So the fans were whining about this in the offseason?

[sox-r-us]

Brandon McCarthy:

 

2-4; 7.96 ERA; 23 ER; 4 HR; 14 BB; 13 SO

 

Freddie Garcia (and this is in the NL):

 

1-2; 5.33 ERA; 15 ER; 3 HR; 6 BB; 21 SO

 

Maybe Kenny knew what he was doing? Would these guys have helped us any this year?

 

PS: Not trying to flame anyone here; just an observation that those trades do not look that bad now do they?>

[DBAHO]

Still early days for Freddy, seems to be getting a bit better with each start but the longest he's gone is 6IP. Right now only Gio is making that trade seem a win on our end, although Floyd is still young if he can ever get it together.

 

B-Mac on the other hand is probably pitching in the worst ballpark there is for him. He was always going to struggle in Texas, and the Rangers really need to have more groundball pitchers. He can still be a very good pitcher in the big leagues, I have no doubts about that, but getting Danks and Massett for him seems like a win for us, even though it's still very early days.

[fathom]

The fact Garcia is healthy right now and not giving up 10 runs every start justifies the whining on that awful trade.

[Kyyle23]

Is Freddy healthy? I saw the highlights of his golfcart mishap. The knot on his shin was UGLY.

[Texsox]

If we waited to see what happens, this would be a very boring site. Part of being an avid fan is playing armchair GM, manager, hitting coach, etc. Like K-Dub, sometimes you are right, sometimes you are wrong.

[caulfield12]

The fact Garcia is healthy right now and not giving up 10 runs every start justifies the whining on that awful trade.

 

The 6 IP, 2 ER outing last night was his best so far.

 

He has been throwing 89-92 pretty consistently this year, when I've watched him. He's picked it up a little more than I thought he would, but his stats should be better with his stuff in the NL.

 

That we have Gonzalez and Floyd is better than waiting 2-3 more years for compensation picks to develop.

 

Also, does anyone think the Freddy would be a disaster these last 2-3 weeks with our offense? He'd be pointing fingers...saying he did enough to get the win....that he's only motivated by big games. At any rate, I wouldn't want to pair Garcia's attitude problems with our anemic offense. It's a bad recipe. The way he has pitched, he would have the same record as Danks but 10X more clubhouse issues.

 

And the Angels would have recorded 5-6 steals against him in one game.

[RockRaines]

The fact Garcia is healthy right now and not giving up 10 runs every start justifies the whining on that awful trade.

How about the fact that he is NOT healthy and has a horrid ERA for the NL?

[fathom]

How about the fact that he is NOT healthy and has a horrid ERA for the NL?

 

He looks healthier right now than he did last year. Heck, I even saw his fastball reach 91 mph on ESPN last week. If he's considered to not be healthy, then Contreras can't be considered healthy either. Garcia's K rate is vastly improved this year, but that might be due to the NL hitters not seeing him before.

 

The 6 IP, 2 ER outing last night was his best so far.

 

He has been throwing 89-92 pretty consistently this year, when I've watched him. He's picked it up a little more than I thought he would, but his stats should be better with his stuff in the NL.

 

That we have Gonzalez and Floyd is better than waiting 2-3 more years for compensation picks to develop.

 

Also, does anyone think the Freddy would be a disaster these last 2-3 weeks with our offense? He'd be pointing fingers...saying he did enough to get the win....that he's only motivated by big games. At any rate, I wouldn't want to pair Garcia's attitude problems with our anemic offense. It's a bad recipe. The way he has pitched, he would have the same record as Danks but 10X more clubhouse issues.

 

And the Angels would have recorded 5-6 steals against him in one game.

 

I think we all wanted him traded. However, the rationale that some people used around here that we won that trade based solely on the fact that Garcia was too injured to ever start again in the majors has been proven wrong.

[whitesoxfan101]

Other than the lack of talent we got back for Freddy, I'm not sure what fan with a brain was whining about those moves.

[striker]

Event if Gio and Gavin don't pan out, getting rid of Freddy was addition by subtraction. He might be a .500 pitcher but he's not a #1 like he used to be.

[Rowand44]

The problem people had with the Freddy trade was the fact that most thought we didn't get enough back in return. I don't think many people were too upset that we got rid of Freddy.

 

As for Brandon, I know personally I just didn't want to give him up, that's what made me a tad upset with that trade and I think in general people were just confused on that trade. I'm happy as all hell with that deal right now, as so far we've obviously gotten the better end.

 

I will say that it's still far far far far too early to look back on these deals, it's going to take years to see how they really pan out.

Edited May 8, 2007 by Rowand44

[fathom]

Event if Gio and Gavin don't pan out, getting rid of Freddy was addition by subtraction. He might be a .500 pitcher but he's not a #1 like he used to be.

 

So you'd be happy if we traded a starting pitcher that resulted in no major league contributions in return?

[CWSGuy406]

Heck, I even saw his fastball reach 91 mph on ESPN last week.

 

The same ESPN gun that had Miguel Batista's two seamer running at 95 yesterday? The same gun that had Batista's fastball consistently in the high-90s and guys like Dice-K touching 99? Sorry, that gun's more of a joke than the Comcast reading.

 

I can understand people being pissed at KW's infatuation with Gavin Floyd, but overall, I don't think the return was awful. With a good year, Gio will re-affirm his spot as a very-good-but-not-elite prospect that he had coming into last year.

 

It certainly wasn't an awful trade, though. If we even get one year of league average starting pitching (at the major league level, of course) from Floyd or Gio, the trade will be a wash, and anything more, the Sox move in front.

Edited May 8, 2007 by CWSGuy406

[Jim Spencer]

Brandon McCarthy:

 

2-4; 7.96 ERA; 23 ER; 4 HR; 14 BB; 13 SO

 

Freddie Garcia (and this is in the NL):

 

1-2; 5.33 ERA; 15 ER; 3 HR; 6 BB; 21 SO

 

Maybe Kenny knew what he was doing? Would these guys have helped us any this year?

 

PS: Not trying to flame anyone here; just an observation that those trades do not look that bad now do they?>

 

I'd take Chris Stewart and his .222 Avg. over Molina as a back-up right now

[iamshack]

Gio is looking pretty damn good in Birmingham right now...let's give it at least a bit longer to judge this thing. What happens with him is ultimately how this trade gets judged.

[joeynach]

I think KW and the sox organization, including medical know exactly when its time to get rid of somebody. Mike sirotka, Jim Parque, Jason Bere, Jim Baldwin, Cal Eldred, they knew about these guys. Even the big hurt. The

 

McCarthy thing to me was more of a funtion of the type of pitcher he was, a flyball pitcher, which is very bad in our ballpark. Plus I think his inability to really develop or showcase any type of variation of a pitch or throw a new pitch consistently, led to his falling out of favor. After all Bmac only threw an average 4 seam fastball around 90 mph, a good curveball (but a flyball pitch), and a below average change up, thats it. Sorry not gonna get the job done over the long haul.

 

As for Freddy I think it was pretty obvious he was nearing the end of his effective pitching career. He lost close to 5 to 6 mph on his fastball and become a sort of junk baller. He couldnt challenge anyone with his 86-88 mph 4 seamer and his 2 seamer was OK. He started throwing a ton of changeups, splitters,sliders where he used to throw a 93-95 4 seam, 2 seam, overhand curve. His strikeout rate was down tremendous and his whip was up. The key thing was that in order to rear back and throw a 92 mph fastball he would leave pitches high in the zone that would get crushed, hes doin the same this year. Also, he couldn't hold anybody on base. All and all thats not the type of pitcher really anyone should want in their rotation. It was just flat out time to leave.

[fathom]

McCarthy thing to me was more of a funtion of the type of pitcher he was, a flyball pitcher, which is very bad in our ballpark. Plus I think his inability to really develop or showcase any type of variation of a pitch or throw a new pitch consistently, led to his falling out of favor. After all Bmac only threw an average 4 seam fastball around 90 mph, a good curveball (but a flyball pitch), and an average change up, thats it. Sorry not gonna get the job done over the long haul.

 

Isn't this the exact type of pitcher that Danks is in terms of stuff?

Edited May 8, 2007 by fathom

[joeynach]

The 6 IP, 2 ER outing last night was his best so far.

 

He has been throwing 89-92 pretty consistently this year, when I've watched him. He's picked it up a little more than I thought he would, but his stats should be better with his stuff in the NL.

 

That we have Gonzalez and Floyd is better than waiting 2-3 more years for compensation picks to develop.

 

Also, does anyone think the Freddy would be a disaster these last 2-3 weeks with our offense? He'd be pointing fingers...saying he did enough to get the win....that he's only motivated by big games. At any rate, I wouldn't want to pair Garcia's attitude problems with our anemic offense. It's a bad recipe. The way he has pitched, he would have the same record as Danks but 10X more clubhouse issues.

 

And the Angels would have recorded 5-6 steals against him in one game.

 

On the sunday night game last week against the braves, which he lost, the announcers were noting his velocity problems. Basically they were saying that since hes become a guy who throws 87-89 mph now when he tries to dial it up and reach back for a little extra to hit 92 he is leaving the ball up over the plate and its getting hammered. There point was when he was throwing 92-94 consistently and reaching back for 95-97 he could get away with that because hes blowing people away and they couldn't catch up regardless. The new Freddy, the one thats here to stay, is a junkballer now thats cant throw as hard as he used to.

[StrangeSox]

As for Freddy I think it was pretty obvious he was nearing the end of his effective pitching career. He lost close to 5 to 6 mph on his fastball and become a sort of junk baller. He couldnt challenge anyone with his 86-88 mph 4 seamer and his 2 seamer was OK. He started throwing a ton of changeups, splitters,sliders where he used to throw a 93-95 4 seam, 2 seam, overhand curve. His strikeout rate was down tremendous and his whip was up. The key thing was that in order to rear back and throw a 92 mph fastball he would leave pitches high in the zone that would get crushed, hes doin the same this year. Also, he couldn't hold anybody on base. All and all thats not the type of pitcher really anyone should want in their rotation. It was just flat out time to leave.

 

I don't think anyone disagrees with that. A lot of people just thought that KW should have gotten more for him. Maybe other GM's just realized what Freddy was/ is.

Edited May 8, 2007 by StrangeSox

[joeynach]

Isn't this the exact type of pitcher that Danks is in terms of stuff?

 

First of all I believe danks throws 90+ consistently with a better change up. I remember seeing McCarthy mainly around 89 with the occasional 90 perhaps 91. I think Danks doesn't quite have the 12-6 curve with the over the top delivery his to me looks more like slurve with a lower arm angle that just by defualt keep the ball lower in the zone. Whatever the case his breaking ball is one breaks lower down in the zone where if McCarthy's was perfect yes it broke from the shoulders to the knees, but most pitches aren't perfect. McCarthy was kind of a no frills standard Righty, and even his change up was like a meatball coming in belt high.

Edited May 8, 2007 by joeynach

[fathom]

First of all I believe danks throws 90+ consistently with a better change up. I remember seeing McCarthy mainly around 89 with the occasional 90 perhaps 91. I think Danks doesn't quite have the 12-6 over the top curve his to me looks more like slurve or perhaps tighter breaking ball that IMO breaks further down in the zone. Plus hes LH. McCarthy was kind of a no frills standard Righty, and even his change up was like a meatball coming in belt high.

 

McCarthy's fastball is probably one to two mph faster on a consistent basis than Danks. I do like Danks potential a lot more than McCarthy now, but to say that we got rid of McCarthy due to him being a fly ball pitcher is wrong with Danks previous history allowing the long ball.

 

On the sunday night game last week against the braves, which he lost, the announcers were noting his velocity problems. Basically they were saying that since hes become a guy who throws 87-89 mph now when he tries to dial it up and reach back for a little extra to hit 92 he is leaving the ball up over the plate and its getting hammered. There point was when he was throwing 92-94 consistently and reaching back for 95-97 he could get away with that because hes blowing people away and they couldn't catch up regardless. The new Freddy, the one thats here to stay, is a junkballer now thats cant throw as hard as he used to.

 

I don't think Garcia ever reached 95 mph when he was with the Sox. I can't recall him throwing fastballs past hitters since he joined the team 4 years ago. Nearly every strikeout he had was on an offspeed pitch.

[joeynach]

McCarthy's fastball is probably one to two mph faster on a consistent basis than Danks. I do like Danks potential a lot more than McCarthy now, but to say that we got rid of McCarthy due to him being a fly ball pitcher is wrong with Danks previous history allowing the long ball.

I don't think Garcia ever reached 95 mph when he was with the Sox. I can't recall him throwing fastballs past hitters since he joined the team 4 years ago. Nearly every strikeout he had was on an offspeed pitch.

 

I remember in 2004 freddy being a consistent 93-94 guy. And I believe he was always 93-95 with the M's prior to the sox. As for BMac, IMO, it was really his arm angle and delivery method which I believe just wasn't good enough to pitch in the toughest division and league in baseball. It was very standard very over the top and very plain and I think that caused his 2 seamer to never develop or fail when he tried with coop. Plus I think it led to a very flat 4 seamer and change up as well that currently haunts him.

Edited May 8, 2007 by joeynach

[RME JICO]

I still think it is too early to assess the trades this offseason completely.

 

The Danks-BMac trade looks like a great deal, especially when you consider Masset is part of the deal. I wouldn't completely discount BMac just yet, he did have a solid outing vs TOR (6IP, 2H, 1ER).

 

The Freddy Garcia trade is still questionable. Gio makes the deal pretty good, but the jury is still out on Floyd. Freddy has a pretty solid K:BB ratio, so if he can keep that up, his other numbers should fall over time (ERA, WHIP). Now just think if we got Rowand back instead of Floyd in that deal (I know, I know).

[Steve9347]

I never had an issue with either trade...

[Kalapse]

Danks 6HR/28.7IP

 

BMac 4HR/26IP