworking, insured American was dying needlessly because the health care bureaucracy deemed the treatment he needed to be elective and uncoverable by them. A TV stunt got the company to change its mind and cover the treatment and the man lived. Somehow I'm in the minority to think this is a good thing.

[kapkomet]

Wet dreams aside, I'm one of those people.

 

Go ahead and dismiss Moore and Swiftboat him all you want, he's become a Bogeyman rallying point for the radical right and he's obviously not going to change that no matter what he puts out.

 

I was stunned to the point of speechlessness when I got the true story behind the origins of HMOs. To actually hear tape of Halderman and Nixon creaming over a sinister plan to get workling America to cough up more money for less health care is chilling and it was Moore who revealed those origins to a mass audience. It's highly instructive to see which sectors of American big business are trying hard to discredit Moore and his message because it's easier to smear him as a lefty nutjob than to actually respond to the issues he brings into focus. And they have convinced a lot of you to carry water for them.

 

Health care has been important to Moore for more than a decade, and he literally saved a man's life when his TV show held a dying man's funeral on the front lawn of his insurance company to highlight the fact that a hardworking, insured American was dying needlessly because the health care bureaucracy deemed the treatment he needed to be elective and uncoverable by them. A TV stunt got the company to change its mind and cover the treatment and the man lived. Somehow I'm in the minority to think this is a good thing.

Michael Moore is nothing but a hack who prays on emotionalism to get his point across. (of course, so is every politician alive today, but that's another topic). So he helped save a man. Kudos (seriously). However, all of the stuff you talk about is the exceptions, not the majority. There are thousands and thousands of lives that are saved all the time for every instance of what you talk about above.

 

Is our system perfect? HELL NO! Does it need changes? HELL YES! Is the answer "socialized" medicine, where I get told what doctor I will see, etc.? NOPE.