Sign Buehrle, trade Crede and Dye

[caulfield12]

Joe Crede was hot for the playoffs and he has a very nice glove. If you could get ML ready talent for him, move him in a second. He gives up way to many at bats. His approach at the plate is comparable to many other players in this line-up. Same thing with Dye. I beleive there are other teams that could use these guys that could have excess in other areas. If Bill Hall shows he can play center could you move Crede for him. I am not certain of the numbers on Hall and am only using an example of the type of moves that need to be looked at.

 

 

We need a totally different type of player. Hall strikes out too much, he's not a "young" player anymore and we would be weakening what I would have to consider to be another strength, our infield defense. This would end up weakening our pitching staff as well, as Buerhle and Garland tend to give up a lot of groundballs.

[Kalapse]

We need a totally different type of player. Hall strikes out too much, he's not a "young" player anymore and we would be weakening what I would have to consider to be another strength, our infield defense. This would end up weakening our pitching staff as well, as Buerhle and Garland tend to give up a lot of groundballs.

The Brewers also have a big time prospect in Ryan Braun waiting in the wings in AAA (he's been lighting it up down there and should get the call sometime soon), I highly doubt they'd have much interest in Crede anyway.

[caulfield12]

The Brewers also have a big time prospect in Ryan Braun waiting in the wings in AAA (he's been lighting it up down there and should get the call sometime soon), I highly doubt they'd have much interest in Crede anyway.

 

 

And getting rid of Hall and replacing him with a AAA player doesn't really solve any problem...it's like putting one finger in the dike and another hole erupting somewhere else.

 

The Brewers finally have a real chance to compete this year...

[Kalapse]

The Brewers finally have a real chance to compete this year...

They're already 5 games up in the NL Central and aren't even playing at optimal efficiency just yet. Ben Sheets has yet to get it together, Craig Counsel is still the 3B with Braun so damn close to ready for the bigs, they haven't quite figured out the whole outfield situation just yet and some of their younger players have struggled a bit at the plate to start the year. They're damn good and only getting better.

[fathom]

If the A's would give up Harden for Dye and Gio, I'll drive Dye and Gio and thank Jermaine for two historic seasons with the Sox. Dye's going to be gone after this year anyways, and I'll take the chances of Harden staying healthy over Gio doing anything in the majors.

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

The Brewers also have a big time prospect in Ryan Braun waiting in the wings in AAA (he's been lighting it up down there and should get the call sometime soon), I highly doubt they'd have much interest in Crede anyway.

 

The guy I want from the Brewers system I want is Gallardo.

[Texsox]

If the A's would give up Harden for Dye and Gio, I'll drive Dye and Gio and thank Jermaine for two historic seasons with the Sox. Dye's going to be gone after this year anyways, and I'll take the chances of Harden staying healthy over Gio doing anything in the majors.

 

Whose choice, Dye or the teams?

[fathom]

Whose choice, Dye or the teams?

 

Dye will be playing in Texas next year. If he was coming back to the Sox, they would have wrapped up an extension last offseason.

Edited May 3, 2007 by fathom

[Texsox]

Where have I heard a statement like that before?

Oh yeah, with Konerko. It's all speculation, but I think Dye will stay in Chicago as long as he's getting playing time. Texas does seem like the logical next choice.

[Harry Chappas]

We need a totally different type of player. Hall strikes out too much, he's not a "young" player anymore and we would be weakening what I would have to consider to be another strength, our infield defense. This would end up weakening our pitching staff as well, as Buerhle and Garland tend to give up a lot of groundballs.

 

I did not reasearch at all, I was just trying to make a point that a Crede could help a team and we would get back something that we need that a team has excess of without analyzing the numbers. Another example would be something like Buerhle/Crede for A-Rod. I AM NOT GM'ing HERE, just pointing out that there is something we need and there is something other teams need as well.

 

I actually believe KW will give away this season before making any type of move.

[fathom]

Where have I heard a statement like that before?

Oh yeah, with Konerko. It's all speculation, but I think Dye will stay in Chicago as long as he's getting playing time. Texas does seem like the logical next choice.

 

Personally, I think Konerko would have been long gone if not for the magic of 2005.

[heirdog]

There are some key differences...

 

1) We don't have two nearly automatic wins in our rotation with the potency of Santana and Liriano

2) There are three teams for the White Sox to contend with, not two

3) Our bullpen already has more blown saves leading to losses (3) than the Twins had all last year

4) Fields hasn't played LF for more than two weeks

5) There's no obvious "villain" like Tony Batista to release in order to send a message

6) Gardenhire's a slightly better manager than Guillen

 

 

1) We don't have 3 automatic losses either. It all evens out as the 1&2 punch after Liriano came on may have been better for the Twins but the 3-5 for the Sox is better (2 sub 3 ERAs currently and a tough luck 0-4 rookie). At the end, all games count the same whether an Ace is pitching or a AA call-up so we actually have a better chance of winning more games than the Twins.

 

2) Last year at this time, it was not a 3 team race yet...Cleveland was right in the thick of it.

 

3) How many wins did we have this year off the other team's bullpen blowing a save (I bet we are even or plus in that category). This is a meaningless stat. We have a solid bullpen just like the Twins did last year.

 

4) Get an adequate LF (right now, one that can hit preferrably) so whether its Fields or anyone else, it doesn't really matter.

 

5) B.A. was the scapegoat that was sent down! Message: "Hit 2-17 and play only sparingly and we will ship you out!"

 

6) What has Gardenhire won? Not that I disagree but as subjective as that comment is, its really not pertinent in the grand scheme of things. We have a slightly better GM so we can rectify matters more quickly than they could (see: if Guillen can't right the ship...)

[Texsox]

Personally, I think Konerko would have been long gone if not for the magic of 2005.

 

I am certain that had a lot to do with it.

[ZoomSlowik]

His value might not be there come that time of his contract. Would you give up 1 top prospect, let alone 3, for Mark Prior right now?

 

That's why Beane's investigating a trade. If he can get a trade he's satisfactory with, I've no doubt he'd take it in a second and let the other team hope and pray he can stay healthy.

 

Well, he's not at that point yet. His injuries are getting annoying for fantasy leaguers like me, but unlike Prior he can still pitch well when he's healthy. As long as he's not out like all of this season I could still see it, though you've got a point, who knows what his injury situation will be in a few years.

 

I would still think he'd try to get at least someone like Ervin Santana or Mike Pelfrey while he still probably could...

[Balta1701]

Well, he's not at that point yet. His injuries are getting annoying for fantasy leaguers like me, but unlike Prior he can still pitch well when he's healthy. As long as he's not out like all of this season I could still see it, though you've got a point, who knows what his injury situation will be in a few years.

 

I would still think he'd try to get at least someone like Ervin Santana or Mike Pelfrey while he still probably could...

Mike Piazza just went to the DL until sometime in June. Something tells me Mr. Beane is going to be selling, and surprisingly soon.

[Steve9347]

Let's not forget about Gallardo in the brew crew's system.

 

I could definitely see Beane making a play at Pelfrey... but why not Johnny D?! heh.

[whitesoxfan101]

We should have traded Crede after last season when he was at peak value. Some ripped it here, but I stand by what I said which is last year was a career year at the plate for Joe, not a breakout one (big difference). I think Dye is gone for sure, and Buehrle should stay. If we can keep Buehrle, along with having Vazquez and Danks and Garland, plus Gio and Masset as well as Contreras, our SP is in great shape for a while IMO.

 

Who knew? The pitching in our system looks pretty good and we have little offense. So backwards.

[Balta1701]

We should have traded Crede after last season when he was at peak value.

 

On paper you're right, but here's the big question; how much value did he drop because of the recurrence of his back injury at the end of last season?

[whitesoxfan101]

On paper you're right, but here's the big question; how much value did he drop because of the recurrence of his back injury at the end of last season?

 

Not NEARLY as much value was lost due to his back injury as will be lost this year as he is going back to being the hitter he really is, and is a year older and closer to free agency.

[Texsox]

If we continue to trade everyone when they are at "peak value" do you ever win another World Series?

[whitesoxfan101]

If we continue to trade everyone when they are at "peak value" do you ever win another World Series?

 

You don't trade everyone at peak value, hence I didn't want us to trade Dye. However, Crede was at peak value, we would have got more than he was worth in a trade, and although signs point to the contrary this April (which might be why we didn't deal Joe), Fields looked ready late last year. Joe is a late 20's player already with a very bad back who doesn't walk but does strike out and is due for a huge payday soon. We missed a BIG chance to get a coup for him, and that chance is never coming back.

Edited May 3, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[WHITESOXRANDY]

I'm definitely not ready to do anything drastic yet. It was just a week ago that I was thinking that the Sox were looking damn good.

 

Let's wait (I'm sure the Sox will) for Thome, Pods and Hall to come back. And, also for Crede, Konerko and Dye to get hot. The pitching is probably good enough to keep us in the race until then.

 

IF NOT, then in July I would look to trade Crede, Dye AND Buehrle. I would think that those 3 could bring a pretty good bundle in young offensive talent.

 

Crede is a goner for sure. Can you say BORASS ?

 

Dye will most likely leave for more than the Sox will offer him. I still think that if they can get a good deal for him, it's worth the money.

 

I think that Buehrle is expendable now that there is so much good young pitching in the system.

 

The problem is the Sox offense, while having a lot of talent, is disfunctional and the parts don't fit together. Aditionally, there is almost nothing of significant help in the minors as far as everyday players. The Sox may have the worst system in baseball for this. I'd rather it be this way then no pitching.

 

Anyway, I think if they traded these 3 for the best young offensive players they can get, the Sox would be fine.

 

But, I'm still not giving up on this season yet - not even close.

[joeynach]

Book it. The team needs a fundamental shake up - I say we either do this or get busy with a trade NOW. We can't sit around in our division and wait for things to get better, and we have the opportunity NOW. By the trading dealine, if we aren't in the thick of it, you know they will be looking to sell. Shake this boat, and do it right now. Agreed.

 

Exactly the point is you cant afford to sit around and wait for things to get better. You cant sit here and wait for Thome and Pods to come back and give them a couple weeks to get back in a rhythm and just hope everything will be ok. Heck by the time that happens, if it happens, this team might be 12 games out. If you want survive at least for this year you need to do something now. The Mack/Ozuna/Cintron/Terrero circus isn't an answer its not going to prevent us from dipping below .500. The only thing you can do is add some life to the lineup, new talented excited life. Bring up Fields and Owens, and along with Sweeney get these guys moving. Then get Pods and Thome back and hit the ground running in a lineup that is already kicking. If you just try and survive and wait until Pods and Thome get back most likely it will just be too late, it always works out that way.

[Steve9347]

Exactly the point is you cant afford to sit around and wait for things to get better. You cant sit here and wait for Thome and Pods to come back and give them a couple weeks to get back in a rhythm and just hope everything will be ok. Heck by the time that happens, if it happens, this team might be 12 games out. If you want survive at least for this year you need to do something now. The Mack/Ozuna/Cintron/Terrero circus isn't an answer its not going to prevent us from dipping below .500. The only thing you can do is add some life to the lineup, new talented excited life. Bring up Fields and Owens, and along with Sweeney get these guys moving. Then get Pods and Thome back and hit the ground running in a lineup that is already kicking. If you just try and survive and wait until Pods and Thome get back most likely it will just be too late, it always works out that way.

 

 

Problem is, everytime we depend on a young hitter, at least lately, they don't do anything (see Sweeney's 0-fer since being called up, or Anderson last year)... some teams have the studs in AAA, others don't.

 

We seem to be the latter.

 

The last thing this team needs is another guy who'll hit .220-.240 and swing for the fences all day (ala Josh Fields)... if anything, call up Owens, like you said, and let him run wild.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

So, bench Crede for Fields ? And, bench Erstad for Sweeney and play Owens in left ?

 

And, then when these guys do nothing - which is very likely, what do you do then ?

 

I'm sorry but Fields, Owens and Sweeney are not AROD, Jeter and Giambi.

 

There is almost no help in the system.

 

Fields might produce about the same as Crede has and I haven't seen any reaosn to believe that Sweeney and Owens would be any better than what we've had.

 

I think a good shakeup would be to trade Crede right now for a big hitting outfielder - righthanded. Bring up Fields and give him the job permanently. Then let's see what happens. Because you have to trade Crede anyway.

Edited May 3, 2007 by WHITESOXRANDY