DEM Primaries/Candidates thread

[Reddy]

Oh now come on, you're seriously buying into this whole "Obama is an evil Muslim who switched religions to run for office back in Kindergarten!" crap? My word.

 

 

by his own admission he was an atheist growing up and in college. he became a christian much later than kindergarten.

 

look, i don't give a s*** what religion he is. muslim or hindu or christian i dont care. my problem with it is when it's used for political gain.

Edited January 15, 2008 by Reddy

[Reddy]

So...he wasn't genuine or sincere before his wife had breat cancer?

 

i meant that something like that can change your views on the world.

[StrangeSox]

i meant that something like that can change your views on the world.

 

I don't see how your wife getting breast cancer would change your views on domestic economic policy, foreign policy, etc. Health care maybe, but I doubt Mrs. Edwards was chosing between medical treatment and eating that night.

Edited January 15, 2008 by StrangeSox

[mr_genius]

And i know there's no way i can prove this one, but Edwards does legitimately CARE and feel PASSIONATELY about this fight and helping those who have no voice.

 

Seeing how successful he was as a trial lawyer, I am sure he can convince certain people of just about anything.

[Reddy]

I don't see how your wife getting breast cancer would change your views on domestic economic policy, foreign policy, etc. Health care maybe, but I doubt Mrs. Edwards was chosing between medical treatment and eating that night.

 

right. that's his point. Elizabeth has the best coverage available. but he also realizes that this is not always the case. dude. when you're faced with the knowledge that the woman you love and have devoted your life to will DIE within a few years, i think it can have a profound effect on you. He realized that we only have a short time to truly make a difference in this world and that's why he's fighting for the people who weren't as fortunate as he was. He has now devoted his LIFE to fighting poverty. But man, he's done this his whole life. It's not like it STARTED w/ Elizabeth's diagnosis - that just brought everything into clearer focus.

[NorthSideSox72]

by his own admission he was an atheist growing up and in college. he became a christian much later than kindergarten.

 

look, i don't give a s*** what religion he is. muslim or hindu or christian i dont care. my problem with it is when it's used for political gain.

Political gain? I actually read one of Obama's books a couple months back, so I could learn a little more about the man. He was not really an atheist, first of all. He was more like what a lot of Americans are - people who take their beliefs from multiple religions and influences. He got further involved in the Christian church later in his life, but BEFORE his political career started.

 

[Reddy]

Seeing how successful he was as a trial lawyer, I am sure he can convince certain people of just about anything.

 

so tell me then, why did he start a poverty center in NC? why did he go down to New Orleans to help clean up?

[NorthSideSox72]

right. that's his point. Elizabeth has the best coverage available. but he also realizes that this is not always the case. dude. when you're faced with the knowledge that the woman you love and have devoted your life to will DIE within a few years, i think it can have a profound effect on you. He realized that we only have a short time to truly make a difference in this world and that's why he's fighting for the people who weren't as fortunate as he was. He has now devoted his LIFE to fighting poverty. But man, he's done this his whole life. It's not like it STARTED w/ Elizabeth's diagnosis - that just brought everything into clearer focus.

How is that different than Obama questioning and experimenting with his faith, then choosing to get involved in the church?

 

[mr_genius]

so tell me then, why did he start a poverty center in NC? why did he go down to New Orleans to help clean up?

 

Only he knows the real reasons why. I have a low opinion of the guy, so I think it's just an ego thing. He wants attention, puts on a big production of going to New Orleans to "help the cleanup", but his main interests are gaining more power and wealth for himself. But I could be wrong, he might be a great guy. I am just weary of a guy like him who is the self appointed voice of the poor, while many of his previous actions have shown him to be less than genuine.

[BigSqwert]

Obama became a Christian because he wanted to be a senator/president.

You just lost all credibility.

[mr_genius]

These attacks that the Clinton and Edwards campaigns have been trying on Obama are really out there. I really don't see how these things are a scandal in any sense.

[Reddy]

You just lost all credibility.

 

lol so you guys are allowed to question Edwards' motives but as soon as i question Obama's i lose all credibility. yeah ok.

[Reddy]

Only he knows the real reasons why. I have a low opinion of the guy, so I think it's just an ego thing. He wants attention, puts on a big production of going to New Orleans to "help the cleanup", but his main interests are gaining more power and wealth for himself. But I could be wrong, he might be a great guy. I am just weary of a guy like him who is the self appointed voice of the poor, while many of his previous actions have shown him to be less than genuine.

 

aside from the haircut and the house what are these actions?

 

why does a man who fights for the poor have to live as if he is? why is that a prerequisite?

[southsider2k5]

four years ago his wife wasn't diagnosed with breast cancer. that changes things my friend.

 

Are you telling me he wasn't sincere because something bad had not happened to his family yet??? What about all of those millrat stories from his family history? Or the stuff about fighting lobbyists and the like? None of that changed since his wife's illness. Sorry, I know you like the guy and all, but I don't respect politicians who undergo convient changes as their needs change. I don't care what side of the aisle they are on. Its the same reason I don't like Mitt Romney either.

[mr_genius]

aside from the haircut and the house what are these actions?

 

why does a man who fights for the poor have to live as if he is? why is that a prerequisite?

 

Well, for me personally... some guy that claims to only be out to help people but in the past took massive legal fees from people he was "just trying to help", demanded large sums of money to speak about "people he wanted to help", gets $400 dollar haircut and complains about 2 Americas, wants to go after corporations but is a hedge fund investor (he was actually invested in predatory lending) seems to be a fraud when he claims to be only in things to help.

 

I'm sure there's more, but the guy obviously isn't going to win so everyone is kind of ignoring him now.

[Reddy]

Are you telling me he wasn't sincere because something bad had not happened to his family yet??? What about all of those millrat stories from his family history? Or the stuff about fighting lobbyists and the like? None of that changed since his wife's illness. Sorry, I know you like the guy and all, but I don't respect politicians who undergo convient changes as their needs change. I don't care what side of the aisle they are on. Its the same reason I don't like Mitt Romney either.

 

first off:

 

His son, Wade, died at age 16. he's had to face and overcome enormous personal tragedy. And yes, his son's death DID set him on this path to run for the senate and really MAKE A DIFFERENCE in the world.

 

Then with his wife's situation, it puts it in even more perspective. John Edwards has NEVER undergone a "convenient change". He's undergone the same changes that affect every American in this country. The loss of loved ones changes people. The prospect of death changes people. Can you deny this? Both of these events in his life have led him to make the decision to take his fight for people who have no voice from NC to the national scale. If he were just saying what it took to win he'd be saying the things that Obama is about hope and optimism and bringing people together. That sells well. Unfortunately none of that is actually practical in a real world situation. Edwards knows this - knows it'll take a fight - and unfortunately he banked on the American people being intelligent enough to realize it too. Unfortunately, they just fell for the good speech.

[Reddy]

Well, for me personally... some guy that claims to only be out to help people but in the past took massive legal fees from people he was "just trying to help", demanded large sums of money to speak about "people he wanted to help", gets $400 dollar haircut and complains about 2 Americas, wants to go after corporations but is a hedge fund investor (he was actually invested in predatory lending) seems to be a fraud when he claims to be only in things to help.

 

I'm sure there's more, but the guy obviously isn't going to win so everyone is kind of ignoring him now.

 

- the fees were a portion of the winnings. and john edwards was good at winning. man, he really shouldn't have done that.

 

- now that he is no longer in the senate or a practicing lawyer, he's supposed to just speak for free? i know he's already rich but i imagine the idea of no income isn't too appealing.

 

- how much do you think Clinton spends on haircuts?

 

- he is no longer involved with fortress

[mr_genius]

- the fees were a portion of the winnings. and john edwards was good at winning. man, he really shouldn't have done that.

 

- now that he is no longer in the senate or a practicing lawyer, he's supposed to just speak for free? i know he's already rich but i imagine the idea of no income isn't too appealing.

 

- how much do you think Clinton spends on haircuts?

 

- he is no longer involved with fortress

 

Yes, he shouldn't charge large fees for talking about poverty or at least give the money to the poor. But you're right, he wants the money, so he keeps it. As far as his trial lawyer career, I doubt he was in it to merely help people (which is what he would lead people to believe) but to profit. And that is fine, but he needs to drop the altruistic sham. He only dropped his predatory investments once caught red handed.

[southsider2k5]

first off:

 

His son, Wade, died at age 16. he's had to face and overcome enormous personal tragedy. And yes, his son's death DID set him on this path to run for the senate and really MAKE A DIFFERENCE in the world.

 

Then with his wife's situation, it puts it in even more perspective. John Edwards has NEVER undergone a "convenient change". He's undergone the same changes that affect every American in this country. The loss of loved ones changes people. The prospect of death changes people. Can you deny this? Both of these events in his life have led him to make the decision to take his fight for people who have no voice from NC to the national scale. If he were just saying what it took to win he'd be saying the things that Obama is about hope and optimism and bringing people together. That sells well. Unfortunately none of that is actually practical in a real world situation. Edwards knows this - knows it'll take a fight - and unfortunately he banked on the American people being intelligent enough to realize it too. Unfortunately, they just fell for the good speech.

 

So I guess in 2004, we all fell for Edwards good speech? Maybe you don't see it, but I do. That whole centrist image he build before was BS, then again, maybe the "fighting for the man" image of 2008 is crap, its hard to say.

[NorthSideSox72]

So I've been reading articles to see what has actually been SAID in this supposed race issue between Clinton and Obama. And I've gotta say - I don't see where Obama has even brought up race. Its just not something he's said. And the more I look at it, the more clear it is that the Clinton camp has elected to try to use the african americans that are aligned with them to try to bait Obama into something. And the media focus on even the HINT of the issue has sort of worked for her - is put the issue out there. And while it seems clear to me its all Clinton camp B.S., I wonder how clear that will come through to the general public.

 

I really dislike Hillary Clinton.

 

[Balta1701]

The Web site of the Review Journal, the largest paper in Nevada, is reporting that it'll be endorsing Obama tomorrow, claiming he's the "most viable of the remaining candidates for the party."

Bloggity link

[HuskyCaucasian]

Obama looks kinda flat tonight in the debate

[BigSqwert]

Obama looks kinda flat tonight in the debate

I think he's been quite sharp.

[NorthSideSox72]

Obama looks kinda flat tonight in the debate

He sure started weakly - but he recovered nicely.

 

Clinton clearly was quickly and incompletely coached on the subject of foreign investments, because she just said a bunch of gibberish on the subject.

 

And... did I miss-hear, or did Hillary Clinton refer to Hispanics as "brown people"? Is that acceptable in the current environment? I'm actually not sure.

 

[Reddy]

i think Clinton asking Obama to co-sponser her bill was a BRILLIANT move. And Obama was put in an odd situation. He didn't say yes or no... we'll see how it gets spun.