GOP Primaries/Candidates thread

[mr_genius]

In my previous rejoinder, I obviously did not mean Lugar and Obama personally were securing weapons. Their legislation (Lugar-Obama) has effectively done that.

 

Isn't that legislation basically an extension of Lugar-Nunn with Obamas name on it?

[southsider2k5]

Interesting constitutional question... Is McCain technically able to be the President?

 

 

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/28/america/28mccain.php

 

McCain's birthplace prompts queries about whether that rules him out

By Carl Hulse

 

WASHINGTON: The question has nagged at the parents of Americans born outside the continental United States for generations: Dare their children aspire to grow up and become president? In the case of Senator John McCain of Arizona, the issue is becoming more than a matter of parental daydreaming.

 

McCain's likely nomination as the Republican candidate for president and the happenstance of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936 are reviving a musty debate that has surfaced periodically since the founders first set quill to parchment and declared that only a "natural-born citizen" can hold the nation's highest office.

 

Almost since those words were written in 1787 with scant explanation, their precise meaning has been the stuff of confusion, law school review articles, whisper campaigns and civics class debates over whether only those delivered on American soil can be truly natural born. To date, no American to take the presidential oath has had an official birthplace outside the 50 states.

 

"There are powerful arguments that Senator McCain or anyone else in this position is constitutionally qualified, but there is certainly no precedent," said Sarah Duggin, an associate professor of law at Catholic University who has studied the issue extensively. "It is not a slam-dunk situation."

 

McCain was born on a military installation in the Canal Zone, where his mother and father, a navy officer, were stationed. His campaign advisers say they are comfortable that McCain meets the requirement and note that the question was researched for his first presidential bid in 1999 and reviewed again this time around.

 

But given mounting interest, the campaign recently asked Theodore Olson, a former solicitor general now advising McCain, to prepare a detailed legal analysis. "I don't have much doubt about it," said Olson, who added, though, that he still needed to finish his research.

 

Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina and one of McCain's closest allies, said it would be incomprehensible to him if the son of a military member born in a military station could not run for president.

 

"He was posted there on orders from the United States government," Graham said of McCain's father. "If that becomes a problem, we need to tell every military family that your kid can't be president if they take an overseas assignment."

 

The phrase "natural born" was in early drafts of the Constitution. Scholars say notes of the Constitutional Convention give away little of the intent of the framers. Its origin may be traced to a letter from John Jay to George Washington, with Jay suggesting that to prevent foreigners from becoming commander in chief, the Constitution needed to "declare expressly" that only a natural-born citizen could be president.

 

Duggin and others who have explored the arcane subject in depth say legal argument and basic fairness may indeed be on the side of McCain, a longtime member of Congress from Arizona. But multiple experts and scholarly reviews say the issue has never been definitively resolved by either Congress or the Supreme Court.

 

Duggin favors a constitutional amendment to settle the matter. Others have called on Congress to guarantee that Americans born outside the national boundaries can legitimately see themselves as potential contenders for the Oval Office.

 

"They ought to have the same rights," said Don Nickles, a former Republican senator from Oklahoma who in 2004 introduced legislation that would have established that children born abroad to American citizens could harbor presidential ambitions without a legal cloud over their hopes. "There is some ambiguity because there has never been a court case on what 'natural-born citizen' means."

 

McCain's situation is different from those of the current governors of California and Michigan, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jennifer Granholm, who were born in other countries and were first citizens of those nations, rendering them naturalized Americans ineligible under current interpretations. The conflict that could conceivably ensnare McCain goes more to the interpretation of "natural born" when weighed against intent and decades of immigration law.

 

McCain is not the first person to find himself in these circumstances. The last Arizona Republican to be a presidential nominee, Barry Goldwater, faced the issue. He was born in the Arizona territory in 1909, three years before it became a state. But Goldwater did not win, and the view at the time was that since he was born in a continental territory that later became a state, he probably met the standard.

 

It also surfaced in the 1968 candidacy of George Romney, who was born in Mexico, but again was not tested. The former Connecticut politician Lowell Weicker Jr., born in Paris, sought a legal analysis when considering the presidency, an aide said, and was assured he was eligible. Franklin D. Roosevelt Jr. was once viewed as a potential successor to his father, but was seen by some as ineligible since he had been born on Campobello Island in Canada. The 21st president, Chester Arthur, whose birthplace is Vermont, was rumored to have actually been born in Canada, prompting some to question his eligibility.

 

Quickly recognizing confusion over the evolving nature of citizenship, the First Congress in 1790 passed a measure that did define children of citizens "born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States to be natural born." But that law is still seen as potentially unconstitutional and was overtaken by subsequent legislation that omitted the "natural-born" phrase.

 

McCain's citizenship was established by statutes covering the offspring of Americans abroad and laws specific to the Canal Zone as Congress realized that Americans would be living and working in the area for extended periods. But whether he qualifies as natural-born has been a topic of Internet buzz for months, with some declaring him ineligible while others assert that he meets all the basic constitutional qualifications — a natural-born citizen at least 35 years of age with 14 years of residence.

 

"I don't think he has any problem whatsoever," said Nickles, a McCain supporter. "But I wouldn't be a bit surprised if somebody is going to try to make an issue out of it. If it goes to court, I think he will win."

 

Lawyers who have examined the topic say there is not just confusion about the provision itself, but uncertainty about who would have the legal standing to challenge a candidate on such grounds, what form a challenge could take and whether it would have to wait until after the election or could be made at any time.

 

In a paper written 20 years ago for the Yale Law Journal on the natural-born enigma, Jill Pryor, now a lawyer in Atlanta, said that any legal challenge to a presidential candidate born outside national boundaries would be "unpredictable and unsatisfactory."

 

"If I were on the Supreme Court, I would decide for John McCain," Pryor said in a recent interview. "But it is certainly not a frivolous issue."

[NorthSideSox72]

Any competent court would find him eligible, I'd bet big money on it. He was assigned overseas by the US military, and working in American territory, born to US citizen parents. The Constitutional phrase is sufficiently vague that he'd fit in there just fine.

 

[Balta1701]

Any competent court would find him eligible, I'd bet big money on it. He was assigned overseas by the US military, and working in American territory, born to US citizen parents. The Constitutional phrase is sufficiently vague that he'd fit in there just fine.

Honestly though, it probably wouldn't be a bad thing to get an actual court ruling on that subject just so that there is an interpretation out there for the future.

[Rex Kickass]

The first congress defined "Natural Born American" as being born to American parents in 1790 I believe. Being born on American territory and any military or diplomatic outpost is considered sovereign territory would be considered America in the eyes of international law. This is a BS thing.

[StrangeSox]

The first congress defined "Natural Born American" as being born to American parents in 1790 I believe. Being born on American territory and any military or diplomatic outpost is considered sovereign territory would be considered America in the eyes of international law. This is a BS thing.

 

What about a person born to American parents in a foreign hospital? I'm pretty sure they count as natural born citizens as well.

[Rex Kickass]

What about a person born to American parents in a foreign hospital? I'm pretty sure they count as natural born citizens as well.

 

It's my understanding that according to the definition provided by the First Congress of 1790, that would be natural born. However, that is a bit trickier of an issue.

[southsider2k5]

And falling under "two can play at that game..." Obama could be disqualified based on how you read that same law that would disqualify McCain. How stupid.

 

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/pos...mRlMDYyMWVlYjI=

 

oes the Times Really Want to Open This Can of Worms?

 

Some readers note that according to a literal reading of the Kenyan Constitution, Barack Obama is technically a Kenyan citizen. Kenya achieved independence from Britain on December 12, 1963; under the

 

87*. Persons who became citizens on 12th December, 1963

 

1. Every person who, having been born in Kenya, is on llth December. 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963:

 

Provided that a person shall not become a citizen of Kenya by virtue of this subsection if neither of his parents was born in Kenya.

2. Every person who, having been born outside Kenya. is on llth December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall. if his father becomes. or would but for his death have become, a citizen of Kenya by virtue of subsection (1). become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December. 1963.

 

Some would argue that by virtue of having a Kenyan citizen as his father, Obama "became" a Kenyan citizen back in 1963, even though he was in Hawaii at the time and did not visit the country until much later in his life. Others would argue that that would only apply to those born in the UK or its colonies (and I have no idea whether the United States qualifies as a UK colony under Kenyan law).

 

Of course, Barack Obama has never claimed to be a Kenyan citizen, nor has he, to the best of anyone's knowledge, ever claimed dual citizenship.

 

Having said that, a serious effort to argue that McCain is disqualified from being president will attempt to establish that a child of one American and one foreign-born parent is eligible for the presidency, but a child of two Americans, one a serving member of the U.S. Armed Forces, born in a U.S. territory (Coco Solo Air Base in the then-American-controlled Panama Canal Zone) is not.

 

Dear Democrats, please go down this road; Team McCain would like to ensure that their candidate's share of the military and veteran vote goes from 90 percent to 100 percent.

[StrangeSox]

And falling under "two can play at that game..." Obama could be disqualified based on how you read that same law that would disqualify McCain. How stupid.

 

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/pos...mRlMDYyMWVlYjI=

 

 

That's not true, and I'm not sure why the author asserts that. At best, Obama would have dual citizenship, but he was still born to an American in America, making him a natural born citizen.

[kapkomet]

And falling under "two can play at that game..." Obama could be disqualified based on how you read that same law that would disqualify McCain. How stupid.

 

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/pos...mRlMDYyMWVlYjI=

That's just stupid. Both sides needs to lay off the "technical" s***... they are citizens, leave it alone.

[Balta1701]

That's just stupid. Both sides needs to lay off the "technical" s***... they are citizens, leave it alone.

Which is why I said we could probably use a court order reaffirming that.

[Wise Master Buehrle]

Vote Ron Paul!

 

 

[EvilMonkey]

Vote Ron Paul!

Well, at least it was queit for a while.

[Balta1701]

Basically all after Florida, after becoming the presumptive nominee, John McCain raised $12 million in Feb. according to CNN. That's basically 1/3 of Hillary's take and rumor has it less than 1/4 of Obama's.

[Balta1701]

Senator Claire McCaskill, D-MO, who has endorsed Sen. Obama in the campaign, has introduced a bill to the Senate that would define "Natural Born Citizens" as written in the constitution to include any person born to any citizen of the United States while serving in the active or reserve components of the United States Armed Forces.

 

Senator Obama is now co-sponsoring the bill.

[southsider2k5]

Senator Claire McCaskill, D-MO, who has endorsed Sen. Obama in the campaign, has introduced a bill to the Senate that would define "Natural Born Citizens" as written in the constitution to include any person born to any citizen of the United States while serving in the active or reserve components of the United States Armed Forces.

 

Senator Obama is now co-sponsoring the bill.

 

That is classy.

[kapkomet]

Senator Claire McCaskill, D-MO, who has endorsed Sen. Obama in the campaign, has introduced a bill to the Senate that would define "Natural Born Citizens" as written in the constitution to include any person born to any citizen of the United States while serving in the active or reserve components of the United States Armed Forces.

 

Senator Obama is now co-sponsoring the bill.

Nice job, by both.

[southsider2k5]

Nice job, by both.

 

Especially since Obama's competition is suing everyone in sight to make things easier for her, instead of harder...

[Rex Kickass]

That's classic Senate collegiality.

[mr_genius]

Prediction of the day:

 

Even after McCain gets 1191 delegates, Huckabee stays in the race.

[WilliamTell]

Prediction of the day:

 

Even after McCain gets 1191 delegates, Huckabee stays in the race.

 

hey why not, he's been in it this long, might as well stay in, same with Ron Paul, haha.

[kapkomet]

Prediction of the day:

 

Even after McCain gets 1191 delegates, Huckabee stays in the race.

Huckabee is hoping for an overthrow of McCain. I'm serious.

[southsider2k5]

Huckabee is hoping for an overthrow of McCain. I'm serious.

 

I really thought he and Romney would come up with something... I was kinda shocked he didn't. I think the only reason Huckster is still in the race is he wants McCain to buy him off with the VP nom.

[Rex Kickass]

I think Romney considered it and that's why he waited a week or so, if the conservative base started to coalesce around Huck, that's where the endorsement would have gone.

[NorthSideSox72]

CNN now projecting that John McCain will clinch/win the GOP nomination tonight.