The Greg Walker Lynch mob thread

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 10:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think anyone believes that Greg Walker is causing our problems. But it's a logical change to make at the moment.

Logical? To who and how? It doesn't seem logical at all. Actually a lot here do think he is causing the problems with some lift and pull approach that he teaches and preaches that no one has any evidence of. I think SS2K5 hit the nail on the head to tell you the truth.

[Dick Allen]

Um...I don't get it. Billy Goat has nothing to do with baseball. A hitting coach has a s***load to do with baseball.

 

Bottom line this offense and the bullpen have been horrendous. The offense has been bad all season while the pen actually was good for the first month of the season.

 

Point being...with a better offense this team has quite a few more wins (same can be said about the pen) and well Greg Walker is the hitting coach so when a team is the worse in baseball (and possesses guys that have produced during large chunks of there major league careers) the blame is going to deservingly get pointed at the guy whose paid to teach and help work with the hitters (whether its his fault or not).

Then shouldn't Don Cooper be out of a job? The pitching is why the Sox didn't win last year, and its actually worse by the numbers this year at the same point in time. Don Cooper doesn't get any heat. Everyone bought the playoff tiredness, too bad it doesn't seem to affect other teams that make the playoffs way more often than the White Sox. Its not the coaches. Its the players. They are not that good. The White Sox have a few good individual offensive players. They really have no speed. They really have no lead off guy. They have no one who can bunt. They have no hit and run guys. They are loaded with slow guys who swing and miss a lot. KW needs to go back to the drawing board.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 08:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then shouldn't Don Cooper be out of a job? The pitching is why the Sox didn't win last year, and its actually worse by the numbers this year at the same point in time. Don Cooper doesn't get any heat. Everyone bought the playoff tiredness, too bad it doesn't seem to affect other teams that make the playoffs way more often than the White Sox. Its not the coaches. Its the players. They are not that good. The White Sox have a few good individual offensive players. They really have no speed. They really have no lead off guy. They have no one who can bunt. They have no hit and run guys. They are loaded with slow guys who swing and miss a lot. KW needs to go back to the drawing board.

Exactly! Lets get rid of freakin Cooper. So what if the starters are good - they are veterans for the most part. The bullpen freakin sucks and it has to be because of him. He is the one teaching the kids. Plus he is the one teaching them not to pitch will all the velocity, right? Get rid of him! Hang em! Sounds ridiculous.

I completely agree with your entire post Dick Allen. Lets get some better players in here.

 

I think one of the things that a lot of the Sox fans that call for coaching changes have similar to most Cub fans is that they all think coaching changes are needed and are the fix all end all. Get rid of Baylor - he sucks, bring in Dusty, YAY! Get rid of Dusty, he sucks, bring in Lou, YAY! Lou freakin sucks, why didn't the Cubs get Girardi? Boo Lou, HOORAY Girardi! Yet the team remains the same bunch of stink ass players as before and they keep losing. It is the same here with the fans that want coaching changes. The coach can change, yet the output on the field will be the same if you don't change the players. You people just want that warm and fuzzy feeling inside that a change was made because management heard you and they care about you. Yeah - ok!

[southsideirish71]

Exactly! Lets get rid of freakin Cooper. So what if the starters are good - they are veterans for the most part. The bullpen freakin sucks and it has to be because of him. He is the one teaching the kids. Plus he is the one teaching them not to pitch will all the velocity, right? Get rid of him! Hang em! Sounds ridiculous.

I completely agree with your entire post Dick Allen. Lets get some better players in here.

 

I think one of the things that a lot of the Sox fans that call for coaching changes have similar to most Cub fans is that they all think coaching changes are needed and are the fix all end all. Get rid of Baylor - he sucks, bring in Dusty, YAY! Get rid of Dusty, he sucks, bring in Lou, YAY! Lou freakin sucks, why didn't the Cubs get Girardi? Boo Lou, HOORAY Girardi! Yet the team remains the same bunch of stink ass players as before and they keep losing. It is the same here with the fans that want coaching changes. The coach can change, yet the output on the field will be the same if you don't change the players. You people just want that warm and fuzzy feeling inside that a change was made because management heard you and they care about you. Yeah - ok!

 

By your logic, Manuel, Nardi, and Von Joshua should still be employed by the Palehose.

[Gregory Pratt]

Then shouldn't Don Cooper be out of a job? The pitching is why the Sox didn't win last year, and its actually worse by the numbers this year at the same point in time. Don Cooper doesn't get any heat. Everyone bought the playoff tiredness, too bad it doesn't seem to affect other teams that make the playoffs way more often than the White Sox. Its not the coaches. Its the players. They are not that good. The White Sox have a few good individual offensive players. They really have no speed. They really have no lead off guy. They have no one who can bunt. They have no hit and run guys. They are loaded with slow guys who swing and miss a lot. KW needs to go back to the drawing board.

 

With Buehrle, it wasn't necessarily tiredness but he wasn't conditioned properly in the offseason as he, by his own admission, took it a little easy after the WS win. As far as Garcia, all his innings don't hurt.

 

Everyone else wasn't THAT bad. Contreras' innings have definitely hurt him. He's thrown like 8000 in Cuba and here combined.

 

Garland started off with dead-arm. Vazquez was fine.

 

The whole "overextended pitching staff" thing isn't exactly a hollow excuse. Randy Johnson spoke about it last year, too. But what the f*** does he know?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[Dick Allen]

With Buehrle, it wasn't necessarily tiredness but he wasn't conditioned properly in the offseason as he, by his own admission, took it a little easy after the WS win. As far as Garcia, all his innings don't hurt.

 

Everyone else wasn't THAT bad. Contreras' innings have definitely hurt him. He's thrown like 8000 in Cuba and here combined.

 

Garland started off with dead-arm. Vazquez was fine.

 

The whole "overextended pitching staff" thing isn't exactly a hollow excuse. Randy Johnson spoke about it last year, too. But what the f*** does he know?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

And last year the White Sox lead baseball hitting with RISP. They had a higher OBP hit more homers, and struck out less than Texas, who have supposedly the greatest hitting coach who has ever walked. Leo Mazzone was a pitching coach God, now with Baltimore, his relievers blow. Did he suddenly become stupid? Did Walker suddenly become stupid? The offense has no speed, has no one who can hit and run. Is loaded with guys who strike out a lot. Why is it Walker has to change them from what they are but Cooper gets a pass? I have read countless posts how great Javy Vazquez is. Look at his record with the Sox. Cooper is getting nothing from him. Is it the coaches fault? What about the bullpen. MacDougal was good now he sucks. Blame Cooper. Aardsma was decent in meaningless games for the Cubs. Now he sucks. Blame Cooper. Sisco can't throw a strike. I'm blaming Cooper. Personally, I just think its ridiculous to pin the White Sox lack of offense on the hitting coach. The team is constructed very poorly. I would just like to see consistency from the board when placing blame on failure. If its Walker's fault the offense is bad. Its Coopers fault the bullpen can't throw a strike, and Vazquez always pitches well enough to lose. Ozzie gets a pass too. If Jerry Manuel were the manager he would get fried on this site. Gene LaMont got fired about 30 games into the 1995 season for bad results even though he won a division in 1993 when it was tougher to make the playoffs, and led a team whose organization says to this day would have won the WS in 1994 if there had been one. Finally, KW needs to be skewered as well.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 02:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By your logic, Manuel, Nardi, and Von Joshua should still be employed by the Palehose.

That is not true at all. That is not my logic. The White Sox wanted and needed to go in a different direction than Manuel. They no longer wanted the calm manager with no emotion. They wanted a fiery guy. In Nardi and Von Joshua I am not sure of the issues - but I am sure there were more issues than veteran players not hitting or pitching. There has to be more to it than that.

[GaelicSoxFan]

/beginrant

 

 

 

 

To all the people who want Walk's head on a platter, I have a question for you: who's gonna replace him?

 

I know there are hitting coaches out there, but there's a reason why they're unemployed at this point in the season. They're bad. Eddie Murray was a great hitter in his career, but he couldn't get the job done as a coach. Or would the Sox make Harold Baines the hitting coach? Here's what the players are gonna hear from him:

 

(crickets chirping)

 

 

 

 

/endrant

[BearSox]

seriously though, how does this guy still have a job?

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(GaelicSoxFan @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

/beginrant

 

 

 

 

To all the people who want Walk's head on a platter, I have a question for you: who's gonna replace him?

 

I know there are hitting coaches out there, but there's a reason why they're unemployed at this point in the season. They're bad. Eddie Murray was a great hitter in his career, but he couldn't get the job done as a coach. Or would the Sox make Harold Baines the hitting coach? Here's what the players are gonna hear from him:

 

(crickets chirping)

 

 

 

 

/endrant

I can tell you it will be Manny Trillo. That is who is going to save this offense damnit - not new players - Manny Trillo.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Here's a few candidates

 

http://hit2win.com/

 

http://www.baseballtips.com/instructo.html

 

http://www.mauersquickswing.com/

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

seriously though, how does this guy still have a job?

Because he is employed by people smarter than you that actually know baseball and know what is actually going on with the team and around the team? Just a hunch.

Edited June 18, 2007 by southsideirish

[BearSox]

Because he is employed by people smarter than you that actually know baseball and know what is actually going on with the team and around the team. Just a hunch.

Yeah, you busted me. I know nothing about baseball. Obviously, if a coach is coaching the worst offense in baseball, he must be doing something right.

[Gregory Pratt]

And last year the White Sox lead baseball hitting with RISP. They had a higher OBP hit more homers, and struck out less than Texas, who have supposedly the greatest hitting coach who has ever walked. Leo Mazzone was a pitching coach God, now with Baltimore, his relievers blow. Did he suddenly become stupid? Did Walker suddenly become stupid? The offense has no speed, has no one who can hit and run. Is loaded with guys who strike out a lot. Why is it Walker has to change them from what they are but Cooper gets a pass? I have read countless posts how great Javy Vazquez is. Look at his record with the Sox. Cooper is getting nothing from him. Is it the coaches fault? What about the bullpen. MacDougal was good now he sucks. Blame Cooper. Aardsma was decent in meaningless games for the Cubs. Now he sucks. Blame Cooper. Sisco can't throw a strike. I'm blaming Cooper. Personally, I just think its ridiculous to pin the White Sox lack of offense on the hitting coach. The team is constructed very poorly. I would just like to see consistency from the board when placing blame on failure. If its Walker's fault the offense is bad. Its Coopers fault the bullpen can't throw a strike, and Vazquez always pitches well enough to lose. Ozzie gets a pass too. If Jerry Manuel were the manager he would get fried on this site. Gene LaMont got fired about 30 games into the 1995 season for bad results even though he won a division in 1993 when it was tougher to make the playoffs, and led a team whose organization says to this day would have won the WS in 1994 if there had been one. Finally, KW needs to be skewered as well.

 

You might give some credit to Mazzone for Ruthrie and Bedard and Ray as much criticism as you want for his relievers.

 

But let's change the subject around a bit, DA.

 

When do YOU blame the coaches. Do you ever?

[BearSox]

Here's a few candidates

 

http://hit2win.com/

 

http://www.baseballtips.com/instructo.html

 

http://www.mauersquickswing.com/

nice....

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 03:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, you busted me. I know nothing about baseball. Obviously, if a coach is coaching the worst offense in baseball, he must be doing something right.

No - he is obviously doing nothing at all. He is teaching them the lift and pull approach obviously and the players he is working with have all the talent in the world. He got it all under control. Lets keep the same players and get a new coach. Lets see what the new coach can do with this bunch of crap.

I never said you knew nothing - I said the White Sox staff is smarter than you and actually knows baseball. Not sayin that you don't, but you don't know it as good or as much as them. I am sure they can see the same stuff you see and more.

[Dick Allen]

You might give some credit to Mazzone for Ruthrie and Bedard and Ray as much criticism as you want for his relievers.

 

But let's change the subject around a bit, DA.

 

When do YOU blame the coaches. Do you ever?

It certainly would be when I was comfortable with the talent on the field being better than the results. The Sox have DP candidates up and down the line-up. The line-up is bad. There really are no huge on base guys besides Thome. I just can't see how its Walker's fault Konerko and Dye suddenly play like they are 45 years old. If they hit like they did last year, under Walker's presence, there would be no problem except that there still is no speed. Walker didn't get dumb overnight. If hitting coaches make 100 point differences in batting averages, they are vastly underpaid.

[Gregory Pratt]

It certainly would be when I was comfortable with the talent on the field being better than the results. The Sox have DP candidates up and down the line-up. The line-up is bad. There really are no huge on base guys besides Thome. I just can't see how its Walker's fault Konerko and Dye suddenly play like they are 45 years old. If they hit like they did last year, under Walker's presence, there would be no problem except that there still is no speed. Walker didn't get dumb overnight. If hitting coaches make 100 point differences in batting averages, they are vastly underpaid.

 

Do you have any criticisms to make of minor league hitting coaches? Since nobody ever comes up and does anything?

[Dick Allen]

Do you have any criticisms to make of minor league hitting coaches? Since nobody ever comes up and does anything?

 

Its hard to say. Most of the guys KW traded away can't hit in the spots where they landed either. So I would say its most likely a lack of ability which falls on the scouts.

[BearSox]

No - he is obviously doing nothing at all. He is teaching them the lift and pull approach obviously and the players he is working with have all the talent in the world. He got it all under control. Lets keep the same players and get a new coach. Lets see what the new coach can do with this bunch of crap.

I never said you knew nothing - I said the White Sox staff is smarter than you and actually knows baseball. Not sayin that you don't, but you don't know it as good or as much as them. I am sure they can see the same stuff you see and more.

How do you know? Have you actually ever gone inside my brain and saw what I was seeing when I was watching a baseball game? If you have, that is a big invasion of my privacy.

[vandy125]

How do you know? Have you actually ever gone inside my brain and saw what I was seeing when I was watching a baseball game? If you have, that is a big invasion of my privacy.

 

Do you spend at least 40 hours a week looking at swings, studying tape, talking with professional baseball players? I seriously doubt that.

[29thandPoplar]

Guillen said last week firing any of the coaches "sends the wrong message" (his quote). Now, people can agree with that or not. However it seems to me he is putting the onus on the Sox players.

 

Coaches generally get fired when they are lazy or don't put the work in or are abrasive and can't get along with players and staff and mgmt. Or if the players hate them. Tim Raines as an example was not retained because he did not work hard enough (putting in the hours and helping the team prepare). Per Guillen.

 

None of these appear to be the issue with Walker. Personally I dont much care if he stays or goes but this seems to be Sox mgmt. thought process on the matter.

[BearSox]

Do you spend at least 40 hours a week looking at swings, studying tape, talking with professional baseball players? I seriously doubt that.

No, but how do you know Greg Walker does that? Or are you just assuming he does?

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, but how do you know Greg Walker does that? Or are you just assuming he does?

Because that is his job. If he wasn't doing at least this he would have been fired a long time ago. So we can either assume that you know this as well and you are just looking to argue OR we can assume you really don't know anything about baseball.

Edited June 18, 2007 by southsideirish

[Dick Allen]

Ozzie would easily be able to tell if the players have tuned out Walker. If he thought they had, I'm sure he'd be gone. When things go bad, stories leak. If the players didn't want to work with Walker, we would have read something by now.