Shades of green in carbon offsets?

[NorthSideSox72]

And they are a complete joke. They aren't nearly disincentive to stop behavior. I know for a fact that one of the main steel mills pays over $1 million A DAY in fines to the EPA, because it is cheaper than actually changing and fixing the problem.

Then the market setup could be a chance to establish market prices for these reverse commodities that is actually in line with cost. I think its a great chance to make environmental progress but in a business-dynamic way, but the exchange needs some very specific regs and rules, as previously noted.

 

I don't know a ton about existing offset programs, but I have seen some bogus ones, and others that seem to actually work.

[mr_genius]

I think the biggest problem we're learning about with the latest data is that Europe did things the wrong way.

 

The Europeans set up their system by going to the companies that were already using energy and saying "Here you go, here are all your carbon offsets" for the stuff they were already using. Thus, all of the power over the system was in the hands of the people who were already emmitting. Some of them did things the right way and actually invested in green technology to free up carbon offsets for sale...and it appears quite a few did not.

 

It looks like this is giving us an important lesson in how to set up a better system if the rest of the world (aka the U.S. and China) ever get involved. Specifically, we can't put all of the power over the system in the hands of people who are looking to make a profit at any cost. It appears that it would be much better, rather than issuing carbon credits, to set up a carbon tax system, where an entity charges businesses that don't comply and rewards those that do comply rather than giving away carbon credits that businesses can sell.

 

NOVA did a story on the solar energy program in Germany. It was very interesting.

Edited April 26, 2007 by mr_genius

[EvilMonkey]

The offset programs will work just like so many other programs in our world today. Take the tollway. First, you pay a toll. Then they institute Ipass to make it easier of the users and help save them money. Then they start to make it harder for those who don't have an I-pass to use the tollway by giving them longer lines, and now charging them higher rates. I think they have even gone to the 'flexible tolls' plan for peak hours. Carbon offset programs will end up this route. At first, no big deal. Buy them if can/want. Then people will be 'incented' to buy them by higher prices on things or taxes if they don't. And that rate will continue to rise until the little guy gets squeezed completely.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

You can't tell me that someone like Cheryl Crow buying carbon offsets from an unregulated market is the same as her reducing her traveling party to save the enviornment. The system is inherantly flawed, and probably isn't a realistic solution as I see things.

 

I bolded your three suggestions, and I fully believe that only the last two are realistic solutions.

 

 

This is my favorite part right here. These hollywood types, who are little more than a bunch of sanctimonious doucheholes, go around whining about how horrible the SUV is for the environment. They do this after flying a bunch of private jets ( dont even try to tell me they use commercial ) which drink more fuel in 4 hours than an SUV can in a year.

[Texsox]

And they are a complete joke. They aren't nearly disincentive to stop behavior. I know for a fact that one of the main steel mills pays over $1 million A DAY in fines to the EPA, because it is cheaper than actually changing and fixing the problem.

link?

[southsider2k5]

link?

 

No link. Info from a union rep I know.

[Rex Kickass]

The Michigan City teachers' union?

[southsider2k5]

The Michigan City teachers' union?

 

Nah, a little closer to the mills, but I got some interesting numbers from the MCEA too