StrangeSox Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 QUOTE(kapkomet @ Jan 24, 2008 -> 10:59 AM) And they both f'ing suck. What an AWFUL election for true "get the government the hell out of my life" conservatives. Huckabee wasn't any better. He was socially conservative and fiscally liberal. That's about as government-invasive as you can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 QUOTE(kapkomet @ Jan 24, 2008 -> 10:59 AM) And they both f'ing suck. What an AWFUL election for true "get the government the hell out of my life" conservatives. McCain I at least have some respect for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jan 24, 2008 -> 10:12 AM) McCain I at least have some respect for... And I'm the exact opposite. I at least feel some respect for Romney in that I think he did a decent job as governor up in MA and his record shows that, while I have essentially lost all respect I used to have for McCain in how amazingly pandering he's been over the last 7 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jan 24, 2008 -> 12:12 PM) McCain I at least have some respect for... He's an easy guy to respect. Much more loyal to his party than most people would be. I just hope he's more than a Bob Dole kind of candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 24, 2008 -> 12:13 PM) And I'm the exact opposite. I at least feel some respect for Romney in that I think he did a decent job as governor up in MA and his record shows that, while I have essentially lost all respect I used to have for McCain in how amazingly pandering he's been over the last 7 years. Romney's core beliefs have completely changed since he was Gov. I hate that. That isn't realistic. That is pandering to the extreme as far as I am concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 QUOTE(Texsox @ Jan 24, 2008 -> 10:14 AM) He's an easy guy to respect. Much more loyal to his party than most people would be. I just hope he's more than a Bob Dole kind of candidate. Um, am I the only one who remembers all the talk of him considering flipping parties in the early part of this decade, or the talk of him being Kerry's VP candidate, or all the campaign events he's doing with Lieberman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jan 24, 2008 -> 10:23 AM) Romney's core beliefs have completely changed since he was Gov. I hate that. That isn't realistic. That is pandering to the extreme as far as I am concerned. And in 2004, McCain was saying that it was a mistake to extend the tax cuts that he refused to vote for and now supports. And McCain was for all those campaign finance provisions until he was running for office and needed to ignore them. And McCain was strongly opposed to the influence that Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson had on the party until he needed that wing of the party's support and was off giving the commencement address at liberty university and praising those folks. And McCain is giving you straight talk about how those jobs aren't coming back to Michigan, the day before he promises to help bring jobs back to Michigan. The remarkable thing is not that he's changed positions all over, I'm sure you could come up with a list like that for every politician. The remarkable thing is that the media narrative of him being a straight talker has become so ingrained that even when he flip-flops from one day to another, he doesn't get called on it, while the media doesn't like Romney so he gets called on every one. The only thing McCain hasn't had his core beliefs change on is the use of the military, which, while consistent, are pretty much as silly as GW's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 24, 2008 -> 12:24 PM) Um, am I the only one who remembers all the talk of him considering flipping parties in the early part of this decade, or the talk of him being Kerry's VP candidate, or all the campaign events he's doing with Lieberman? IIRC he always said he would not be interested in asked. And he showed some loyalty to Lieberman, I don't see a problem with that, in fact I always admired him for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jan 24, 2008 -> 12:23 PM) Romney's core beliefs have completely changed since he was Gov. I hate that. That isn't realistic. That is pandering to the extreme as far as I am concerned. Romney is a much worse option than McCain IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 QUOTE(mr_genius @ Jan 24, 2008 -> 12:40 PM) Romney is a much worse option than McCain IMO. That makes them both sound like bad options. I think they are both pretty good options, with McCain being the better one of the two. I think we agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 QUOTE(Texsox @ Jan 24, 2008 -> 01:49 PM) That makes them both sound like bad options. I think they are both pretty good options, with McCain being the better one of the two. I think we agree. McCain is a pretty good option. Look at what each of he and Romney have "flip-flopped" on. McCain has stuck to the same core beliefs and priorities, as far as I can tell. When he does get criticized, its for the debacle of campaign finance reform, or other issues where his legislation when awry - because he had to compromise to get it through. Romney on the other hand has, as others have said, changed his stated beliefs dramatically on a wide variety of issues. And I actually have a lot of respect for a politician who doesn't just follow the party line all the time. McCain's stances sometimes put him with the Dems, Richardson's put him with the GOP on occasion. That is not at all a bad thing to me. So I fail to see the problem with considering changing parties. Its their stances on the issues, and their overall beliefs and priorities, that are important. Dem or GOP is just a label. I have far more respect for McCain than I do Romney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 And if you don't believe my contentions about Romney being a far superior President...I submit this video as proof. Best response I've read on a blog went something like this: "Can't you just picture Romney's Brain, a-la Homer Simpson's, telling him, 'Come on, say something street, say something to fit in', his mouth producing that line, and then his brain responding with 'That's it I'm out of here'...walking away and then shutting the door on its way out." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 QUOTE(Texsox @ Jan 24, 2008 -> 12:49 PM) That makes them both sound like bad options. I think they are both pretty good options, with McCain being the better one of the two. I think we agree. I like McCain, he's not a 'hard core' conservative, but thats not a bad thing for me as a voter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 25, 2008 -> 05:28 AM) And in 2004, McCain was saying that it was a mistake to extend the tax cuts that he refused to vote for and now supports. And McCain was for all those campaign finance provisions until he was running for office and needed to ignore them. And McCain was strongly opposed to the influence that Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson had on the party until he needed that wing of the party's support and was off giving the commencement address at liberty university and praising those folks. And McCain is giving you straight talk about how those jobs aren't coming back to Michigan, the day before he promises to help bring jobs back to Michigan. The remarkable thing is not that he's changed positions all over, I'm sure you could come up with a list like that for every politician. The remarkable thing is that the media narrative of him being a straight talker has become so ingrained that even when he flip-flops from one day to another, he doesn't get called on it, while the media doesn't like Romney so he gets called on every one. The only thing McCain hasn't had his core beliefs change on is the use of the military, which, while consistent, are pretty much as silly as GW's. Personally, I'd look at Romney's record as governor and the job he did rescuing the Salt Lake City Olympics from huge financial losses. I think he's got excellent credibility as an economic manager, and with the current state of the American Economy, that's pretty important. Unfortunately because he's a Mormon and he's getting attacked in the media for flip - flopping (even though you make a good argument for McCain doing the same thing), it's going to be hard for him to beat McCain IMHO. McCain's a lot more the "conservative" candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Im liking McCain more than Romney because of what they said here in Michigan. Romney seemed kinda sleezy by saying that he would keep the automakers jobs here, and do everything he could to prevent the loss of those jobs. Not a bad message, just that its a bunch of false promises, the industry is going down bigtime, and there is little to do about it. I like McCain's honesty in coming out and saying that those jobs are going away, whether we liked it or not, and Michigan has a good oppurtunity to retrain itself and expand its economic possibilities. Of course the voters went with the guy that said tehy wouldnt have to retrain themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 NY Times with the half-hearted McCain endorsment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 24, 2008 -> 08:52 PM) NY Times with the half-hearted McCain endorsment And that says it all, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 QUOTE(kapkomet @ Jan 24, 2008 -> 10:14 PM) And that says it all, doesn't it? Who else could they have endorsed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jan 25, 2008 -> 07:58 AM) Who else could they have endorsed? Oh, I realize that... but he's the most like them, and it really shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 28, 2008 Author Share Posted January 28, 2008 While the Dems start their SDOGPEIT run, the GOP is in Florida for their Tuesday primary. Latest polls show McCain and Romney in a dead heat, with Giuliani fading fast. So let's discuss the candidates and what Florida means for them... --McCain is currently leading the polls in a lot of the key SDOGPEIT states. If he wins Florida, I think he's not only the front-runner, but he's also going to be really hard to beat. --If Romney wins Florida, especially since he's already in the lead in delegates and would get that nice media boost, I think he's got a slight edge on McCain. But since McCain leads many other key states, Romney would need to take that FL victory and do something with it. If he can't win Florida, I think he's going to become the 2nd place guy, unless Huckabee or Giuliani drop out and endorse him (which is possible). --Giuliani, unless he pulls a major upset victory in FL, is done. --Huckabee is, I think, already done - barring some major shifts among the candidates ahead of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I think you are correct. It's old versus new. Owed a chance versus not owed anything. I still like McCain's chances, the more people see him, the more they will like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 QUOTE(Texsox @ Jan 28, 2008 -> 11:06 AM) I think you are correct. It's old versus new. Owed a chance versus not owed anything. I still like McCain's chances, the more people see him, the more they will like. I think it is more like the more they see of the other candidates, the more they realize that McCain isn't that bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jan 28, 2008 -> 12:00 PM) I think it is more like the more they see of the other candidates, the more they realize that McCain isn't that bad... Perhaps. I'd like to think more of the next POTUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 8 polls of Florida were released today. In this average, Romney comes out with about a 2 point lead, although McCain appears to have some momentum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 A bruising fight between McCain and Romney could lead to a Huckabee kingmaker situation here. If Huckabee does well enough in the south, and with evangelicals, there's a very real possibility of a brokered convention happening here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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