RME JICO Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Actually what is up with Ozzie? The last couple of years he would be pissed off chewing people out in this situation, now everyone sounds like Eeyore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaus kinski Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Something that should have been done in the offseason needs to be done now. Wake up front office. Someone tell Williams the meter is running and there is no indication things are changing. Firing hitting coach wont put a threat in the line up. Fill in players like Mack, Osuna Terrero and Cintron just arent every day players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 QUOTE(Jimbo @ May 1, 2007 -> 10:53 PM) CHANGE IS GOOD......do it I generally agree, but if the next coach comes in and starts making wholesale changes, that may be far worst. The time to make the switch is before Spring training begins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHITESOXRANDY Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 If you want to fire Walker, it's fine by me. But, this lineup will still be one of the slowest in all of baseball, awful against left handed pitching, be full of low OBP guys and still have holes in LF and CF where big hitters normally reside. I don't think the Sox will make this change. I see them waiting for Thome, Hall and Pods to come back. If that fails by July, we might see a fire sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitoMB345 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 It's a joke, an absolute joke. I can't remember ever watching an offense this anemic. I mean, how many times have we gone up 1-0, 2-0 and just said "That's all they will score, better pitch a GEM " only to see it become true, and (generally) like last night, the pitcher blows it? The offense is so damn predictable. Homerun or out. Homerun or out. Thats all that happens. The ENTIRE LINEUP sucks right now. There is not a single person in the lineup that I would keep if I were to completely rebuild the team in my own fashion. Not a SINGLE one. Something needs to change. Whether it be Walker going, Ozzie going, new players, etc. etc., SOMETHING needs to change. We can not just become complacent with this s***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 I really wish Walt Hriniak was willing to get back with one team. Do we have any hitting coaches in the minor league system that may be good? I know we've discussed the poor approach system-wide, and I agree, but you'd think maybe one of them was an exception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 What's Eddie Murray doing these days? Actually, I think he is LA or something. We would probably just promote a minor league coach to the position. Don't think that would help much. Make a change if you replace him with someone respectable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ May 2, 2007 -> 08:12 AM) I really wish Walt Hriniak was willing to get back with one team. Do we have any hitting coaches in the minor league system that may be good? I know we've discussed the poor approach system-wide, and I agree, but you'd think maybe one of them was an exception. From the same system that produced the Brian Anderson long looping swing. Do not pick anyone from within our system, they need to go out. And hopefully find someone that can work on fundamentals, and a solid clean swing. Level, and can preach strikezone awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 2, 2007 -> 08:16 AM) From the same system that produced the Brian Anderson long looping swing. Do not pick anyone from within our system, they need to go out. And hopefully find someone that can work on fundamentals, and a solid clean swing. Level, and can preach strikezone awareness. So... who outside the organization seems good? Anyone have any info on hitting coaches with good reputations, or who turned teams around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 QUOTE(klaus kinski @ May 2, 2007 -> 08:00 AM) Something that should have been done in the offseason needs to be done now. Wake up front office. Someone tell Williams the meter is running and there is no indication things are changing. Firing hitting coach wont put a threat in the line up. Fill in players like Mack, Osuna Terrero and Cintron just arent every day players. Therein lies the problem...you can't go out and give up your resources (minor league pitching) to fix problems like LF or DH unless you have almost 100% certainty that neither Pods or Thome will come back 100% Mackowiak and Ozuna is fine as a 4-6 week solution, but not six months. Although there are quite a few that would prefer that option to having re-signed Pods, or at least it seems that way. I do think KW's really going to have to do some serious "stewing" about the direction of this organization, and it might have to come even before the trade deadline. We are aging (Thome, Contreras, Iguchi, AJ, Erstad, Dye) and slow...(Crede/Konerko). Or both. I think the end of the line is coming for this particular line-up, as there just seems to be something "missing" with this team, and its now been evident for at least three months of regular season play. And it's not just BA, Garcia or Brandon McCarthy you can blame...it's institutional, endemic, a "system" problem that permeates into the minor leagues. KW was so fortunate to put together that mix of talent in 2005, we started thinking the same things people were saying in 2000... Dynasty. Waves of pitching. Minor League Organization of the Year. Joe Borchard. Atlanta Braves. The only thing different today is we have better pitching, but our core of position players is much older than the 2000 group...Durham, Lee, Konerko, Valentin, Ordonez, Thomas and Singleton were all in their 20's or early 30's at that time. And that line-up wasn't enough to offset the pitching problems, injuries and lack of development at the minor league level (compared to the immense hype for the 2000-01 pitching prospects). QUOTE(Brian @ May 2, 2007 -> 08:13 AM) What's Eddie Murray doing these days? Actually, I think he is LA or something. We would probably just promote a minor league coach to the position. Don't think that would help much. Make a change if you replace him with someone respectable. I think Murray's probably a better hitting instructor than the -ss he was with the media during his playing career, but he doesn't exactly inspire me. With the veterans in our line-up, it's got to be someone they will listen to and respect. I know that Charlie Lau Jr. is always hyped here in KC by Royals fans, but I don't know much about him, as we're all more familiar with his father's books and what he did with George Brett. Believe it or not, the Royals' offense is actually in worse shape (especially driving in runs from scoring position) than the White Sox "arsenal." QUOTE(TitoMB345 @ May 2, 2007 -> 08:10 AM) It's a joke, an absolute joke. I can't remember ever watching an offense this anemic. I mean, how many times have we gone up 1-0, 2-0 and just said "That's all they will score, better pitch a GEM " only to see it become true, and (generally) like last night, the pitcher blows it? The offense is so damn predictable. Homerun or out. Homerun or out. Thats all that happens. The ENTIRE LINEUP sucks right now. There is not a single person in the lineup that I would keep if I were to completely rebuild the team in my own fashion. Not a SINGLE one. Something needs to change. Whether it be Walker going, Ozzie going, new players, etc. etc., SOMETHING needs to change. We can not just become complacent with this s***. That's the problem for KW...he doesn't have the luxury of completely rebuilding this team in the middle of the season. Those changes can't be made entirely until the offseason. Just like 2003 was the beginning of the end for the Lee/Ordonez/Valentin/Thomas group, I think this year will be the same thing for our current offense. A few of our contracts (Thome, Hall, Konerko and AJ), go through 2008 and beyond. Iguchi, Uribe, Erstad, Pods, Dye, Crede and most of our bench could easily be gone after this season. The complicated thing is keeping Thome and Konerko if you're rebuilding an entire offense around an aging player (Konerko) and one in the twilight of his career (Thome). I think Jim would be willing to accept a trade if they do go through a massive overhaul and completely change the complexion and "rebuild" for the future ala the 2002-2003 Cleveland Indians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Philips Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 sweet swinging robin ventura may be available Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Controlled Chaos Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ May 2, 2007 -> 08:19 AM) So... who outside the organization seems good? Anyone have any info on hitting coaches with good reputations, or who turned teams around? I say anyone from the twinkies organization. They been doing things the right way for so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Walk me through the change y'all are expecting. Wednesday, Walker gets released. Thursday a new hitting coach arrives. Friday he changes everyone's approach, notices mistakes that immediately are fixed, and the team is rolling by the weekend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo's Drinker Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 QUOTE(Texsox @ May 2, 2007 -> 09:14 AM) Walk me through the change y'all are expecting. Wednesday, Walker gets released. Thursday a new hitting coach arrives. Friday he changes everyone's approach, notices mistakes that immediately are fixed, and the team is rolling by the weekend? Ill take a few weeks of learning a new hitting system and losing, then watching these old farts whacking and missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 QUOTE(Texsox @ May 2, 2007 -> 09:14 AM) Walk me through the change y'all are expecting. Wednesday, Walker gets released. Thursday a new hitting coach arrives. Friday he changes everyone's approach, notices mistakes that immediately are fixed, and the team is rolling by the weekend? Didn't changing the hitting coach spark the 2005 Indians? They starting hitting like crazy after they changed hitting coaches. I'm not saying that would definitely happen with this team but it might spark something. Besides, this team stopped hitting last August and September. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo's Drinker Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 QUOTE(BigSqwert @ May 2, 2007 -> 09:18 AM) Didn't changing the hitting coach spark the 2005 Indians? They starting hitting like crazy after they changed hitting coaches. I'm not saying that would definitely happen with this team but it might spark something. Besides, this team stopped hitting last August and September. Change is good, stop being so loyal to Walker. Hey looks like season tickets will be vastlly available next year, thats fine by me. We suck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 QUOTE(Jimbo @ May 2, 2007 -> 09:19 AM) Change is good, stop being so loyal to Walker. Don't look at me. I think Walker is useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ May 2, 2007 -> 08:45 AM) I say anyone from the twinkies organization. They been doing things the right way for so long. The middle of the Twins' line-up is an exact replica of ours. The only difference is the players like Punto, Bartlett, Tyner, Casillas and Castillo are better fundamental players than our "all or nothing" attack of Uribe, BA, Mackowiak, Molina (worst catcher in WS history by far), Crede, Cintron, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 QUOTE(Jimbo @ May 2, 2007 -> 09:19 AM) Change is good, stop being so loyal to Walker. Hey looks like season tickets will be vastlly available next year, thats fine by me. We suck! Not loyal to Walker, I worry that wholesale changes would take weeks to learn and ultimately hurt more than help. It almost smacks of a white flag move way too early in the season. The change, as I posted earlier, should have been made before Spring training began. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 QUOTE(Texsox @ May 2, 2007 -> 09:33 AM) Not loyal to Walker, I worry that wholesale changes would take weeks to learn and ultimately hurt more than help. It almost smacks of a white flag move way too early in the season. The change, as I posted earlier, should have been made before Spring training began. Most studies have shown that changing pitching or hitting coaches in mid-season yield temporary positive results (2-4 weeks), but the overall performance after the change is almost indistinguishable from pre-change performance. It needs to be done in the offseason, and it needs to be a system/organization wide change in philosophy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo's Drinker Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 QUOTE(caulfield12 @ May 2, 2007 -> 10:06 AM) Most studies have shown that changing pitching or hitting coaches in mid-season yield temporary positive results (2-4 weeks), but the overall performance after the change is almost indistinguishable from pre-change performance. It needs to be done in the offseason, and it needs to be a system/organization wide change in philosophy. The White Sox are as stubborn a ballclub as there is, good luck with a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 "Can you hit?" manager Ozzie Guillen asked a reporter after the game. The Sox were limited to four hits and never put a runner in scoring position. They ended April ranked last in the American League with a .220 mark in that situation. "With all respect, everyone who pitches against the White Sox right now looks like Cy Young," Guillen said. "That's the truth. [Jarrod] Washburn threw well, but we didn't swing good. ... It's hard to win when you get four hits every day." Tribune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo's Drinker Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 TWO WORDS: SLUMP BUSTERS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Atleast someone is starting to understand that it is a bit of a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo's Drinker Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ May 2, 2007 -> 10:45 AM) Atleast someone is starting to understand that it is a bit of a problem. Ozzie needs to chew this team out, break things, hell sacrifice Cora to the baseball gods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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