Thats a dont walk him loser

[chisox72]

I know you don't want to burn out Javy's arm, but at a divisional rival, you have to let Javy pitch, IMO. I am a big supporter in letting the pitchers pitch, and I really felt this was one of those times. Send him out to begin the 8th, and see what happens. Let him have maybe 10-13 more pitches, with Mac and Thornton warming up behind him. If he throws a lot of pitches or struggles a little, then take him out. If not, let him finish the inning. And then put Bobby in the 9th. Javy pitched fabulous tonight.

 

But I don't blame this on Ozzie at all. When the team has a 4-1 lead going into the eight, it nobody to blame but the players. Sure some of the IBB's were questionable, but this wasn't Ozzie's fault at all. He wasn't the one who left a cookie belly-button high to Morneu.

 

I am with you on this one. He should have been let to start the 8th at least. He was dealing.

 

This whole loss was a f***ing joke, and I am trying to get myself used to a season of them. There is no reason in the world we had to use EVERY bullpen pitcher we have, save for a few, in this game. Between poor managerial decisions and inept execution, this game was a clusterf*** from the 8th on.

 

Its getting old. They had this game signed, sealed, and delivered, despite the 800 hanging curveball's that Bonser threw up there. There was no reason to lose this one.

[southsider2k5]

Javy was only at 107 and was dealing. I know 107 might be a little too much, but he should have at least started the 8th, and if he got up around the 120 mark, then taken out.

 

OK now that is just hilarious. It wasn't too long ago that everyone would have been screaming because Ozzie didn't take Vaz out after the 5th inning, now he is supposed to let him go over 110 pitches? LMAO.

[BearSox]

OK now that is just hilarious. It wasn't too long ago that everyone would have been screaming because Ozzie didn't take Vaz out after the 5th inning, now he is supposed to let him go over 110 pitches? LMAO.

Vazquez was dealing. You let your pitcher pitch. He has been argueably the teams best pitcher, and when you are facing a divisional rival, you should let the pitcher stay in.

 

Vazquez sucking in the 5th+ was last year, but this is this year. I guarentee you that Vazquez didn't want to be taken out, and I doubt him throwing an extra 10-13 pitches would effect him as when you are dealing, you are dealing.

 

The thing is, pitchers are being babied in todays game. To try and prevent arm injury, teams get scared when a pitcher pitches a lot, but the reality is, most of the time, a pitcher can throw 120+ without getting injured. Hell, in college the pitchers could throw 150+ pitches in a game.

 

I am a firm believer of letting your starter start. Javy was dealing, his pitch count wasn't that high, and it was against a divisional rival. If we were facing someone like the Rangers, I'd probably agree with you, but we weren't.

[RockRaines]

OK now that is just hilarious. It wasn't too long ago that everyone would have been screaming because Ozzie didn't take Vaz out after the 5th inning, now he is supposed to let him go over 110 pitches? LMAO.

Soxtalk logic:

 

If a specific player gets beat, its Ozzie's fault.

 

 

 

I am with you on this one. He should have been let to start the 8th at least. He was dealing.

 

This whole loss was a f***ing joke, and I am trying to get myself used to a season of them. There is no reason in the world we had to use EVERY bullpen pitcher we have, save for a few, in this game. Between poor managerial decisions and inept execution, this game was a clusterf*** from the 8th on.

He wouldnt have had to use so many pitchers if they had been effective. I wonder if the Twins fans think that Gardy used too many arms in that win?

[BigSqwert]

I hate Ozzie Guillen. Thanks for ruining my night, asshole.

That pretty much summed up my feelings as I went to bed last night.

[elrockinMT]

I am praying that someone asks Ozzie why he didn't walk Morneau to get to Cirillo for the more ideal Righty vs. Righty match up.

 

The terrible managing in this loss bothers me a lot more than Iguchi's performance and the bullpen tonight.

 

He always said he manages from his "gut." It was really grumbling and groaning last night apparently. Bottom line is the players didn't perform again.

[LVSoxFan]

Help me out here: I don't remember in 2005 all these in and out pitching changes with the bullpen. This guy vs. that batter for one out, then another guy vs. that batter, then another switch, and so forth.

 

Am I imagining this? It almost seems comical to me how many pitching changes we make when the bullpen comes out.

 

I thought in 2005 guys pretty much were left in to strike out the right AND left-handed batters.

[Controlled Chaos]

OK now that is just hilarious. It wasn't too long ago that everyone would have been screaming because Ozzie didn't take Vaz out after the 5th inning, now he is supposed to let him go over 110 pitches? LMAO.

Yeah that to me is just hindsight second guessing. It's different when Ozzie doesn't make the smart or correct "baseball" decision and he is second guessed. But Javy was over 100 pitches when he came out for the 7th...Sitting Javy for the 8th was the right call....In fact if Ozzie brought him out for the 8th, then I would have been like WTF is he doing....one of those gut things again that mkes no sense??

[Balance]

I'm putting most of the blame on MacDougal. The whole collapse started with one of those patented Twins el cheapo singles, but MacDougal crapped the bed after that.

 

I really felt that the game was over when the Sox lost the lead in the 8th. You have to hold a 4-1 lead late in the game. You have to win this game in that situation. If you don't win in this situation, you're not showing me any signs that you'll be playing come October.

[StrangeSox]

Yep, MacDougal definitely gets the majority of the blame for this one.

[Hideaway Lights]

I am just absolutely dumbfounded at this board's general inclination to blame ozzie for absolutely everything wrong, and give him absolutely none of the credit when things go right. Yes, he makes some bad in-game decisions. It's a dead horse already.

 

I place 100% of the blame on Mike MacDougal. Up 4-1 in the eighth, the bullpen has got to perform in that situation. We should have never even been in the Morneau situation in the first place. Who got us there? Mike MacDougal.

 

I'm sorry, but tied 4-4 in extras at the metrodome, if you honestly thought we had a good chance to win that game no matter what the situation, give me some of what you're smoking. I chalked that one up as a loss as soon as we headed to extras.

 

Some of you are making it seem like we automatically won the game had morneau been intentionally walked.

[AirScott]

Why didn't he have Dye playing deep to prevent Bartlett from getting an extra base hit? Pretty textbook managing there.

Yes, it's easy to say that in retrospect.

 

But as the game is going on, um...well...you don't move your outfield back for Jason Bartlett, he of the .358 career slugging percentage.

 

Unless you're being sarcastic. I don't know, I can't tell here anymore. I lot seems ridiculous.

[southsider2k5]

I'm putting most of the blame on MacDougal. The whole collapse started with one of those patented Twins el cheapo singles, but MacDougal crapped the bed after that.

 

I really felt that the game was over when the Sox lost the lead in the 8th. You have to hold a 4-1 lead late in the game. You have to win this game in that situation. If you don't win in this situation, you're not showing me any signs that you'll be playing come October.

 

One interesting thing I read, is that Konerko swears he tagged the player on the first hit in the eight inning, but the umpire missed it. So how differently does the inning turn out if there is one out and no one on?

[southsideirish71]

One interesting thing I read, is that Konerko swears he tagged the player on the first hit in the eight inning, but the umpire missed it. So how differently does the inning turn out if there is one out and no one on?

 

Thats a hard play for an ump to get right. The sweeping tag when he and the runner shield the ump. The big problem with that was the poor feed by Iguchi. He short armed the throw and it sailed up the line causing Konerko to come off the bag and try a swipe tag.

[jackie hayes]

I'm sorry, but tied 4-4 in extras at the metrodome, if you honestly thought we had a good chance to win that game no matter what the situation, give me some of what you're smoking. I chalked that one up as a loss as soon as we headed to extras.

Good point. It's basically impossible to win a tie game. I'm just angry that Ozzie didn't forfeit on the spot and at least spare the bullpen.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

It's basically impossible to win a tie game.

 

with the way the offense is going right now and with the twins pen it sure did seem like it

we prolly coulda played another 5 innings and not scored a run

[knightni]

with the way the offense is going right now and with the twins pen it sure did seem like it

we prolly coulda played another 5 innings and not scored a run

You really should change your screenname.

 

It's so oxymoronic at this point.

 

[witesoxfan]

with the way the offense is going right now and with the twins pen it sure did seem like it

we prolly coulda played another 5 innings and not scored a run

 

You mean Nathan leaving fat pitches over the plate and hanging breaking balls left and right?

 

Yeah, it's sure hard to hit that.

[Balance]

One interesting thing I read, is that Konerko swears he tagged the player on the first hit in the eight inning, but the umpire missed it. So how differently does the inning turn out if there is one out and no one on?

At least from seeing it on TV, it wasn't possible to tell whether Paulie got him with the tag or not. Iguchi's throw pulled Konerko way off the bag, so they weren't exactly going to get the benefit of the doubt on the call....

[The Ginger Kid]

On the bright side, that's twice Javy has dominated the twinkies this year.

 

13.2 IP, 5 hits, ER, 5 BB, 12 K's, 0.68 ERA

 

now, if we can just match him up against santana...

[StrangeSox]

On the bright side, that's twice Javy has dominated the twinkies this year.

 

13.2 IP, 5 hits, ER, 5 BB, 12 K's, 0.68 ERA

 

now, if we can just match him up against santana...

 

If there's one big positive from yesterday's game, that's it. Javy appears to be over his "3rd time through" troubles of last year.