DEM Primaries/Candidates thread

[YASNY]

I agree completely. Even if it was genuine (and I tend to think it was--even if it was mostly because of frustration as opposed to hopefulness or optimism) crying is the WORST thing she could do. She's f***ed either way. I'm not even going to get into a gender debate here, but I think that plays a huge role for Hillary. I just don't think America is ready for a female head of state yet.

 

I think the problem with Hillary is that she is, fundamentally, an intellectual. (I feel entitled to say this because I am surrounded by those rat bastards all day.) She lacks the ability to really seem compassionate. I think her ideas are good. She's articulate. But she has no charisma and/or people skills.

 

Here's my question: why the fudge would anyone WANT to be president? You have to be pretty messed up, imo, to want it in the first place.

 

I'll put my two cents in here on the fact that Hillary got emotional. That moment is most human side of Hillary that I've seen from her. She has always, imo, comes across as 'the iron lady' and this kind of shows a chink in her armor. In fact, I think this incident will help her rather than hurt her.

[Gene Honda Civic]

I'll put my two cents in here on the fact that Hillary got emotional. That moment is most human side of Hillary that I've seen from her. She has always, imo, comes across as 'the iron lady' and this kind of shows a chink in her armor. In fact, I think this incident will help her rather than hurt her.

My thought was that it was a calculated and direct response to 'the iron lady' syndrome of which you speak.

[YASNY]

My thought was that it was a calculated and direct response to 'the iron lady' syndrome of which you speak.

 

I didn't think it was calculated. I don't know, though. I despise the lady, but I think this was the real thing.

[southsider2k5]

My thought was that it was a calculated and direct response to 'the iron lady' syndrome of which you speak.

 

That was my first thought as well... The Clintons never met a poll they didn't like.

[Rex Kickass]

Dixville Notch cast their votes. First in the state that's first in the nation.

 

Turnout: 10 votes

Obama 7

Edwards 2

Richardson 1

[longshot7]

I'll put my two cents in here on the fact that Hillary got emotional. That moment is most human side of Hillary that I've seen from her. She has always, imo, comes across as 'the iron lady' and this kind of shows a chink in her armor. In fact, I think this incident will help her rather than hurt her.

 

Agreed.

 

And Edwards has that smarmy trial lawyer delivery down pat - and that's not good. A lot of people see him as the "say anything to get elected" type.

[Reddy]

Agreed.

 

And Edwards has that smarmy trial lawyer delivery down pat - and that's not good. A lot of people see him as the "say anything to get elected" type.

 

even though he's the exact opposite....?

 

i understand y'all don't like trial lawyers apparently, but i'm staying right now with a doctor who is a die hard edwards supporter. hmmm interesting that he doesn't fault him for his career choice.

 

Edwards, if you actually talked to the man - if you actually listened - is the most genuine candidate i think we've seen in a long time. why is it that every other candidate keeps stealing his ideas, platforms, even speeches? Yesterday i heard Clinton say "this is very personal for me". Straight out of John Edwards. Obama said "I walk the walk". Straight out of John Edwards. The health care plans? Edwards came up with it first - they took it and called it their own. He's been a leader on almost every issue but he's not black and he's not a woman so the media didn't care. He also is against the giant corporate conglomerates that RUN the media... so they have a stake in him losing.

 

look - yesterday i met some incredible people. people with nothing - literally clawing to survive. a house made of wooden shingles and a tin roof. IN AMERICA. These people have been thrown by the wayside. The husband of a couple i met lost his job cuz he was hurt. Now he's "supporting" his family off of SS. for how long? and is that enough? no. They told me about friends dying because they didn't have health insurance. I talked with him and his wife for half an hour yesterday and when i left i was near tears because it was that heartbreaking. I've never been so inspired in my life This is who Edwards is fighting for. These people NEED this man. Obama can't do it - doesn't have the balls. Clinton can't do it - she just doesn't care about these people. You all can bicker all you want about this that and the other, but right now I'm out here fighting for people with nothing and i'm fighting against huge odds to get a man into office who can change this country. Y'all might think i'm a bit crazy - but sometimes you need crazy people out there if you want to actually accomplish something.

[kapkomet]

And Edward's plan is a recycled version of a bunch of other plans that have been floated before. Sorry to burst your bubble, but this guy is not doing anything that hasn't been thought of before. It's not like he has all these "revolutionary" ideas.

[StrangeSox]

Did you ever think that a lot of people have heard and understood Edwards' message and simply don't like it?

[BigSqwert]

Looking forward to SC. Two latest polls:

 

Rasmussen Obama +12.0

SurveyUSA Obama +20.0

 

LINK

[YASNY]

even though he's the exact opposite....?

 

i understand y'all don't like trial lawyers apparently, but i'm staying right now with a doctor who is a die hard edwards supporter. hmmm interesting that he doesn't fault him for his career choice.

 

Edwards, if you actually talked to the man - if you actually listened - is the most genuine candidate i think we've seen in a long time. why is it that every other candidate keeps stealing his ideas, platforms, even speeches? Yesterday i heard Clinton say "this is very personal for me". Straight out of John Edwards. Obama said "I walk the walk". Straight out of John Edwards. The health care plans? Edwards came up with it first - they took it and called it their own. He's been a leader on almost every issue but he's not black and he's not a woman so the media didn't care. He also is against the giant corporate conglomerates that RUN the media... so they have a stake in him losing.

 

look - yesterday i met some incredible people. people with nothing - literally clawing to survive. a house made of wooden shingles and a tin roof. IN AMERICA. These people have been thrown by the wayside. The husband of a couple i met lost his job cuz he was hurt. Now he's "supporting" his family off of SS. for how long? and is that enough? no. They told me about friends dying because they didn't have health insurance. I talked with him and his wife for half an hour yesterday and when i left i was near tears because it was that heartbreaking. I've never been so inspired in my life This is who Edwards is fighting for. These people NEED this man. Obama can't do it - doesn't have the balls. Clinton can't do it - she just doesn't care about these people. You all can bicker all you want about this that and the other, but right now I'm out here fighting for people with nothing and i'm fighting against huge odds to get a man into office who can change this country. Y'all might think i'm a bit crazy - but sometimes you need crazy people out there if you want to actually accomplish something.

 

I'll say this much for you. You believe in the man and are out there trying to get him elected. Good for you!

[BigSqwert]

I'll say this much for you. You believe in the man and are out there trying to get him elected. Good for you!

Indeed. I love to see the passion.

[Soxy]

I may have to eat my words on this but, I think you're off Reddy. If there is anywhere in the nation where Hillary will do better than Edwards (or maybe her best) it's on the East Coast.

 

[Rex Kickass]

even though he's the exact opposite....?

 

i understand y'all don't like trial lawyers apparently, but i'm staying right now with a doctor who is a die hard edwards supporter. hmmm interesting that he doesn't fault him for his career choice.

 

Edwards, if you actually talked to the man - if you actually listened - is the most genuine candidate i think we've seen in a long time. why is it that every other candidate keeps stealing his ideas, platforms, even speeches? Yesterday i heard Clinton say "this is very personal for me". Straight out of John Edwards. Obama said "I walk the walk". Straight out of John Edwards. The health care plans? Edwards came up with it first - they took it and called it their own. He's been a leader on almost every issue but he's not black and he's not a woman so the media didn't care. He also is against the giant corporate conglomerates that RUN the media... so they have a stake in him losing.

 

look - yesterday i met some incredible people. people with nothing - literally clawing to survive. a house made of wooden shingles and a tin roof. IN AMERICA. These people have been thrown by the wayside. The husband of a couple i met lost his job cuz he was hurt. Now he's "supporting" his family off of SS. for how long? and is that enough? no. They told me about friends dying because they didn't have health insurance. I talked with him and his wife for half an hour yesterday and when i left i was near tears because it was that heartbreaking. I've never been so inspired in my life This is who Edwards is fighting for. These people NEED this man. Obama can't do it - doesn't have the balls. Clinton can't do it - she just doesn't care about these people. You all can bicker all you want about this that and the other, but right now I'm out here fighting for people with nothing and i'm fighting against huge odds to get a man into office who can change this country. Y'all might think i'm a bit crazy - but sometimes you need crazy people out there if you want to actually accomplish something.

 

Reddy: Hillary was all about universal health care before John Edwards even entered public life.

[BigSqwert]

even though he's the exact opposite....?

 

i understand y'all don't like trial lawyers apparently, but i'm staying right now with a doctor who is a die hard edwards supporter. hmmm interesting that he doesn't fault him for his career choice.

 

Edwards, if you actually talked to the man - if you actually listened - is the most genuine candidate i think we've seen in a long time. why is it that every other candidate keeps stealing his ideas, platforms, even speeches? Yesterday i heard Clinton say "this is very personal for me". Straight out of John Edwards. Obama said "I walk the walk". Straight out of John Edwards. The health care plans? Edwards came up with it first - they took it and called it their own. He's been a leader on almost every issue but he's not black and he's not a woman so the media didn't care. He also is against the giant corporate conglomerates that RUN the media... so they have a stake in him losing.

 

look - yesterday i met some incredible people. people with nothing - literally clawing to survive. a house made of wooden shingles and a tin roof. IN AMERICA. These people have been thrown by the wayside. The husband of a couple i met lost his job cuz he was hurt. Now he's "supporting" his family off of SS. for how long? and is that enough? no. They told me about friends dying because they didn't have health insurance. I talked with him and his wife for half an hour yesterday and when i left i was near tears because it was that heartbreaking. I've never been so inspired in my life This is who Edwards is fighting for. These people NEED this man. Obama can't do it - doesn't have the balls. Clinton can't do it - she just doesn't care about these people. You all can bicker all you want about this that and the other, but right now I'm out here fighting for people with nothing and i'm fighting against huge odds to get a man into office who can change this country. Y'all might think i'm a bit crazy - but sometimes you need crazy people out there if you want to actually accomplish something.

 

If you want to talk about copycats read this article by Chuck Todd. He talks about Obama's message when he first announced he was running last February. He basically says his speech that day sounds almost the same as something he would say today. He was using change as a message 11 months ago and now all the candidates on both sides of the aisle are suddenly about change.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22541240/

 

[kapkomet]

If you want to talk about copycats read this article by Chuck Todd. He talks about Obama's message when he first announced he was running last February. He basically says his speech that day sounds almost the same as something he would say today. He was using change as a message 11 months ago and now all the candidates on both sides of the aisle are suddenly about change.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22541240/

To be honest, that's all Obama has EVER said. He's loose on what's going to change and how it's going to change, but it's about change. And the truth of the matter is, people are so sick of the slimeball factor in politics that his "change" message resonates well, even though he probably has no idea what he's really going to do yet.

[BigSqwert]

To be honest, that's all Obama has EVER said. He's loose on what's going to change and how it's going to change, but it's about change. And the truth of the matter is, people are so sick of the slimeball factor in politics that his "change" message resonates well, even though he probably has no idea what he's really going to do yet.

Go sit on the can and read through this.

ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf

[southsider2k5]

even though he's the exact opposite....?

 

i understand y'all don't like trial lawyers apparently, but i'm staying right now with a doctor who is a die hard edwards supporter. hmmm interesting that he doesn't fault him for his career choice.

 

Edwards, if you actually talked to the man - if you actually listened - is the most genuine candidate i think we've seen in a long time. why is it that every other candidate keeps stealing his ideas, platforms, even speeches? Yesterday i heard Clinton say "this is very personal for me". Straight out of John Edwards. Obama said "I walk the walk". Straight out of John Edwards. The health care plans? Edwards came up with it first - they took it and called it their own. He's been a leader on almost every issue but he's not black and he's not a woman so the media didn't care. He also is against the giant corporate conglomerates that RUN the media... so they have a stake in him losing.

 

look - yesterday i met some incredible people. people with nothing - literally clawing to survive. a house made of wooden shingles and a tin roof. IN AMERICA. These people have been thrown by the wayside. The husband of a couple i met lost his job cuz he was hurt. Now he's "supporting" his family off of SS. for how long? and is that enough? no. They told me about friends dying because they didn't have health insurance. I talked with him and his wife for half an hour yesterday and when i left i was near tears because it was that heartbreaking. I've never been so inspired in my life This is who Edwards is fighting for. These people NEED this man. Obama can't do it - doesn't have the balls. Clinton can't do it - she just doesn't care about these people. You all can bicker all you want about this that and the other, but right now I'm out here fighting for people with nothing and i'm fighting against huge odds to get a man into office who can change this country. Y'all might think i'm a bit crazy - but sometimes you need crazy people out there if you want to actually accomplish something.

 

John Edwards is the lefts answer to Mitt Romney, he completely transformed himself in an election cycle to try to get wins in two different elections.

[YASNY]

John Edwards is the lefts answer to Mitt Romney, he completely transformed himself in an election cycle to try to get wins in two different elections.

 

I'd really appreciate if you would elaborate on that ... regarding both candidates. Not intended as a challenge, but more of what is your thinking here.

[Balta1701]

I'd really appreciate if you would elaborate on that ... regarding both candidates. Not intended as a challenge, but more of what is your thinking here.

A lot of the better articles have disappeared from the Google or been hidden behind subscription archive walls, but the general consensus back in 04 was that Edwards was trying to run as the electable, centrist, southern Democrat, and that's why Kerry picked him, to try to balance out his northeastern liberalness. Exit polling in the primaries did suggest that in fact was the case in the voting; as the crossover voters, the independents/Republicans who showed up to vote in the contested Dem primary in states that allowed it, went stronger for Edwards than for Kerry, suggesting to me that Edwards did pull off something of a centrist argument then.

 

For one of the examples I was able to find:

If people support Kerry because they think he's electable, he goes up in the polls, which makes him look more electable. The best way to filter out this distortion is to focus on the voters least likely to make their decisions in November based on electability. These happen to be the same voters who hold the balance of power in most elections: independents, conservative Democrats, and moderate Republicans. They aren't principally trying to figure out which Democratic candidate can beat Bush, because they don't necessarily want the Democratic nominee to beat Bush. They're trying to decide which Democratic candidate, if any, would be a better president than Bush. ...

 

"By and large, the closer you move to the center and center-right of the electorate, where the presidential race will probably be decided, the worse Kerry does. The opposite is true of Edwards."

Guardian

A longer primary against a pro-defence centrist such as John Edwards would give Kerry a better chance to refine his platform. It would also give a much wider cross-section of Democratic voters another chance to revisit the whole idea of electability, in the light of America's political mainstream. It is probable that they would come up with the same answer - that Kerry's military and foreign relations experience, together with 19 years in the Senate, however flawed, trump Edwards' four years as a centrist and his trial lawyer past.

Edited January 8, 2008 by Balta1701

[YASNY]

A lot of the better articles have disappeared from the Google or been hidden behind subscription archive walls, but the general consensus back in 04 was that Edwards was trying to run as the electable, centrist, southern Democrat, and that's why Kerry picked him, to try to balance out his northeastern liberalness. Exit polling in the primaries did suggest that in fact was the case in the voting; as the crossover voters, the independents/Republicans who showed up to vote in the contested Dem primary in states that allowed it, went stronger for Edwards than for Kerry, suggesting to me that Edwards did pull off something of a centrist argument then.

 

For one of the examples I was able to find:

Guardian

 

Thank you Balta. Interesting. I'd still like to see Mike's line of thinking and also the Romney aspect of it.

[Balta1701]

By the way, I think it might be worth noting that Obama has taken several steps to be involved in trying to find a solution to the Kenyan election violence, despite the fact that he's been a bit busy over the last week or so.

[kapkomet]

Go sit on the can and read through this.

 

I'll read it later for sure. I will say that Obama at least has me interested in learning more about him, and that's more then I can say for any other candidate.

[BigSqwert]

 

I'll read it later for sure.

I won't guarantee that this will convince you to support him but I appreciate your effort in looking into him.

Edited January 8, 2008 by BigSqwert

[BigSqwert]

By the way, I think it might be worth noting that Obama has taken several steps to be involved in trying to find a solution to the Kenyan election violence, despite the fact that he's been a bit busy over the last week or so.

I have a feeling if Hillary were doing these sorts of things she'd be bragging about it. I find it classy that he isn't shoving it everyone's face.