DEM Primaries/Candidates thread

[southsider2k5]

Does it work the other way? Those that discount the good stuff and claim she had nothing to do with it, should those people then ignore the bad stuff and say it wasn't her?

 

Ask her, I am not the one playing the fence. Personally I don't think he was in on any of it, but that is just me.

[StrangeSox]

Anything that works gets copied and duplicated. It goes both ways. Coke watches Pepsi and Pepsi watches Coke for great ideas. They try and dress them up in new clothes, but it's all the same.

 

Not every campaign is taking this s***-slinging to the same level that Bush did in the past and now the Clintons are starting to do.

[NorthSideSox72]

Another gem from the debate:

 

Hillary attacks Obama for his "Present" votes and says you can never have an honest debate with him because he always has some explanation for why he voted the way he did. I didn't know it was a bad thing to get context instead of just looking at a voting record.

I believe she said that he "never takes responsibility" for his votes and actions. Again, the Rovian method of projection. Obama has been much more clear as to the reasons why he did or did not vote for the things he did, than Hillary has been.

 

[Texsox]

Ask her, I am not the one playing the fence. Personally I don't think he was in on any of it, but that is just me.

 

It seems her fans play the all the good and none of the bad. her detractors play all the bad and none of the good. Both are equally wrong in my book.

 

I prefer to ignore her husband's record and career, both the good and bad.

 

And we should be looking at the record much like we look at the Red Sheet at Arlington. How will this help us to predict how this person will act as President?

[HuskyCaucasian]

I believe she said that he "never takes responsibility" for his votes and actions. Again, the Rovian method of projection. Obama has been much more clear as to the reasons why he did or did not vote for the things he did, than Hillary has been.

Agreed. Sometimes you need to step back and research a statement made by a candidate. When she said that in the debate I immediately thought "wait a second, he always stands by his records and doesn't deflect. You are the one who brushes off the hard 'personal' question." And by personal I mean anything negative about her.

[Texsox]

Not every campaign is taking this s***-slinging to the same level that Bush did in the past and now the Clintons are starting to do.

 

True. And somewhere each campaign makes a careful analysis of how negative they can go. Some candidates can dish more s*** than others. Everything is carefully controlled, nothing is left to chance. Nothing is random, if they can help it.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Clinton's Pull Obama attack ad.

[HuskyCaucasian]

A GOP ace in the hole?

Beyond the melodrama of Sen. Hillary Clinton's tears-on-her-pillow triumph in New Hampshire and her gaming victory in Nevada lies the profoundly disturbing question of the Clintons' hidden record of suspected crimes.....

 

The bedeviling problem is that party leaders on both sides of the congressional aisle conspired two years ago to bury the telltale documents (of Clinton crimes). I'm referring to the 120 missing pages of the Barrett Report which, by all accounts from Washington insiders, former press secretary Tony Snow among them, contain sufficient evidence of Clinton misdeeds not only to furl Mrs. Clinton's presidential flag but quite possibly to send her and her miscreant husband straight to the courtroom dock. Yet the papers have lain moldering in some deep Capitol Hill tomb with no one daring to dig them up though they can be exhumed on demand by any member of Congress.

[NorthSideSox72]

So here are some fun facts about the Dem superdelegates to consider...

 

Back before the Iowa Caucus, Clinton held a 159-59 lead, almost a 3x margin, among pledged superdelegates.

 

As of today, the superdelegate count favors her by a 200-114 count. That means that, since Iowa, its been Obama 55, Clinton 41, among supers.

 

And there are, right now, still about 500 uncommitted superdelegates.

 

Just something to think about. The supers don't all appear to be ready to endorse Clinton. In fact, since things got underway in the primary/caucus season, its been Obama in the lead.

 

[Balta1701]

A GOP ace in the hole?

Dude, after all the invective that those people have thrown at the Clintons over the years, from accusing them of murder to extortion to the impeachment hearings, do you think that there's any serious thing they could throw at them that is even believable any more? Especially coming from the Washington Times?

[Texsox]

Dude, after all the invective that those people have thrown at the Clintons over the years, from accusing them of murder to extortion to the impeachment hearings, do you think that there's any serious thing they could throw at them that is even believable any more? Especially coming from the Washington Times?

It is pretty amazing.

[BigSqwert]

This person does a good job of summarizing my thoughts.

[HuskyCaucasian]

This person does a good job of summarizing my thoughts.

In the fairness department, it is my understanding that Bill has been working on poverty at least the last few years and he was fairly active after Katrina (remember those Clinton / Bush 41 things?)

[Texsox]

I just received an email from Obama's campaign and one line stood out. He talks about a former President campaigning for Hillary. I was thinking, knowing at least the public history between the Clintons and Carters if Jimmy Carter will be campaigning for Obama at some point. I also wonder if it would be of any help.

[HuskyCaucasian]

I just received an email from Obama's campaign and one line stood out. He talks about a former President campaigning for Hillary. I was thinking, knowing at least the public history between the Clintons and Carters if Jimmy Carter will be campaigning for Obama at some point. I also wonder if it would be of any help.

Here is the quote for those who didnt get that e-mail.

We expected that Bill Clinton would tout his record from the nineties and talk about Hillary's role in his past success. That's a fair approach and a challenge we are prepared to face.

 

What we didn't expect, at least not from our fellow Democrats, are the win-at-all-costs tactics we've seen recently. We didn't expect misleading accusations that willfully distort Barack's record.

 

i HIGHLY doubt Carter would campaign.

[Balta1701]

Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich is abandoning his second bid for the White House. In an interview with the Cleveland Plain Dealer, the congressman said he was quitting the race and would made a formal announcement Friday.

 

"I want to continue to serve in Congress," he told the newspaper.

 

Kucinich said he will not endorse another Democrat in the primary.

How about that.

[Balta1701]

Both the Obama and Clinton campaigns have agreed to pull their negative ads against each other in SC.

 

Bill Clinton himself is now going up on the air with a pro-Hillary ad in that state.

 

Obama's on Letterman for the top 10 list tonight.

Edited January 24, 2008 by Balta1701

[HuskyCaucasian]

Both the Obama and Clinton campaigns have agreed to pull their negative ads against each other in SC.

Good for both of them.

[Balta1701]

NY Times with the Hillary endorsement

[Balta1701]

In a situation eerily mirroring New Hampshire, pollsters are now finding a dramatically tightening race in South Carolina.

 

Candidate Mason-Dixon Clemson Univ.

Obama 38 27

Clinton 30 20

Edwards 19 17

Mason-Dixon/McClatchy/MSNBC poll, Jan. 22-23, 400 D LVs, +/- 5.0%

Clemson University Palmetto poll, Jan. 15-23, ~450 D LVs, MoE +/- 4.6%

[HuskyCaucasian]

NY Times with the Hillary endorsement

Ya know, I am starting to really believe newspaper endorsements are largely pointless. They might move the polls a few points, but largely dont matter. I would have said differently a few months ago, but now I really dont think they matter. Especially this one where hillary is far a head in NY. It's like if the Trib endorsed Obama when in the last poll he had 50% support in Illinois.

[NorthSideSox72]

In a situation eerily mirroring New Hampshire, pollsters are now finding a dramatically tightening race in South Carolina.

Dramatically tightening?

 

Here are the Obama leads in the polls conducted this weak, in time order, most recent first...

 

Obama +16 (685 LV)

Obama +8 (400 LV)

Obama +15 (811 LV)

Obama +7 (LV, number not disclosed)

Obama +15 (624 LV)

 

Notice a few things? For one, the average is a double digit lead. For another, the polls with the lowest totals are the ones with smaller numbers of respondants. And one of them, the Clemson +7, has numbers that are nowhere near the other polls for all 3 candidates, including a near-50% undecided number.

 

Basically, Obama has a huge lead. That Clemson poll looks like an outlier, given its 10-15 points off on each of the leading candidates from the other polls (unless of course they know something no one else does). And it also started its count on the 15th, instead of the 21st or 22nd like the others - it was mostly before the debate.

 

Just wanted to provide a broader picture than the two polls that happen to be best for Hillary (one of which needs a big BS sign on it).

 

[Balta1701]

Just wanted to provide a broader picture than the two polls that happen to be best for Hillary (one of which needs a big BS sign on it).

Dude, don't you realize I've watched too many damn elections in the past 8 years with high hopes for the results only to have my hopes dashed on virtually every single one other than last year's congressional election and Iowa? At this point, if I wasn't being overly pessimistic, i'd be setting myself up for a nervous breakdown. Stop trying to give me hope, I'd rather be pleasantly surprised.

[NorthSideSox72]

Dude, don't you realize I've watched too many damn elections in the past 8 years with high hopes for the results only to have my hopes dashed on virtually every single one other than last year's congressional election and Iowa? At this point, if I wasn't being overly pessimistic, i'd be setting myself up for a nervous breakdown. Stop trying to give me hope, I'd rather be pleasantly surprised.

I knew it!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I was totally going to post something about you seeming to WANT Obama to lose. Then I thought, ya know, he's probably just trying to keep his expectations low.

 

Don't worry, Obama is still a long shot.

 

[Balta1701]

I knew it!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I was totally going to post something about you seeming to WANT Obama to lose. Then I thought, ya know, he's probably just trying to keep his expectations low.

 

Don't worry, Obama is still a long shot.

I really wish he wouldn't lose. But after N.H., I just can't see Clinton being beaten. And it pisses me off.