So the fans were whining about this in the offseason?

[caulfield12]

He could have very well believed that with Garcia struggling to hit the 85 mph mark, that we would be better with Gavin Floyd in the rotation. If you want to discount the McCarthy trade completely, you could also say Kenny thought we would be a better team with McCarthy in the rotation over Garcia.

 

How is either one of those a lie? Its a subjective opinion that you don't agree with.

 

Some are convinced we would have won with Rowand instead of Thome last year (HA, HA!!!) or that we should kept Thomas over Thome...

 

And you'll never convince anyone otherwise, we're already set in our opinions...BA/Ozzie, BA/Erstad, Ozzie as a manager. It doesn't matter what the argument. Last year, it was "Dark Clouds" who felt the season was getting away in July and August and those who could never be convinced that 2006 was a different year.

 

It reminds me of all those faithful who believed the tech stocks would return to their previous values, versus the people who took their losses but reallocated their money into investments that have done much better since 00-02 because they knew when to cut their losses.

 

Ultimately, KW has to have a feel for this...7 1/2 to 9 games out in the first or second week of June and behind 3 teams, we have to be in a selling mode.

[fathom]

He could have very well believed that with Garcia struggling to hit the 85 mph mark, that we would be better with Gavin Floyd in the rotation. If you want to discount the McCarthy trade completely, you could also say Kenny thought we would be a better team with McCarthy in the rotation over Garcia.

 

How is either one of those a lie? Its a subjective opinion that you don't agree with.

 

Well, Garcia is at the 90 mph mark right now, so he made a gross error in judgement if he didn't think Garcia would be healthy enough to pitch in the majors this year. When KW made the Garcia trade, he had no clue that the McCarthy trade would occur. He's even said as much. The simple point I'm making is that the Garcia trade, in regards to the people who we acquired, won't do s*** to help the team in 2007.

[caulfield12]

Well, Garcia is at the 90 mph mark right now, so he made a gross error in judgement if he didn't think Garcia would be healthy enough to pitch in the majors this year. When KW made the Garcia trade, he had no clue that the McCarthy trade would occur. He's even said as much. The simple point I'm making is that the Garcia trade, in regards to the people who we acquired, won't do s*** to help the team in 2007.

 

 

I think the main argument was that Garcia = or

Edited May 9, 2007 by caulfield12

[fathom]

I think the main argument was that Garcia = or

 

And like you mentioned, we never really used the savings from getting rid of Garcia in terms of bringing in free agent/trade talent money wise.

[southsider2k5]

Well, Garcia is at the 90 mph mark right now, so he made a gross error in judgement if he didn't think Garcia would be healthy enough to pitch in the majors this year. When KW made the Garcia trade, he had no clue that the McCarthy trade would occur. He's even said as much. The simple point I'm making is that the Garcia trade, in regards to the people who we acquired, won't do s*** to help the team in 2007.

 

Ah, now see hindsight is a different story, because then we can introduce the Danks/McCarthy/Massett deal into the equation. If you want to look at it at that moment, we have to look at the deal at that moment.

 

At that moment, Garcia had gone from a mid 90's pitcher to a mid 80's pitcher, who had to come up with a trick pitch to even be respectable. Brandon McCarthy was pretty universally accepted to be a better pitcher than Garcia at that time, so how is putting McCarthy into the rotation for Garcia, while getting two high level prospects, making the team worse in 2007 at that time?

 

You can argue that Kenny Williams was wrong, but you can't call him a liar. Its a pretty reasonable assumption to feel that Brandon McCarthy would pitch better than Freddy Garcia in 2007, at that time, and its even more so when you add Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez to that mix, as potential candidates if Bmac hadn't have succeeded.

[fathom]

Ah, now see hindsight is a different story, because then we can introduce the Danks/McCarthy/Massett deal into the equation. If you want to look at it at that moment, we have to look at the deal at that moment.

 

At that moment, Garcia had gone from a mid 90's pitcher to a mid 80's pitcher, who had to come up with a trick pitch to even be respectable. Brandon McCarthy was pretty universally accepted to be a better pitcher than Garcia at that time, so how is putting McCarthy into the rotation for Garcia, while getting two high level prospects, making the team worse in 2007 at that time?

 

You can argue that Kenny Williams was wrong, but you can't call him a liar. Its a pretty reasonable assumption to feel that Brandon McCarthy would pitch better than Freddy Garcia in 2007, at that time, and its even more so when you add Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez to that mix, as potential candidates if Bmac hadn't have succeeded.

 

Because he flat out lied about what it would take for him to give up one of our starting pitchers last offseason....that being players that could contribute to our 2007 team (the last chance at glory for the next few years). And please don't refer to Gavin Floyd as a high level prospect....he kinda reminds me of the pitching version of Joe Borchard.

[DBAHO]

And like you mentioned, we never really used the savings from getting rid of Garcia in terms of bringing in free agent/trade talent money wise.

Well considering the money players were getting in Free Agency in the off-season, and the raises for Sox players that had to be accounted for, I don't really find that suprising. Especially considering the Sox have 3 key free agents to re-sign in theis upcoming off-season, if they had to save a little payroll this season to give themselves a better chance of re-signing those guys in this off-season (depending if we're competitive this season), I don't mind that at all.

 

To me KW sort of backtracked and changed his mode of thinking here. He "originally" thought that he wasn't going to trade Garcia unless he got someone that would help in 2007. However, once he saw how much free agents were getting, and the cost it would take to trade Garcia for someone who can help in 2007, he decided to get some much needed young pitching.

 

Now yes Floyd you can argue hasn't been a good pickup so far, but there's still plenty of time for him, he's had some decent starts down at Charlotte nonetheless. But Gio is looking like a good pickup so far you have to admit.

[fathom]

Now yes Floyd you can argue hasn't been a good pickup so far, but there's still plenty of time for him, he's had some decent starts down at Charlotte nonetheless. But Gio is looking like a good pickup so far you have to admit.

 

Gio seems solid so far, but he is repeating AA. I'm not ready to pencil him into the #3 position in our rotation for years to come though. No matter how anyone slices it, KW didn't get the type of value back for Garcia like he thought he would.