Sign Buehrle, trade Crede and Dye

[caulfield12]

This is the best option to field a competitive team for next year.

 

I think Mark really wants to stay, and I think John Danks would really prosper by spending more time with Buehrle.

 

The chances of us making the playoffs are down to 20-25% at this point. Obviously, KW won't trade Dye and Crede any time soon, and trading Crede for less than full value while he's struggling would be dumb, but I think we really need to deal both of these guys in June or July.

 

It also gives us the ability to really see what Sweeney, Fields and hopefully Anderson or even Owens can do. It's not going to be a fun season, but the best news is that our starting pitching and bullpen is going to keep us very competitive over the next couple of seasons.

 

We have the flexibility to stay with Erstad, Iguchi and Uribe at those three positions or take totally different approaches.

 

AJ and Hall will still be the catchers, and Konerko and Thome will still be around as well.

 

In the meantime, you spend the next 2-3 months doing "due diligence" throughout the AA, AAA and major league rosters finding players that will fit. We can't have all contact or small ball hitters unless we move the fences back to Old Comiskey dimensions. Heck, at this point, any option should be considered.

 

There are SERIOUS questions whether Fields, Anderson or Sweeney will ever be everyday major leaguers, let alone All-Stars. KW can't go out into the 07 offseason without full knowledge of what those three guys, and even Owens, can do.

 

I think the odds are pretty high that Pods is also done for this year as a "sparkplug" and that he will return to 2006 form (tentative on the basepaths and defensively) if/when he comes back. Not only that, but he has to be careful physically because he's playing for a 2007 contract with another organization.

 

With all that said, we're in much better shape than if we had to replace 2-3 starting pitchers and most of the bullpen. Finding offensive players is cheaper and easier than finding pitchers, especially lefties, and it looks like we have two special ones (and maybe even three, with Gio) with Mark and Mr. Danks.

 

The best thing we can do right now is find a new SS and a younger, power hitting OF to replace Dye, who is about 6 months away from being a full-time DH. And we can't keep Jermaine in that role due the presence of Thome through 2008.

 

2B and LF will be easier to replace, and we simply have to hope Sweeney can hit with 15-18 home run power, which will allow him to be an everyday player if we get a power hitter for LF and a leadoff guy from SS or 2B.

Edited May 2, 2007 by caulfield12

[knightni]

I respectfully decline your thesis and request that you fornicate yourself.

 

 

No one will give a decent return in trade on a free agent to-be that is Dye's age.

 

I could see trading Crede but I'm not willing to give up on him quite yet.

[Rowand44]

This is quite the overreaction right now.

[Brian]

Brilliant

[caulfield12]

I respectfully decline your thesis and request that you fornicate yourself.

No one will give a decent return in trade on a free agent to-be that is Dye's age.

 

I could see trading Crede but I'm not willing to give up on him quite yet.

 

I disagree. If KW makes Dye available, there won't be a bigger impact bat available on the market. Dye, the #5 finisher in the AL MVP race and still a very potent bat, makes any contender twice as dangerous.

 

Think if he was added to the Angels, and how much more dangerous that line-up would be. He could go back to Oakland. He's perfect, because he would only have to be paid around $2.5-3.5 million for 2-3 months and you wouldn't be committing yourself to a huge, long-term deal like Abreu's.

 

You don't think the Yankees would have rather have assumed Dye's $7 million salary than Abreu's $15.5 million, if both those sluggers were put on the market last year at the same time?

 

Over the last year and one-half, Dye is one of the top 10-15 hitters in the game, a World Series MVP and a proven clutch performer.

[knightni]

Teams would like him. They just wouldn't offer the Sox anything for him.

[caulfield12]

This is quite the overreaction right now.

 

Since the series at Boston last year before the All-Star break, what reasons have you had to be encouraged about this Sox team being capable of competing in the AL Central?

 

Without Pods, Thome and Hall...?

 

Since that series, we're 45-54 and just came out of any abysmal spring training. After a certain point, you have a trend and not a blip on the radar.

 

I'm willing to bet pretty much anything you want that we don't win more than 86 games this season.

[Rowand44]

Since the series at Boston last year before the All-Star break, what reasons have you had to be encouraged about this Sox team being capable of competing in the AL Central?

 

Without Pods, Thome and Hall...?

 

Since that series, we're 45-54 and just came out of any abysmal spring training. After a certain point, you have a trend and not a blip on the radar.

 

I'm willing to bet pretty much anything you want that we don't win more than 86 games this season.

Our pitching is pretty damn good right now. Nobody thinks this offense is going to be amazing but it's certainly not going to be anywhere near this bad all season. To give up in May is pretty ridiculous.

[caulfield12]

Teams would like him. They just wouldn't offer the Sox anything for him.

 

 

Then why were so many people coming into this season saying we should sign him to a 3 year, $45 million extension...and that we were headed for the worst possible outfield (offensively) in baseball history with Mack, Pods, Ozuna, Owens, BA, Erstad and Sweeney?

Edited May 2, 2007 by caulfield12

[elrockinMT]

Mr Caulfield is taking a very extreme negative view of this teams chances after just 24 games or so. I respectfully disagree with him also. I think the Sox should be trying to sign Crede, Dye and Buerhle now and not at the end of the year or never whatever the case may be. Thome and Pods will be back soon enoigh and hopefully Hall. The hitters will hit again and things will be better. Right now it's frustarting for sure though.

[caulfield12]

Our pitching is pretty damn good right now. Nobody thinks this offense is going to be amazing but it's certainly not going to be anywhere near this bad all season. To give up in May is pretty ridiculous.

 

 

Who's to say we couldn't play better with Josh Fields at 3B and ??? player in RF?

 

Seriously, many Sox fans thought we were committing suicide by replacing Garcia and McCarthy with Danks, and that's turned out to be the best move, hasn't it?

 

We need an injection of youth, speed, enthusiasm, excitement....something.

 

Mr Caulfield is taking a very extreme negative view of this teams chances after just 24 games or so. I respectfully disagree with him also. I think the Sox should be trying to sign Crede, Dye and Buerhle now and not at the end of the year or never whatever the case may be. Thome and Pods will be back soon enoigh and hopefully Hall. The hitters will hit again and things will be better. Right now it's frustarting for sure though.

 

 

If we ARE able to keep Buehrle, we then have four starters in the vicinity of $45-50 million....and then Danks.

 

We can't keep Crede and Dye AND Buehrle. The math's impossible for this franchise. And it makes no sense to keep Crede when we have a farm system that has produced a replacement in Fields.

 

As some of the BA backers have mentioned, BA and Sweeney and Fields HAVE to succeed for this franchise to be a viable, competitive member of the AL Central in 2008-2010. We can't afford free agents for those three positions AND Thome/Konerko add another $22-23 million per year. Right there, the four pitchers and Thome/Konerko would equal our entire payroll for the 2005 championship team.

 

And you still have to figure out what to do with Iguchi and Uribe...

Edited May 2, 2007 by caulfield12

[witesoxfan]

You know, I hate to be a complete buzzkill, homer, Hawk-lover right here, but the Twins were 11-18 on May 5th of last year. They won 96 games.

 

I'm not comparing the Twins and Sox, but one of the changes that the Twins made during last year was a change in hitting coaches early on, and they also got rid of their mediocre talent and replaced it with younger talent. In other words, get rid of Walker to light a fire, get Fields up to play LF, get Sweeney in to play RF, and get Dye into the DH spot until Thome comes back. When Thome does come back, demote one of Fields and Sweeney who is doing the worst. It's a long shot to work, but that will atleast bring some talent into the lineup rather than trotting Mackowiak, Terrero, and Ozuna out there every game.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

This is the best option to field a competitive team for next year.

This season just started.

 

You know, I hate to be a complete buzzkill, homer, Hawk-lover right here, but the Twins were 11-18 on May 5th of last year. They won 96 games.

 

I'm not comparing the Twins and Sox, but one of the changes that the Twins made during last year was a change in hitting coaches early on, and they also got rid of their mediocre talent and replaced it with younger talent. In other words, get rid of Walker to light a fire, get Fields up to play LF, get Sweeney in to play RF, and get Dye into the DH spot until Thome comes back. When Thome does come back, demote one of Fields and Sweeney who is doing the worst. It's a long shot to work, but that will atleast bring some talent into the lineup rather than trotting Mackowiak, Terrero, and Ozuna out there every game.

I agree with everything except the part about bringing up Fields to play LF.

[caulfield12]

You know, I hate to be a complete buzzkill, homer, Hawk-lover right here, but the Twins were 11-18 on May 5th of last year. They won 96 games.

 

I'm not comparing the Twins and Sox, but one of the changes that the Twins made during last year was a change in hitting coaches early on, and they also got rid of their mediocre talent and replaced it with younger talent. In other words, get rid of Walker to light a fire, get Fields up to play LF, get Sweeney in to play RF, and get Dye into the DH spot until Thome comes back. When Thome does come back, demote one of Fields and Sweeney who is doing the worst. It's a long shot to work, but that will atleast bring some talent into the lineup rather than trotting Mackowiak, Terrero, and Ozuna out there every game.

 

 

There are some key differences...

 

1) We don't have two nearly automatic wins in our rotation with the potency of Santana and Liriano

2) There are three teams for the White Sox to contend with, not two

3) Our bullpen already has more blown saves leading to losses (3) than the Twins had all last year

4) Fields hasn't played LF for more than two weeks

5) There's no obvious "villain" like Tony Batista to release in order to send a message

6) Gardenhire's a slightly better manager than Guillen

[dwalteroo]

You know, I hate to be a complete buzzkill, homer, Hawk-lover right here, but the Twins were 11-18 on May 5th of last year. They won 96 games.

 

I'm not comparing the Twins and Sox, but one of the changes that the Twins made during last year was a change in hitting coaches early on, and they also got rid of their mediocre talent and replaced it with younger talent. In other words, get rid of Walker to light a fire, get Fields up to play LF, get Sweeney in to play RF, and get Dye into the DH spot until Thome comes back. When Thome does come back, demote one of Fields and Sweeney who is doing the worst. It's a long shot to work, but that will atleast bring some talent into the lineup rather than trotting Mackowiak, Terrero, and Ozuna out there every game.

 

Book it. The team needs a fundamental shake up - I say we either do this or get busy with a trade NOW. We can't sit around in our division and wait for things to get better, and we have the opportunity NOW. By the trading dealine, if we aren't in the thick of it, you know they will be looking to sell. Shake this boat, and do it right now. Agreed.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Mr Caulfield is taking a very extreme negative view of this teams chances after just 24 games or so.

A little too early to give up on the season. Some people act like they've never been through an entire baseball season before. I'm as frustrated as anyone about now, but I'm not ready to give up and start thinking about next season after 25 freakin' games! Quitters never win.

[witesoxfan]

I agree with everything except the part about bringing up Fields to play LF.

 

It's really just me throwing a name with talent out there. Owens can run, and that's it, and I'm not about to suggest calling up Anderson until I see him put up 2-3 weeks of .800+ OPS.

 

There are some key differences...

 

1) We don't have two nearly automatic wins in our rotation with the potency of Santana and Liriano

2) There are three teams for the White Sox to contend with, not two

3) Our bullpen already has more blown saves leading to losses (3) than the Twins had all last year

4) Fields hasn't played LF for more than two weeks

5) There's no obvious "villain" like Tony Batista to release in order to send a message

6) Gardenhire's a slightly better manager than Guillen

 

1. Liriano didn't get put into the rotation until May, and he was in the rotation for half a season. Even if he was an automatic win - which he was - that's still just 48 games the Twins won by Santana and Liriano - at the most - and their 9 losses indicate that's not quite the case. Beyond that, the Twins also had Scott Baker (16 GS, 6.37 ERA), Kyle Lohse (8 GS, 7.07 ERA), Matt Garza (9 GS, 5.76 ERA), and Carlos Silva (31 GS, 5.94 ERA).

 

Basically, are you going to tell me that a year and a half worth's of automatic wins is worth more than a rotation that may very well put up a combined ERA of 4.00-4.25? I don't.

 

2. Cleveland was going to contend last year too, and a horrendous June and July knocked them out of the race. Who's to say that won't happen to Detroit or Cleveland or Minnesota this year? Or maybe it's the White Sox? Or maybe no one? You don't know what kind of race it really is going to be until about Memorial Day or Independence Day. I mean, do you expect the Yankees to be in last place all year?

 

3. And what happens if the offense scores 2 more runs in both of those games? Those games aren't losses. You are putting stock into a stat that doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot. Bullpens blow leads, and the White Sox offense has been pathetic to the point where they haven't been able to mount comebacks late in games.

 

4. I'd rather stick him out in LF than Jerry Owens or Luis Terrero, regardless of experience.

 

5. Darin Erstad

 

Seriously though, why is a villain necessary? Do the Sox really need to mimic everything the Twins have ever done at any given stop in any division winning year? If firing Greg Walker isn't enough, trade someone like Mackowiak to send the message. Teams would take him, and while he's valuable, he's not a necessity for this team to succeed.

 

6a. Which is why my plan would never, ever, ever be able to come to fruition.

6b. Ozzie won a World Series, how dare you question him.

[Harry Chappas]

It is going to get worse before it gets better. We may not score a run, a single run this weekend. I do not expect much but I believe they will come out of this and be fine.

 

The pitching is fine. We are missing our 1 and 3 hitters.

 

I do agree with the other thread thought to sign Buerhle and trade Crede or Dye. I think the lack of running ability (not speed) is killing this team and Konerko, AJ and Thome are to viable. We can get good ML return with a Gio and Crede/Dye move or something like that.

[caulfield12]

It is going to get worse before it gets better. We may not score a run, a single run this weekend. I do not expect much but I believe they will come out of this and be fine.

 

The pitching is fine. We are missing our 1 and 3 hitters.

 

I do agree with the other thread thought to sign Buerhle and trade Crede or Dye. I think the lack of running ability (not speed) is killing this team and Konerko, AJ and Thome are to viable. We can get good ML return with a Gio and Crede/Dye move or something like that.

 

 

Another approach would be to trade Dye and Gio for Rich Harden. That would be a franchise-defining move which could backfire horribly or give us the best rotation in baseball and insurance for Contreras and buy a little more time for Danks in AAA...as well as insurance for the possible loss of Buehrle.

[witesoxfan]

Another approach would be to trade Dye and Gio for Rich Harden. That would be a franchise-defining move which could backfire horribly or give us the best rotation in baseball and insurance for Contreras and buy a little more time for Danks in AAA...as well as insurance for the possible loss of Buehrle.

 

No way in hell do I even get near Rich Harden right now. He's been hurt the past 3 years, and that's just not going to suddenly stop.

 

Some team may give up a metric s***-ton for him, but the White Sox would be dumb as hell to.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Another approach would be to trade Dye and Gio for Rich Harden. That would be a franchise-defining move which could backfire horribly or give us the best rotation in baseball and insurance for Contreras and buy a little more time for Danks in AAA...as well as insurance for the possible loss of Buehrle.

Why do you think they need to buy a little more time for Danks in AAA?

 

Gio and Dye is a big price to pay.

[ZoomSlowik]

Why do you think they need to buy a little more time for Danks in AAA?

 

Gio and Dye is a big price to pay.

 

And it probably wouldn't be a package Beane would take anyways. He's not the kind of guy that is going to take a guy for half a year and likely lose him to free agency at the cost of a talented 25 year old starter.

 

IF he were going to try to trade Harden (which I don't buy until he gets down to his last year or so), he'd probably be looking for 3 top prospects or a young major leaguer and another prospect or two.

[Baines3]

I respectfully decline your thesis and request that you fornicate yourself.

No one will give a decent return in trade on a free agent to-be that is Dye's age.

 

I could see trading Crede but I'm not willing to give up on him quite yet.

 

My thoughts exactly! I sure wouldn't trade Crede.

[witesoxfan]

And it probably wouldn't be a package Beane would take anyways. He's not the kind of guy that is going to take a guy for half a year and likely lose him to free agency at the cost of a talented 25 year old starter.

 

IF he were going to try to trade Harden (which I don't buy until he gets down to his last year or so), he'd probably be looking for 3 top prospects or a young major leaguer and another prospect or two.

 

His value might not be there come that time of his contract. Would you give up 1 top prospect, let alone 3, for Mark Prior right now?

 

That's why Beane's investigating a trade. If he can get a trade he's satisfactory with, I've no doubt he'd take it in a second and let the other team hope and pray he can stay healthy.

[Harry Chappas]

My thoughts exactly! I sure wouldn't trade Crede.

 

Joe Crede was hot for the playoffs and he has a very nice glove. If you could get ML ready talent for him, move him in a second. He gives up way to many at bats. His approach at the plate is comparable to many other players in this line-up. Same thing with Dye. I beleive there are other teams that could use these guys that could have excess in other areas. If Bill Hall shows he can play center could you move Crede for him. I am not certain of the numbers on Hall and am only using an example of the type of moves that need to be looked at.