The Greg Walker Lynch mob thread

[witesoxfan]

Tell me how long did it take for the Indians to turn their offense around in 05 when they fired their hitting coach.

 

The Indians scored 214 runs in 54 games in 2005 under Eddie Murray, which is right around 4 runs a game. Over their next 15 games, they scored 88 runs - 6 runs a game - and they ended the year with 576 runs scored in 108 games under Derek Shelton (who is still their hitting coach), or 5.33 runs a game.

 

They then scored 870 runs last year with Aaron Boone, Jason Michaels, and Jhonny Peralta getting 1572 PAs and putting up a combined OPS+ of like 84, or an OPS of roughly .700. That's like 3 quarters of their batting order putting up s***ty numbers, and they still averaged 5.4 runs a game.

[Texsox]

Tell me how long did it take for the Indians to turn their offense around in 05 when they fired their hitting coach.

 

And it could happen again. Or it could not. We could wind up out of the race as the players struggle to adjust to a new coach. It's a gamble either way. I think the time to change was before Spring training.

[harfman77]

I think the blame falls a lot more with the players not getting the job done and not being focused than it does with Greg Walker. That said sometimes I think it takes fresh blood to wake up the troops and bring their focus back in. I think it is time for a change, this offense is much too talented to hit this badly.

[BigSqwert]

This team looks dead to me. I thought we'd never see an Ozzie coached team play like this. He's the great motivator who keeps everyone loose....or at least I've been told that numerous times over the past few years.

[caulfield12]

This team looks dead to me. I thought we'd never see an Ozzie coached team play like this. He's the great motivator who keeps everyone loose....or at least I've been told that numerous times over the past few years.

 

 

A week or so ago, when we went on that 6 of 7 run that started with Buehrle's no-hitter, we looked like a totally different team.

 

You would have thought we would be able to sustain it, to some extent. Of course, winning is the best "fix" for any team...as Ozzie said, these are the times when the coaches earn their money and they have to collectively figure a way out of this malaise.

 

At least in 2005 down the stretch, you'd seen that they have the ability to play much better baseball. This time, we've been on a 45-54 stretch (essentially 100 games played) and we're just looking mediocre.

[sircaffey]

And it could happen again. Or it could not. We could wind up out of the race as the players struggle to adjust to a new coach. It's a gamble either way. I think the time to change was before Spring training.

 

What are we gambling? Things can't get worse.

[Dick Allen]

The White Sox have been a below .500 team now for over 100 games. Maybe they just aren't that good.

[caulfield12]

The White Sox have been a below .500 team now for over 100 games. Maybe they just aren't that good.

 

 

Therein lies the question KW has to be asking himself...

 

Of course, the Cardinals probably had a similar stretch last year where they were under .500.

 

However, they didn't have three teams capable of going deep into the playoffs stacked up in front of them.

[Texsox]

What are we gambling? Things can't get worse.

 

Yes they can. Weeks and weeks trying to get adjusted to a new approach., Not trusting the new guy. I think the risk is about equal on both paths and prefer coaching changes in the off season.

[fathom]

The White Sox have been a below .500 team now for over 100 games. Maybe they just aren't that good.

 

I'm just so grateful we capitalized on our golden chance during 2005. I mean that as sincerely as possible.

[iguchi=dank]

Amen, its such a hard, hard thing to do especially in baseball where getting to the postseason is hard, and once your their anything can happen. Realistically the twins and oakland and others like them have had more consistent runs lately... but its very hard to seal the deal. Watching games like these lately makes me love 2005 more everyday.

[witesoxfan]

The White Sox have been a below .500 team now for over 100 games. Maybe they just aren't that good.

 

How did they go from being the 2nd best team in the entire Major Leagues Pre-ASB 2006 to being one of the worst in a matter of seconds? And I'm being slightly critical, slightly quizzical. It just seems that this team is not that good anymore, and the offense is just absolute garbage right now...but how is that possible to transition that quickly?

 

There is talent, though not a lot right now, offensively on this team. Crede, Dye, Konerko, Iguchi, Pierzynski, and Uribe all have a shot in hell at doing something productive this year, Sweeney can probably mimic Erstad's stats pretty well, and then there is .270 singles hitter Erstad and Mackowiak. Basically, I just don't understand how that team is hitting .225 as a whole. Someone has to take the fall, whether right or wrong, and I think it has to be Walker.

[BigSqwert]

So this thread was started to bash on Greg Walker and get support to fire him. If they do let him go who are the potential candidates to fill the position? I always thought Tim Raines would have been a better choice then Greg Walker but didn't Raines leave the organization after last season?

[StrangeSox]

Yes they can. Weeks and weeks trying to get adjusted to a new approach., Not trusting the new guy. I think the risk is about equal on both paths and prefer coaching changes in the off season.

 

Are they really going to get worse than they are? And if so, does it matter? The current output isn't going to get them anywhere near the playoffs.

[Texsox]

Are they really going to get worse than they are? And if so, does it matter? The current output isn't going to get them anywhere near the playoffs.

 

The question is which approach could get them moving sooner? If players thought Walker was the cause, don't you think comments would have been leaked by now and all over the press?

 

We have a few assumptions here. For example, that Walker took it upon himself to move away from "small ball" and into more power. That somehow Walker is solely responsible for the approach that the team is taking. For all we know, he is following the company line and the next guy may be forced to teach to the same goal.

 

Prior to 2005, and during that season, every member of the organization was the target of this sort of plan. Of all the people in the organization that I could see leaving, Walker is at the top of the list. But I think it should have been done during the off season.

[southsider2k5]

I merged the two Greg Walker threads into one gigantic hatefest... No need for a new thread everyday, so this is the place for all things Walker.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

I merged the two Greg Walker threads into one gigantic hatefest... No need for a new thread everyday, so this is the place for all things Walker.

 

 

 

hopefully walker will be extinct soon enough.

[badatbest]

I think we all knew we needed to improve in CF and LF in the offseason. We didnt. When 3-7 in the batting order are lighting it up, that deficiency in LF and CF isnt so obvious. Its pretty obvious right now.

[AddisonStSox]

Just curious, and I don't intend to read through this thread, but, at what point does the scope of accountability begin to focus on the players on the field and not the ownership, General Manager, coaching staff, etc.?

[Texsox]

Just curious, and I don't intend to read through this thread, but, at what point does the scope of accountability begin to focus on the players on the field and not the ownership, General Manager, coaching staff, etc.?

.

Nope, it's all Walker's fault. Replace Walker and we're hitting .300 with line drives everywhere.

[Kalapse]

Just curious, and I don't intend to read through this thread, but, at what point does the scope of accountability begin to focus on the players on the field and not the ownership, General Manager, coaching staff, etc.?

It is first and foremost the player's responsibility to produce on the field, however when the offense hits a serious low like it's at right now something needs to be done to attempt to pull them out of the funk. Since the players can not be terminated and KW isn't willing to give up on any future pieces to acquire new position players, the coach in charge of hitting takes the fall. In the end there is only so much you can do to hold the players accountable, the coaches on the other hand can be replaced with ease.

[The Ginger Kid]

How did they go from being the 2nd best team in the entire Major Leagues Pre-ASB 2006 to being one of the worst in a matter of seconds? And I'm being slightly critical, slightly quizzical. It just seems that this team is not that good anymore, and the offense is just absolute garbage right now...but how is that possible to transition that quickly?

 

There is talent, though not a lot right now, offensively on this team. Crede, Dye, Konerko, Iguchi, Pierzynski, and Uribe all have a shot in hell at doing something productive this year, Sweeney can probably mimic Erstad's stats pretty well, and then there is .270 singles hitter Erstad and Mackowiak. Basically, I just don't understand how that team is hitting .225 as a whole. Someone has to take the fall, whether right or wrong, and I think it has to be Walker.

 

For more than a year it feels like we've been waiting for this team to "click" as hawk says. To me it seems like they clicked in the first five months of '05 and then again in October of '05. That's it. And I'm not taking anything away from winning 90 games last year, I'm just talking about the team playing to the potential we all seem to think is there (although I'm starting to doubt that as well).

[shawnhillegas]

I'll take things because this team has played better than pretty much every one of those teams ahead of them aside from the Indians.

 

I also know the offense will get better and when it does this team will be sick, especially with the rotation/pen. I am more confident in this team than I was last years team.

 

 

 

I'm interested to see what kind of final numbers the positive individuals on this board are projecting for our regulars. We talk about 3 games as if its no big thing, but I would be willing to be a lot of money it will be 5 games 1 week from today.

[Texsox]

I'm interested to see what kind of final numbers the positive individuals on this board are projecting for our regulars. We talk about 3 games as if its no big thing, but I would be willing to be a lot of money it will be 5 games 1 week from today.

 

I believe there is a difference between being positive and thinking that not firing a coach right now is the best course of action. I am not happy with Walker, but think a switch right now isn't worth the risk. I don't want to see him during Spring Training '08.

 

I don't see a coach coming in, making the changes necessary, and all of a sudden guys can change a swing overnight and build better habits. Unless we're talking about a psychological boost, I don't see the risk as worth it. I also am not convinced that this is solely Walker preaching long ball. I am more inclined to believe it is a system wide approach based on the personnel we have.

[Baines3]

At the rate things are going the Sox will be called the hitless wonders again.