GOP Primaries/Candidates thread

[kapkomet]

I agree with you 100%. I was responding to the idea that this was the "same old crowd", which it really isn't.

 

The fact that both fields are so big still, is making it difficult for messages to get through. And the ones we DO get are the top 2 or 3 in each party, because the media gets lazy. What would be great is if both parties' leadership would go in about find a way to get their fields narrowed - like down to maybe 5 in each party. Some of these candidates could be talked down with promises of contingent future government positions, etc. These debates would be a lot more interesting with 5 instead of 10.

 

Or, even better but not in the vicinity of realistic... we go to 100% public funding of campaigning, AND the press gets in the habit of trying to balance coverage of all the candidates regardless of pedigree.

Yes, it is, as far as idealogy, and that is what I meant.

[kapkomet]

Yes I know. And I am in agreement. I was responding to a specific point about them being the same, when they are not. But because I agree with your point here, you will see I also discussed each candidate's unique characteristics as a candidate - political background, style, etc.

 

Regardless of race or gender, this is the most diverse field I can ever remember seeing... governors, senators, house reps, mayors, actors and talking heads... people from all over the spectrum on both sides of the aisle (though no true middle-of-the-road candidate)... people from all over the country... people of different generations. There really is a huge variety.

Again, who gives a s***? They are all cut from the same political cloth, and that is what I mean when I say we don't have real choices.

[NorthSideSox72]

Yes, it is, as far as idealogy, and that is what I meant.

 

Again, who gives a s***? They are all cut from the same political cloth, and that is what I mean when I say we don't have real choices.

Look. This is a semantic argument, so I'll try one more time and then give up. I was illustrating in my post that this crowd is NOT the same old people we see every time. I pointed out religion/race/gender, but ALSO pointed out differences in approach, background and stances. I am not saying these are all great candidates - I am saying that for the first time in my memory, the crowd has gotten more political diverse and more broad in spectrum of background, instead of the previous trend of being more and more tired and plastic. You apparently both disagree.

 

I think what this comes down to is, we're all disillusioned with the candidates we see for high offices. I'm right with you. But when the negative trend abates, even temporarily or slightly, I think its important to recognize that and grasp onto it. If you just look at it as slightly less but still evil (which it is), and let that dominate your view, then no progress can be made. Its like rewarding a child for going from a C- to a C. Yeah, still not what you want, but if you don't reinforce that, you can forget about B's or A's.

 

[Balta1701]

I love this guy.

Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney on Wednesday defended his five sons' decision not to enlist in the military, saying they're showing their support for the country by "helping me get elected."

 

Romney, who did not serve in Vietnam due to his Mormon missionary work and a high draft lottery number, was asked the question by an anti-war activist after a speech in which he called for "a surge of support" for U.S. forces in Iraq.

 

Romney, the former Massachusetts governor, also saluted a uniformed soldier in the crowd and called for donations to military support organizations. Last week, he donated $25,000 to seven such organizations.

 

"The good news is that we have a volunteer Army and that's the way we're going to keep it," Romney told some 200 people gathered in an abbey near the Mississippi River that had been converted into a hotel. "My sons are all adults and they've made decisions about their careers and they've chosen not to serve in the military and active duty and I respect their decision in that regard."

 

He added: "One of the ways my sons are showing support for our nation is helping me get elected because they think I'd be a great president."

 

Romney's five sons range in age from 37 to 26 and have worked as real estate developers, sports marketers and advertising executives. They are now actively campaigning for their father and have a "Five Brothers" blog on Romney's campaign Web site.

 

Romney noted that his middle son, 36-year-old Josh, was completing a recreational vehicle tour of all 99 Iowa counties on Wednesday and said, "I respect that and respect all those and the way they serve this great country."

[kapkomet]

Look. This is a semantic argument, so I'll try one more time and then give up. I was illustrating in my post that this crowd is NOT the same old people we see every time. I pointed out religion/race/gender, but ALSO pointed out differences in approach, background and stances. I am not saying these are all great candidates - I am saying that for the first time in my memory, the crowd has gotten more political diverse and more broad in spectrum of background, instead of the previous trend of being more and more tired and plastic. You apparently both disagree.

 

I think what this comes down to is, we're all disillusioned with the candidates we see for high offices. I'm right with you. But when the negative trend abates, even temporarily or slightly, I think its important to recognize that and grasp onto it. If you just look at it as slightly less but still evil (which it is), and let that dominate your view, then no progress can be made. Its like rewarding a child for going from a C- to a C. Yeah, still not what you want, but if you don't reinforce that, you can forget about B's or A's.

That's where we diverge. It's indeed more demographically different, but it's certainly not much different in terms of idealogy. I'm actually not trying to pick an argument, I'm just trying to say that the ideas out there are no different, other then the times which we live. The stuff from 2006 is the same crap we're talking about in the 2008 election cycle, because none of these nitwits will actually have anything to do if they didn't cry about all of the "problems" they will always need to take care of.

 

I don't know if that makes sense or not.

[southsider2k5]

I don't know where to put this, so I will throw this out here.... Anyone notice the similarities between the unions and the religious right? Both are far wings of their party who are by far the most vocal and work the hardest to get the vote out. They seem to be the most out of touch with the rest of the moderates in their parties in many of their views, yet the politicians know they have to pander to them, or they don't have a chance at getting re-elected.

[NorthSideSox72]

That's where we diverge. It's indeed more demographically different, but it's certainly not much different in terms of idealogy. I'm actually not trying to pick an argument, I'm just trying to say that the ideas out there are no different, other then the times which we live. The stuff from 2006 is the same crap we're talking about in the 2008 election cycle, because none of these nitwits will actually have anything to do if they didn't cry about all of the "problems" they will always need to take care of.

 

I don't know if that makes sense or not.

I think we just don't see things the same way on this one.

 

I think I am just as frustrated as you. But for me, I am not so frustrated with the pool of candidates... I am frustrated with the poll-answering public who choose Clinton and Giuliani out of those pools. I mean, in both cases, they seem to me to be the worst possible candidates. I think there are multiple candidates in both parties that, while I don't agree with their every stance, I think bring a lot to the table. But instead, we get the money machines, and we get the sellouts coming in first because they can buy their way into our hearts and minds.

 

As much as I dislike the idea of putting most things 100% publically funded... I think campaigns really have to be, if we are to have a worthwhile system. When some candidates can somehow raise $30M a quarter, despite the supposed $2000 limit per person (or whatever it is), there is clearly something else going on here. If that limit were really, truly enforced, and companies had the same limitations, I think we'd all be far better off.

 

[Balta1701]

John McCain

 

Being beaten in Iowa polls

 

Amongst only Iowa Republicans likely to go to the Caucuses...

 

By Barack Obama.

Edited August 9, 2007 by Balta1701

[Rex Kickass]

McCain isn't the only Republican beaten in that poll by Obama. BTW: He's also being beaten by Hillary among Iowa GOP. Link

 

President Poll - GOP leaning voters only.

 

1. Dunno 34.8

2. Romney 21.8

3. Guiliani 10.0

4. Obama 6.7

5. Thompson 5.2

6. Other 2.4

6. Paul 2.4

6. Huckabee 2.4

9. Tommy Thompson 2.1

9. Hillary 2.1

10. McCain 1.8

10. Richardson 1.8

 

Dem leaning voters only.

1. Hillary 30.0

2. Dunno 22.7

3. Obama 20.4

4. Edwards 16.1

5. Richardson 5.5

6. Other 2.8

(No one else polled at 1.0 percent or better)

 

[Balta1701]

ABC News' Jan Simmonds Reports: In Ohio on Thursday, Republican presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani R-NY handed his critics new ammunition regarding his role surrounding 9/11.

 

Speaking to reporters in Cincinnati, Giuliani said: "I was at ground zero as often, if not more, than most of the workers. ... I was there working with them. I was exposed to exactly the same things they were exposed to. So in that sense, I'm one of them."

 

Michael Palladino, head of the Detectives Endowment Association, the union of NYPD detectives, told the Associated Press that the mayor's record can't compare to those who spent 12 months sifting through toxic debris for evidence and human remains.

 

"As a result of their hard work, many are sick and injured. The mayor, although he did a fine job with 9/11, I don't think he rises to the level of being an equal with those men and women who were involved in the rescue, recovery and cleanup," Palladino said.

Link

[spiderman]

I love this guy.

 

This arguement is ridiculous. The army is a volunteer army, and if they are concerned that the President, whoever it may be, is going to be a Hawk, then don't join the army. Once you do, they own you, and they should get the full support of our country. If Mitt Romney wants to increase the size of the military, great. Again, it's a volunteer army, and if the citizens buy what his administation is selling, I don't see the problem.

[Balta1701]

This arguement is ridiculous. The army is a volunteer army, and if they are concerned that the President, whoever it may be, is going to be a Hawk, then don't join the army. Once you do, they own you, and they should get the full support of our country. If Mitt Romney wants to increase the size of the military, great. Again, it's a volunteer army, and if the citizens buy what his administation is selling, I don't see the problem.

Fine.

 

Just don't suggest that traveling around in a Winnebago in Iowa campaigning in a Presidential race is comparable to military service.

 

Romney saying "They are adults and it is their choice whether they choose to serve or not" is a gigantic leap above "they're serving America by working on my campaign and that's kinda like being in the military because I'm such a moron"

[spiderman]

Fine.

 

Just don't suggest that traveling around in a Winnebago in Iowa campaigning in a Presidential race is comparable to military service.

 

Romney saying "They are adults and it is their choice whether they choose to serve or not" is a gigantic leap above "they're serving America by working on my campaign and that's kinda like being in the military because I'm such a moron"

 

I agree. Romney should have just smiled to the question, and said nicely that "this is a volunteer army, we don't strongarm people to get in, or force family members to because their father is running for office...again a volunteer army so learn that word, and maybe we can have further conversations."

 

Where Romney obviously messed up was making that comparision. It was stupid and idiotic.

 

So, in conclusion, I am not voting for Romney - I think he's a snake who can't be trusted. I think some people need to understand that we have a volunteer army, and when Romney is answering these questions, just focus on that because that's all that needs to be said.

[NorthSideSox72]

For those unaware, today is the Iowa Straw Poll for the GOP. Romney has pushed hard in Iowa, Giuliani and McCain have laid back a bit. The others are trying to make a name for themselves. We'll see how it turns out - the Coliseum in Ames, Iowa, will be the focus of national attention today.

 

Too bad Iowa State's basketball team hasn't been able to achieve the same thing in that building for some years now (waits to be verbally assaulted by Heads).

 

[CrimsonWeltall]

McCain isn't the only Republican beaten in that poll by Obama. BTW: He's also being beaten by Hillary among Iowa GOP. Link

 

President Poll - GOP leaning voters only.

 

1. Dunno 34.8

2. Romney 21.8

3. Guiliani 10.0

4. Obama 6.7

5. Thompson 5.2

6. Other 2.4

6. Paul 2.4

6. Huckabee 2.4

9. Tommy Thompson 2.1

9. Hillary 2.1

10. McCain 1.8

10. Richardson 1.8

 

Dem leaning voters only.

1. Hillary 30.0

2. Dunno 22.7

3. Obama 20.4

4. Edwards 16.1

5. Richardson 5.5

6. Other 2.8

(No one else polled at 1.0 percent or better)

 

Who is Dunno and where can I learn more about his positions on the issues?

[sox4lifeinPA]

Who is Dunno and where can I learn more about his positions on the issues?

 

of course it's a guy....friggin' sexist.

[CrimsonWeltall]

well there's no way a woman would be at the top of the gop poll

 

mmmmmmmm

[sox4lifeinPA]

well there's no way a woman would be on top of the gop poll

 

I think they call that the "cowgirl"....

 

 

wait, did I read that wrong?

 

 

 

[spiderman]

For those unaware, today is the Iowa Straw Poll for the GOP. Romney has pushed hard in Iowa, Giuliani and McCain have laid back a bit. The others are trying to make a name for themselves. We'll see how it turns out - the Coliseum in Ames, Iowa, will be the focus of national attention today.

 

Too bad Iowa State's basketball team hasn't been able to achieve the same thing in that building for some years now (waits to be verbally assaulted by Heads).

 

Romney had better win this easil given the time he has put into Iowa. Saying that, this doesn't mean a whole lot, really not much of anything.

 

[Balta1701]

1. Mitt Romney 4,516 31.6%

2. Mike Huckabee 2,587 18.1%

3. Sam Brownback 2,192 15.3%

4. Tom Tancredo 1,960 13.7%

5. Ron Paul 1,305 9.1%

6. Tommy Thompson 1,039 7.3%

7. Fred Thompson 203 1.4%

8. Rudy Giuliani 183 1.3%

9. Duncan Hunter 174 1.2%

10. John McCain 101 0.7%

11. John Cox 41 0.3%

 

In 1999, there were somewhere around 24,000 participants in the straw poll. This year, the total was around 14,000. Either Iowa has lost an awful lot of people, or there was a vastly lower interest level.

[Balta1701]

And the whole "Haw-Haw" part:

 

The Iowa GOP just confirmed that one voting machine malfunctioned during today's Straw Poll, and some 1,500 ballots must be recounted by hand.

Yes, the machines were Diebold.

Edited August 12, 2007 by Balta1701

[spiderman]

1. Mitt Romney 4,516 31.6%

2. Mike Huckabee 2,587 18.1%

3. Sam Brownback 2,192 15.3%

4. Tom Tancredo 1,960 13.7%

5. Ron Paul 1,305 9.1%

6. Tommy Thompson 1,039 7.3%

7. Fred Thompson 203 1.4%

8. Rudy Giuliani 183 1.3%

9. Duncan Hunter 174 1.2%

10. John McCain 101 0.7%

11. John Cox 41 0.3%

 

In 1999, there were somewhere around 24,000 participants in the straw poll. This year, the total was around 14,000. Either Iowa has lost an awful lot of people, or there was a vastly lower interest level.

 

I just don't see the point of a straw poll in August, so long before the primaries even start up still. I don't think this will have any impact on anything other than Romney hyping it up for a day or two, and telling everyone that he's in it to win it. Meanwhile, the only two candidates are Rudy and Thompson (once he gets in) in the GOP Field.

[Balta1701]

Someone finally printed a Romney price tag.

Romney's opponents have complained about the cost of his straw poll campaign, estimated at more than $5 million. Romney said he didn't know the price tag for the straw poll but argued money spent on television commercials and campaign materials were aimed at building support for the election that counts, the caucus vote that could come as soon as mid-December

[spiderman]

Someone finally printed a Romney price tag.

 

Balta, who is your choice from the GOP as of today ?

[NorthSideSox72]

Balta, who is your choice from the GOP as of today ?

I'm not sure if you are familiar with the poster Balta, but that's kind of like asking Tom Tancredo who his favorite illegal immigrant is.