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Over-reaction or stopping a VT?

southsider2k5

By southsider2k5
in The Filibuster

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southsider2k5 Grand Master

southsider2k5

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http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/360827,...essay27.article

 

Essay arrest baffles experts

CARY | Say student's creative writing violent, but suggest counseling, not arrest

 

April 27, 2007

BY DAN ROZEK, ROSALIND ROSSI AND ABDON M. PALLASCH Staff Reporters

Police Thursday released portions of an essay used to charge a Cary-Grove High School student with disorderly conduct, leaving several experts puzzled at an arrest based on such schoolwork.

 

Asked to write about whatever he wanted in a creative writing class, would-be Marine and honors student Allen Lee, 18, described a violent dream in which he shot people and then "had sex with the dead bodies.''

 

Police on Thursday released portions of an essay used to charge Cary-Grove High School honors student Allen Lee, 18, with disorderly conduct.

(Richard A. Chapman/Sun-Times)

 

Cary-Grove High School senior Allen Lee was arrested Tuesday for an essay he wrote in a creative writing class. “There definitely is violent content, but they’re taking it out of context,” he said Thursday, later adding, “I have no intention of harming anyone.”

(Richard A. Chapman/Sun-Times)

Write or wrong

Excerpts from Allen Lee’s essay

• “As a teacher, don’t be surprised on inspiring the first CG

[Cary-Grove High School]

shooting.”

 

• “Blood, sex, booze. Drugs, drugs, drugs are fun. Stab, stab, stab, stab, stab, s..t..a..b...puke.”

 

• “So I had this dream last night where I went into a building, pulled out two P 90s

[submachine guns] and started shooting everyone, then had sex with the dead bodies. Well, not really, but it would be funny if I did.”

what do you think?

But then he immediately dismissed the idea as a mere joke, writing, "not really, but it would be funny if I did.''

A second disorderly count accuses Lee of alarming first-year teacher Nora Capron by writing that "as a teacher, don't be surprised on [sic] inspiring the first CG shooting,'' an apparent reference to Cary-Grove High.

 

Lee said Thursday he was "completely shocked'' to be arrested Tuesday for his essay, especially because written instructions told kids not to "censor'' what they wrote.

 

"In creative writing, you're told to exaggerate,'' said Lee. "It was supposed to be just junk. . . .

 

"There definitely is violent content, but they're taking it out of context and making it something it isn't.''

 

"I have no intention of harming anyone,'' said Lee, who has been transferred to an alternative school setting. "I miss school.''

 

Lee's father, Albert Lee, who emigrated from China 32 years ago, said his son has a clean academic and police record. He, too, insisted his son's essay was not threatening but authorities "drew a conclusion before the investigation. They didn't want to do the investigation.''

 

However, the father would not comment on whether he believed authorities acted quickly because his son is of Asian heritage, as was the Virginia Tech campus shooter.

 

Family therapist Michael Gurian, author of The Minds of Boys, said Allen Lee needs at least good counseling, but "If he was arrested solely based on those words, I don't see that as the most helpful course.''

 

Bernardine Dohrn, director of Northwestern University's Children and Family Justice Center, laughed when she heard the charge.

 

"You might want to talk to him, talk to his parents, but the criminal justice system seems to be the last thing you'd want,'' said Dohrn, a former Weatherman leader who lived for years as a fugitive.

 

Mike McInerney, former head of the Cook County Public Defender's Juvenile Court office, said he "wouldn't be happy'' if his son wrote such words but "I wouldn't criminalize free expression. . . . I don't think it's going to hold up criminally.''

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Flash Tizzle Grand Master

Flash Tizzle

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I don't believe they overreacted. Just read several of those quotes. It's actually far worse than anything Seung-Cho envisioned.

 

If he were to enter school tomorrow and unload several hundred rounds of ammunition upon his classmates, critics would have been all over the English teacher for not reporting the "creative" essay.

 

You'd expect an 18 year old high school student to understand such material in the wake of Virginia Tech would be taken seriously.

 

However, even though I understand their reaction, I don't believe he should be charged with any crime.

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DrunkBomber Grand Master

DrunkBomber

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This is turning into such a grey area its gonna be hard to allow people to write about stuff like this without being suspicious.

 

First off, what he wrote was pretty messed up and it is very odd he chose to wrote that, especially with whats going on in the country these days, but whose job is it to screen them and make the decision on what to do? Is there going to be an authority who decides who is a threat and who isnt?

 

Absolute worse case scenario...say this kid really had plans on doing this, is this minor arrest going to stop him or make him more angry? Are they going to watch him like a hawk from now on until he leaves for the military? Say they are planning on watching him, is that fair to him if it was simply something he wrote with no merit?

 

I can see how this situation at VT could shake people up but you cant make someone out to be a mass murderer because of a creative writing paper. This story is gonna make this kid look nuts to everyone regardless of what his reasons were and thats not really fair.

 

I reiterate though, that essay is messed up.

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Controlled Chaos Grand Master

Controlled Chaos

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This kid is a straight A student. He isn't an idiot...how could he write anything about inspiring a shooting in a high school. WTF kind of creating writing is this?

 

I can see the teacher saying write me an essay..be creative...don't censor yourself and exagerrate. So from that the kid writes this stuff?? I don't know if he should be charged with anything, but I definitely think the teacher did the right thing.

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NorthSideSox72 Grand Master

NorthSideSox72

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QUOTE(Texsox @ Apr 27, 2007 -> 11:46 AM)
What is the body count in most action thrillers? This seems so unreal. Based on this, how can we allow Stephen King to be walking free? Check the kids video games as well.

The student specifically referring the threat to his teacher, and wondered aloud about it. Much more specific than an action movie full of fictional characters. Not really comparable.

 

 

QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ Apr 27, 2007 -> 12:00 PM)
This kid is a straight A student. He isn't an idiot...how could he write anything about inspiring a shooting in a high school. WTF kind of creating writing is this?

 

I can see the teacher saying write me an essay..be creative...don't censor yourself and exagerrate. So from that the kid writes this stuff?? I don't know if he should be charged with anything, but I definitely think the teacher did the right thing.

He knew what he was doing - trying to be shocking. Well, congrats kid, you got the attention you wanted.

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FlaSoxxJim Grand Master

FlaSoxxJim

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QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 27, 2007 -> 02:02 PM)
He knew what he was doing - trying to be shocking. Well, congrats kid, you got the attention you wanted.

 

I think this about sums it up. The arrest may have been over the top, and when it's all sorted out, I don't think there should be any charges. But, it's along the lines of 'don't yell FIRE in a crowded theater. After 9-11, you don't make bomb jokes at the airport. Right or wrong, after VT, you're probably going to get scrutinized more if your writing assignments dwell on violent massacres.

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Texsox Grand Master

Texsox

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QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Apr 27, 2007 -> 01:27 PM)
I think this about sums it up. The arrest may have been over the top, and when it's all sorted out, I don't think there should be any charges. But, it's along the lines of 'don't yell FIRE in a crowded theater. After 9-11, you don't make bomb jokes at the airport. Right or wrong, after VT, you're probably going to get scrutinized more if your writing assignments dwell on violent massacres.

 

Great comment and a great analogy. You changed my mind on this.

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DrunkBomber Grand Master

DrunkBomber

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QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Apr 30, 2007 -> 05:44 PM)
Arrested? Probably not. t should have been looked into for sure, though.

 

Military won't take him now, either.

Did someone say that or is this an opinion? I dont think the military will deny him because of a creative writing paper.

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SoxFan562004 Grand Master

SoxFan562004

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QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ May 1, 2007 -> 01:12 PM)
Did someone say that or is this an opinion? I dont think the military will deny him because of a creative writing paper.

Right, if he's found NG, they should take him since he would not have commited a crime. Also, in my experience, military will take people as long as they are not currently on conditional discharge or supervision. Judges will usually go light on kids who are going into the military.

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Texsox Grand Master

Texsox

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Wow, one stupid mistake.

 

Well if we ever restate the draft no need to pucker up and kiss the guy next to you, just write a twisted, sick, violent essay and you will be released.

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FlaSoxxJim Grand Master

FlaSoxxJim

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QUOTE(Texsox @ May 1, 2007 -> 02:30 PM)
Wow, one stupid mistake.

 

Well if we ever restate the draft no need to pucker up and kiss the guy next to you, just write a twisted, sick, violent essay and you will be released.

 

"I said, 'Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill. Kill! I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth! Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill, KILL!! KILL.!'. . . !"

 

:)

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whitesoxfan101 Grand Master

whitesoxfan101

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Action and intent are FAR more important than words. You can't just start making "word crimes" because of fear. If the person is a whack job, something other than their essays will tell you that. Awareness and improved mental health care is how you try and stop mass shootings, not banning words in essays.

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Texsox Grand Master

Texsox

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QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ May 1, 2007 -> 03:00 PM)
"I said, 'Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill. Kill! I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth! Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill, KILL!! KILL.!'. . . !"

 

:)

:cheers

 

You can get anything you want . . .

 

damn kids will have to google this one. ;)

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Texsox Grand Master

Texsox

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QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ May 1, 2007 -> 05:25 PM)
I feel like having a big turkey dinner now for some reason. :D

you got a lot a damn gall to ask me if I've rehabilitated myself :D

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FlaSoxxJim Grand Master

FlaSoxxJim

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QUOTE(Texsox @ May 1, 2007 -> 06:47 PM)

you got a lot a damn gall to ask me if I've rehabilitated myself :D

 

Mother rapers. Father stabbers. . . Father rapers! Father rapers sitting right there on the bench next to me!

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Texsox Grand Master

Texsox

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QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ May 1, 2007 -> 10:29 PM)
Mother rapers. Father stabbers. . . Father rapers! Father rapers sitting right there on the bench next to me!

 

How many future leaders of industry and politics were on the "Group W" bench? The name is ironic now :lol:

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