DEM Primaries/Candidates thread

[FlaSoxxJim]

Tex, think about his line there. He won't wear it beacuse it has come to stand for patriotism. WHY IS THAT BAD? Does he hate his country? Is he not a patriot? Is he ashamed of the flag, or looking to score points with the commie-fringe of the Dem party?

 

The point is that pins, bumper stickers, t-shirts, and bad country songs don't stand for patriotism — they have become stand-ins for patriotism. Apparently now patriots aren't supposed to ask what the hell was in the newly exposed 2005 torture memo and how the hell the torture enablers can sleep at night or anything like that. Just get indignant over someone's decision not to wear a flag pin and that will pass for patriotism.

 

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Tex, think about his line there. He won't wear it beacuse it has come to stand for patriotism. WHY IS THAT BAD? Does he hate his country? Is he not a patriot? Is he ashamed of the flag, or looking to score points with the commie-fringe of the Dem party?

You know, considering you are one of the people who harps on the supposed liberal media bias, I am amazed that you fell for this article hook, line and sinker.

 

Obama did NOT say anything even like "I won't wear it because it stands for patriotism". Not even close. Read his ACTUAL QUOTE here: "I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest, instead I'm going to try to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great. Hopefully that will be a testimony to my patriotism". Notice that the article's title, as well as the words of the author, are used here to make it seem as if this is a big deal, when in reading his quote, its really not. This is a small town news outlet trying to make a big splash. Seriously, do me a favor and read that article including his actual quote.

 

This can't be, can it? The media in Iowa, again, is criticizing and in fact inflating the truth to make a Democrat look bad? I am shocked. Shocked I tell you. This couldn't possibly be about making a big story on ANY big name, could it?

 

[BigSqwert]

Tex, think about his line there. He won't wear it beacuse it has come to stand for patriotism. WHY IS THAT BAD? Does he hate his country? Is he not a patriot? Is he ashamed of the flag, or looking to score points with the commie-fringe of the Dem party?

I keep googling pictures of Fred Thompson. Where is his flag pin?!?!? I thought he was a patriot but I guess I was wrong. Guess I'll have to vote for someone else now.

[BigSqwert]

This flag pin thing reminds me of when the Daily Show was making fun of the '04 candidates and showing footage of their speeches. Apparently they were trying to one up each other by putting more and more American flags in the background. Was completely ridiculous. Anyone who thinks this flag pin thing is a serious issue needs to get a clue. GMAFB.

[EvilMonkey]

I think it is more a comment against those that wrap themselves up in the right clothes, ribbons, and pins, but it is all window dressing. Something that we've complained about here. Giving speeches and not money. Being pro War and making certain you or a loved one didn't have to serve, etc. That's the "kind of" patriotism I believe he was talking about. My guy was a POW, he is waaaay more Patriotic than anyone in the field, so vote for McCain.

Being a politician, why would he NOT want to wear a flag pin? He wraps himself up in the right suits, why not add a pin? He doesn't have to start pointing to it and screaming about how patriotic he is, but why NOT wear it? What points can he be loking to score? Oh wait, he wants us to see his patriotism in his character. Sounds nice. But still doesn't answer the question of why not wear a pin? What can it hurt?

[BigSqwert]

Being a politician, why would he NOT want to wear a flag pin? He wraps himself up in the right suits, why not add a pin? He doesn't have to start pointing to it and screaming about how patriotic he is, but why NOT wear it? What points can he be loking to score? Oh wait, he wants us to see his patriotism in his character. Sounds nice. But still doesn't answer the question of why not wear a pin? What can it hurt?

I am completely baffled that you find this to be an issue. This is partisanship at its highest. There is a negative 1 million % chance that you would bring this up if it were Fred Thompson and not Obama.

[NorthSideSox72]

Being a politician, why would he NOT want to wear a flag pin? He wraps himself up in the right suits, why not add a pin? He doesn't have to start pointing to it and screaming about how patriotic he is, but why NOT wear it? What points can he be loking to score? Oh wait, he wants us to see his patriotism in his character. Sounds nice. But still doesn't answer the question of why not wear a pin? What can it hurt?

Ask Fred.

 

[EvilMonkey]

This flag pin thing reminds me of when the Daily Show was making fun of the '04 candidates and showing footage of their speeches. Apparently they were trying to one up each other by putting more and more American flags in the background. Was completely ridiculous. Anyone who thinks this flag pin thing is a serious issue needs to get a clue. GMAFB.

It's not that he wears it or doesn't wear it, it is his comments about why he doesn't wear it. If he would have said nothing, noone would have asked him 'hey barak, where the hell is your flag pin?'. But to come out more than once and say "The truth is that right after 9/11 I had a pin," Obama said. "Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq war, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security." What is wrong with patriotism? And if he won't wear a pin, because a few people who have worn one have done some bad things, why the hell is he even in politcs! If wearing a pin would make him bad by association, just being a Dem or Repub should be a death sentence.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071004/ap_on_...ama_no_flag_pin

(source of quote)

[BigSqwert]

Where's the pin??? Communist!!!

 

By the way

"Being a politician, why would FRED THOMPSON NOT want to wear a flag pin? He wraps himself up in the right suits, why not add a pin? He doesn't have to start pointing to it and screaming about how patriotic he is, but why NOT wear it?"

Edited October 5, 2007 by BigSqwert

[EvilMonkey]

I am completely baffled that you find this to be an issue. This is partisanship at its highest. There is a negative 1 million % chance that you would bring this up if it were Fred Thompson and not Obama.

If fred would come out and say 'I am not wearing a flag pin anymore because I choose not to associate myself with a symbol that has come to represent patriotism', I may not post it, but I sure as hell would be very disappointed. And would change my avitar. As for it being an 'issue', if he makes statements about it, it IS an issue. If he picks his nose, it is an issue. Staring the campaigning so damn early, EVERYTHING is an issue. lazy reporters need something to write about, and candidates can't be perfect all the time, so sometimes they make stupid remarks or do stupid things. Its all an issue.

[BigSqwert]

If fred would come out and say 'I am not wearing a flag pin anymore because I choose not to associate myself with a symbol that has come to represent patriotism', I may not post it, but I sure as hell would be very disappointed. And would change my avitar. As for it being an 'issue', if he makes statements about it, it IS an issue. If he picks his nose, it is an issue. Staring the campaigning so damn early, EVERYTHING is an issue. lazy reporters need something to write about, and candidates can't be perfect all the time, so sometimes they make stupid remarks or do stupid things. Its all an issue.

The answer this. You asked it about Obama:

 

"Being a politician, why would FRED THOMPSON NOT want to wear a flag pin? He wraps himself up in the right suits, why not add a pin? He doesn't have to start pointing to it and screaming about how patriotic he is, but why NOT wear it?"

[EvilMonkey]

Where's the pin??? Communist!!!

 

By the way

Barak was wearing, then stopped wearing to 'make a statement'. THAT is the issue here. besides, the way you guys spin things, if he WAS wearing one, you would be screaming that he is somehow pandering to the jingoistic tendencies of his base. As always, it's different.

[BigSqwert]

It's too bad those surveys that Kap and NSS linked didn't have this as the first question. I know it's the most important issue for selecting a candidate:

 

Do you find it important that a candidate wear an American flag pin?

 

[kapkomet]

The issue to me is not that Obama isn't wearing a stupid pin.

 

The issue is that he made a statement why he wasn't wearing one to call attention to the fact he wasn't wearing a flag pin. Why even go there? Or was this taken out of context and therefore did Obama get "Media Mattered"?

[kapkomet]

It's too bad those surveys that Kap and NSS linked didn't have this as the first question. I know it's the most important issue for selecting a candidate:

 

Nicely played.

[EvilMonkey]

The answer this. You asked it about Obama:

You see, the wearing of the flag pin was something that most Democratic candidates have doen at certain times to help combat the meme that they are somehow NOT patriotic. Maybe if he rephrases his statement to something like "I started wearing this because I felt I needed to prove my patriotism, and this was a cheap and easy fix. but you know what, this is just an empty symbol, especially if you don't mean it, so I am not going to wear it anymore. ' He is using the absense of it to now stand out from his competitiors. What voting block is he trying to appeal to with that move? or is it just a case of any press is good press?

[EvilMonkey]

The issue to me is not that Obama isn't wearing a stupid pin.

 

The issue is that he made a statement why he wasn't wearing one to call attention to the fact he wasn't wearing a flag pin. Why even go there? Or was this taken out of context and therefore did Obama get "Media Mattered"?

I should start running my rants by you first. That is the secoond time you have summed up my point in about 2 lines.

[kapkomet]

I should start running my rants by you first. That is the secoond time you have summed up my point in about 2 lines.

Well, my caveat is, was this taken out of context? Because to me, this is a stupid issue.

[BigSqwert]

Well, my caveat is, was this taken out of context? Because to me, this is a stupid issue.

From the link Alpha provided:

 

He had been asked about the pin Wednesday in an interview with KCRG-TV in Cedar Rapids.

 

So he was asked why he doesn't wear it anymore. I really don't see any of the candidates wear them anymore nor do I care as a voter. If there was a list of top 50 issues in this election cycle this issue would be #9643.

[NorthSideSox72]

Well, my caveat is, was this taken out of context? Because to me, this is a stupid issue.

Again folks, for the love of Mary, please READ THE ARTICLE.

 

Obama did NOT issue a statement. He also did NOT say he didn't want to be associated with the flag, or the symbol, at all. He said nothing of the sort. Someone asked him in an appearance why he wasn't wearing a flag pin that day, and he responded that he would rather let his words speak about his patriotism. Then, as again seen IN THE ARTICLE, the author puts statements around his quote to inflate the situation.

 

This is really about nothing at all. In fact, I am 90% sure that if someone asked the question of Thompson, or any other candidate in either party, they'd probably have said something very similar - oh, I'm patriotic, listen to my words, see how I am a patriot, I don't need a pin to show that.

 

[BigSqwert]

Again folks, for the love of Mary, please READ THE ARTICLE.

 

Obama did NOT issue a statement. He also did NOT say he didn't want to be associated with the flag, or the symbol, at all. He said nothing of the sort. Someone asked him in an appearance why he wasn't wearing a flag pin that day, and he responded that he would rather let his words speak about his patriotism. Then, as again seen IN THE ARTICLE, the author puts statements around his quote to inflate the situation.

 

This is really about nothing at all. In fact, I am 90% sure that if someone asked the question of Thompson, or any other candidate in either party, they'd probably have said something very similar - oh, I'm patriotic, listen to my words, see how I am a patriot, I don't need a pin to show that.

The actual question from the reporter:

 

Reporter: “One last quick question, and this is just kind of a lighter note, you don’t have an American flag pin on, is this a fashion statement? Those have been on politicians since September 12, 2001?”

Edited October 5, 2007 by BigSqwert

[kapkomet]

ok, got it.

 

But my question is, why the hell even ask the question? That's #1.

 

#2: why does Obama have to answer it that way? I guess "I forgot to put it on" sounds too much like Fred Thonpson? Why the contrived, theatrical, dramatic answer?

 

Again, it's a dumb issue, and it stemmed from a dumb question, but the answer is very tacky and in poor taste, IMO. Why make it such a big issue by answering it that way ("big" being relative, of course)?

 

Edit: just read NSS's and your post. Thanks for clarifying, and it is a non-issue, much like I thought, which is why I asked the "context" question.

 

Edited October 5, 2007 by kapkomet

[kapkomet]

Again folks, for the love of Mary, please READ THE ARTICLE.

 

Obama did NOT issue a statement. He also did NOT say he didn't want to be associated with the flag, or the symbol, at all. He said nothing of the sort. Someone asked him in an appearance why he wasn't wearing a flag pin that day, and he responded that he would rather let his words speak about his patriotism. Then, as again seen IN THE ARTICLE, the author puts statements around his quote to inflate the situation.

 

This is really about nothing at all. In fact, I am 90% sure that if someone asked the question of Thompson, or any other candidate in either party, they'd probably have said something very similar - oh, I'm patriotic, listen to my words, see how I am a patriot, I don't need a pin to show that.

That's what it sounds like to me. Thanks for putting it that way. Now I understand. This is REALLY stupid then.

[Texsox]

Thanks guys. It was so much better to come in late and read the thread. Awesome stuff.

[BigSqwert]

Obama's Energy Plan

 

He will formally announce it in a speech later today.