DEM Primaries/Candidates thread

[HuskyCaucasian]

SNL on the Petraeus testimony (Mocks McCain and Clinton, maybe Obama?)

[HuskyCaucasian]

My perspective on how the candidates would have handled "bitter-gate":

Obama: Puts his head down and bowls right threw it and deals with the issue

Clinton: Says she "misspoke", Cackle Laughs it Off, flat out lies she never said it

McCain: "Well, my friends..." we aren't your friends.

[mr_genius]

A bigot? Seriously? He makes statements alluding to the bitterness of rural folks and the good reasons for it (as well as what they do with it), who by the way will mostly be white, and he's a bigot? If there is any bigotry in his statements, to me, its pro-rural and pro-white.

 

I think it's the 'they clutch to guns, religion, and ant-immigrant vies as a way to cope' that is what might bother certain voters. it's pretty condescending. obviously no one is going to care if Obama says people who lost a job are just bitter.

 

If that stuff is all true, he shouldn't apologize. He should say "it's true, deal with it".

Edited April 13, 2008 by mr_genius

[HuskyCaucasian]

Long time Pennsylvanian, We are bitter:

 

[southsider2k5]

I think it's the 'they clutch to guns, religion, and ant-immigrant vies as a way to cope' that is what might bother certain voters. it's pretty condescending. obviously no one is going to care if Obama says people who lost a job are just bitter.

 

If that stuff is all true, he shouldn't apologize. He should say "it's true, deal with it".

 

Good point. I'd rather see that than the BS 21st century apology of, "if I offended anyone, I apoligize." If you are sorry, be sorry for what you said, if not, defend what you said and quit being a little b**** about it.

[EvilMonkey]

My perspective on how the candidates would have handled "bitter-gate":

Obama: Puts his head down and bowls right threw it and deals with the issue

Except that he didn't do that, he said that he could have said it better (misspoke) and tried to 'clarify' what he meant.

[lostfan]

Good point. I'd rather see that than the BS 21st century apology of, "if I offended anyone, I apoligize." If you are sorry, be sorry for what you said, if not, defend what you said and quit being a little b**** about it.

He didn't really take back what he said though, in so many words he said "I don't apolgize for what I said, just how I said it."

[HuskyCaucasian]

Clinton: Gore And Kerry Were Viewed As Elitist

Speaking to reporters in Pennsylvania on Sunday, Democratic Presidential candidate Hillary Clinton said that previous Democratic nominees lost in the general election because they were viewed as out of touch with the nation.

 

That's a nice way to piss of a man who hasnt endorsed yet and is rumored to be working to get you out of the race.

 

[kapkomet]

I guess my point is that there's no way any politician can win with a lot of people. Either they awful for pandering or awful for being blunt. There's nothing in between.

 

Kap, I didn't say you were a McCain supporter, btw. I just said that every candidate panders. A lot. This scandal seems to be purely about the fact that Obama didn't.

 

 

I am actually going to defend Obama here... For someone who grew up poor, and has now officially hit "upper middle" class, I know A LOT of people just like Obama mentioned. The elitists are the ones who have "yes" men feeding them crappy info to fit their campaign agendas, and have no idea about what is going on at the neighborhood level of things. I'd love to see Hillary Clinton step into a couple of the neighborhoods I lived in/grew up in, and ask those people living at/below poverty level if they were bitter and disenchanted with the political system or not.

They all pander, they all sway for what lobbyist they need.

 

SS, you saw where I came from. I don't think it was quite the same as you, but it was pretty similar. There ARE people "bitter" with the political process. Hell, I'm one of them. I'm bitter as hell. But, I also think that Obama said it the way he meant it originally, and that is that these people (as Hillary said) "cling" to beliefs that end up creating more of the same for the politicians we keep sending to Washington. Obama did NOT say that originally, but his spin of the subject is now how he's coming across.

 

Again, when you combine it with the company he has kept over the last 20+ years of his life and watch his "rise to power" I don't think Obama gives a damn about my plight more then any other person around here. He's saying what he needs to say to be elected, and that is more my point then anything.

[KipWellsFan]

They all pander, they all sway for what lobbyist they need.

 

SS, you saw where I came from. I don't think it was quite the same as you, but it was pretty similar. There ARE people "bitter" with the political process. Hell, I'm one of them. I'm bitter as hell. But, I also think that Obama said it the way he meant it originally, and that is that these people (as Hillary said) "cling" to beliefs that end up creating more of the same for the politicians we keep sending to Washington. Obama did NOT say that originally, but his spin of the subject is now how he's coming across.

 

Again, when you combine it with the company he has kept over the last 20+ years of his life and watch his "rise to power" I don't think Obama gives a damn about my plight more then any other person around here. He's saying what he needs to say to be elected, and that is more my point then anything.

 

I refuse to believe that any of the 3 remaining candidates, Hillary included, put themselves through so much grief simply to serve their own aims and ambitions.

[kapkomet]

I refuse to believe that any of the 3 remaining candidates, Hillary included, put themselves through so much grief simply to serve their own aims and ambitions.

That's pretty naive, IMO. Why else are these people doing what they're doing? For the good of "America"? Bulls***. They want their own 'aims and ambitions' met.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

He didn't really take back what he said though, in so many words he said "I don't apolgize for what I said, just how I said it."

 

Exactly. If there was nothing wrong with what he believed he said, stand up for it. I HATE the 21st century apology of I am sorry YOU got upset, but I am not really going to apologize. Its a pet peeve of mine. Don't make excuses, don't make s*** up, don't faux apologize... If you ARE sorry, say you are sorry. Damn, my two year old knows that.

[southsider2k5]

I refuse to believe that any of the 3 remaining candidates, Hillary included, put themselves through so much grief simply to serve their own aims and ambitions.

 

They have made nine figures worth of wealth for their grief. Why would they stop now?

[southsider2k5]

They all pander, they all sway for what lobbyist they need.

 

SS, you saw where I came from. I don't think it was quite the same as you, but it was pretty similar. There ARE people "bitter" with the political process. Hell, I'm one of them. I'm bitter as hell. But, I also think that Obama said it the way he meant it originally, and that is that these people (as Hillary said) "cling" to beliefs that end up creating more of the same for the politicians we keep sending to Washington. Obama did NOT say that originally, but his spin of the subject is now how he's coming across.

 

Again, when you combine it with the company he has kept over the last 20+ years of his life and watch his "rise to power" I don't think Obama gives a damn about my plight more then any other person around here. He's saying what he needs to say to be elected, and that is more my point then anything.

 

I know where you are going with this, and I think this is one spot where racism would still play a key role. I think the political system is still a big good old boys network, and if he REALLY believed this kind of stuff, they would have slaughtered him in the press by now. Keep in mind the guy is running against the Clinton Machine. If they had this kind of ammo, it would have been strategically placed in a third party media, and they would have blown it up in his face right before one of the key primaries, probably before Super Tuesday, but if not, the Texas/Ohio ones.

[Texsox]

I refuse to believe that any of the 3 remaining candidates, Hillary included, put themselves through so much grief simply to serve their own aims and ambitions.

 

 

That's pretty naive, IMO. Why else are these people doing what they're doing? For the good of "America"? Bulls***. They want their own 'aims and ambitions' met.

 

Somewhere in between the two, is the most accurate, and each candidate is probably at a slightly different spot. I think there motivation is not much different than anyone else running for office, they want things done "their way" which they believe is right. Certainly the power, recognition, or other internal reinforcements come with it.

 

But I think we could start at the local level, and using a real example, SS's run for the school board. I am certain that this came out of seeing problems, knowing what the correct solution is, and wanting to be in position to enact that plan. Would their have been some personal satisfaction mixed in? I would hope so.

 

ratchet it up a notch, and pick Mayor, Congressman, Governor, or President. The only thing that changes are the problems and the authority to make changes, the money to get there, the people who are interested and willing to help with their time, treasure, and talents.

 

But at the root, I think you have to have a motivation to serve. Looking at most of our leader's backgrounds they are involved from an early age and stay involved even after retirement. Whether it is Bush and Clinton raising money or Carter building homes for the homeless and monitoring elections.

[EvilMonkey]

Somewhere in between the two, is the most accurate, and each candidate is probably at a slightly different spot. I think there motivation is not much different than anyone else running for office, they want things done "their way" which they believe is right. Certainly the power, recognition, or other internal reinforcements come with it.

 

But I think we could start at the local level, and using a real example, SS's run for the school board. I am certain that this came out of seeing problems, knowing what the correct solution is, and wanting to be in position to enact that plan. Would their have been some personal satisfaction mixed in? I would hope so.

 

ratchet it up a notch, and pick Mayor, Congressman, Governor, or President. The only thing that changes are the problems and the authority to make changes, the money to get there, the people who are interested and willing to help with their time, treasure, and talents.

 

But at the root, I think you have to have a motivation to serve. Looking at most of our leader's backgrounds they are involved from an early age and stay involved even after retirement. Whether it is Bush and Clinton raising money or Carter building homes for the homeless and monitoring elections.

Tex, I am going to agree with you here for the most part. I think most people at least start for good reasons and intentions. It is when the bigger money gets involved that compromises have to be made, and that is where people start to change. When it takes a billion dollars to get elected to office, you owe alot of people.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Spin Time! Both McCain and Clinton are saying Obama said small town people TURN to religion, guns, ect when the economy goes bad. The problem? He never said that. He said they cling ( a word he now says he should not have used). Cling is a lot differant than turn.

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

Hillary Clinton's "Elitist" Comments?

"During the 1990s, I cannot remember being asked about immigration. Why? Because the economy was working. And average Americans didn't have to go around looking for others to blame."

So, is she saying that when times are bad they look for people to blame? Sounds rather similar to what Obama said.

[southsider2k5]

Hillary Clinton's "Elitist" Comments?

 

So, is she saying that when times are bad they look for people to blame? Sounds rather similar to what Obama said.

 

Or that someone is trying to read into someone's statement just like Clinton did...

[NorthSideSox72]

Or that someone is trying to read into someone's statement just like Clinton did...

Bingo.

 

This Dem race was a neat thing to watch for a while, and I'd even say it was energizing for the country. Now, its getting mired in a cesspool of bulls***. Hopefully Obama can win PA and this thing can just end. Unfortunately, I think Hillary will win by a few points, and it will drag on.

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

Or that someone is trying to read into someone's statement just like Clinton did...

the only difference I see is that Obama said they are looking for something and Clinton said they currently arent. Same idea, different time frames.

Edited April 14, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[jasonxctf]

**Exclusive**

 

Republican presidential hopeful John McCain has confided to his inner circle that Hillary Clinton may yet be the Democratic nominee, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned, a development the senator from Arizona would personally welcome!

 

"Look, I know something about long odds, they had me written off last summer," McCain explained over the weekend, according to a top source.

 

McCain would prefer to go up against Clinton in the general election, insiders reveal.

 

He has instructed his campaign staff to "chill out" on countering Hillary Clinton's torrent of claims and promises as primary voting comes to an end over the next 6 weeks.

 

McCain made the tactical decision to downplay Clinton's tale of Bosnia sniper fire, leaving some McCain staffers frustrated and perplexed.

 

Instead, the critical focus has been on Barack Obama. McCain's official website features 14 press releases taking on Obama since the first of the year, only 3 for the former first lady.

 

Developing...

[HuskyCaucasian]

Instead, the critical focus has been on Barack Obama. McCain's official website features 14 press releases taking on Obama since the first of the year, only 3 for the former first lady.

That's all the proof needed right there.

[southsider2k5]

That's all the proof needed right there.

 

What proof? Obama is leading this race by a country mile, and it would take a miracle for him to lose. Why would McCain waste his time on the far second place candidate, when he probably won't race against that person anyway? Should he be attacking Ron Paul still too? Common sense tells you to plan for who you are most likely to face.

[jasonxctf]

but.... neither candidate can win without super delegate help. thus, Hillary still has a chance of winning this thing. If McCain wanted, he could go after Clinton with Obama and thus make her have to fend off 2 challengers and potentially striking the knock out blow.

 

btw, not sure if it has been discussed here, but I've heard rumors of a Gore/Carter call on Clinton to drop out, either publicly or privately. Not as an endorsement of Obama per-say, but as a "save the party" call.