If we were to upgrade the offense

[BearSox]

First off, this is hypothetical as it seems like KW and Ozzie aren't going to try and upgrade this team...

 

But if we were, how would we do it? Sweeney would stay in LF, and Erstad would stay in CF. You aren't going to trade or bench Konerko for obvious reasons. And even if you were going to trade him, you wouldn't be able to get anything from him. And guys who would probably be on the market like Dye and Crede, they won't fetch anything via trade either.

 

Uribe and Pierzynski have been doing good so far, so no need to change them. The only spot I can honestly see us having a shot at upgrading is 2B. Iguchi looks like he has lost it. Everyone else looks like they forgot how to hit, but Iguchi looks like he forgot the whole game of baseball. If we can get someone like Aybar for 2B, that could be a nice spark.

 

Thoughts?

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

It's hard to make trades this early. If the M's fall out of the race Ichiro will be available but Bavasi would be asking a lot (although KW has raped him twice).

[southsideirish71]

First off, this is hypothetical as it seems like KW and Ozzie aren't going to try and upgrade this team...

 

But if we were, how would we do it? Sweeney would stay in LF, and Erstad would stay in CF. You aren't going to trade or bench Konerko for obvious reasons. And even if you were going to trade him, you wouldn't be able to get anything from him. And guys who would probably be on the market like Dye and Crede, they won't fetch anything via trade either.

 

Uribe and Pierzynski have been doing good so far, so no need to change them. The only spot I can honestly see us having a shot at upgrading is 2B. Iguchi looks like he has lost it. Everyone else looks like they forgot how to hit, but Iguchi looks like he forgot the whole game of baseball. If we can get someone like Aybar for 2B, that could be a nice spark.

 

Thoughts?

 

This is the first time in a long time I cant see any noticeable fixes out in the MLB. The only thing I can see is if we could get Crawford. That would help. But that would cost Danks and possibly everything in AA.

[Gregory Pratt]

You know, I wonder if Crede for Willits straight-up could've been done in the offseason. I'd have done it. Or Crede + something for Willits and Figgins.

 

Dye to the Dodgers. Dye to anyone would've been good.

 

This team is too slow. Period. Konerko can't be moved for political reasons; Thome can't be moved for his NTC.

[fathom]

You know, I wonder if Crede for Willits straight-up could've been done in the offseason. I'd have done it. Or Crede + something for Willits and Figgins.

 

Dye to the Dodgers. Dye to anyone would've been good.

 

This team is too slow. Period. Konerko can't be moved for political reasons; Thome can't be moved for his NTC.

 

Crede for Willits would have been one of the dumbest trades in the history of sports. Willits isn't young....and trust me when I say we want nothing to do with Chone. He's one of the more overrated players in baseball. We need less grinders, and more skilled players.

Edited May 14, 2007 by fathom

[Gregory Pratt]

Crede for Willits would have been one of the dumbest trades in the history of sports. Willits isn't young....and trust me when I say we want nothing to do with Chone. He's one of the more overrated players in baseball.

 

I'd definitely take either of them over Crede pops up. I've never had faith in him as a player. I've always thought last year was a fluke. I'm not surprised to see him revert.

 

I'm looking for speed in our lineup. Contact. Not bumbling sluggers, which Crede isn't good enough to be considered.

 

As for Willits: he'll be twenty six this month. That's young.

 

On paper, Lee for Podsednik is one of the dumbest moves in the history of sports, too.

[southsideirish71]

You know, I wonder if Crede for Willits straight-up could've been done in the offseason. I'd have done it. Or Crede + something for Willits and Figgins.

 

Dye to the Dodgers. Dye to anyone would've been good.

 

This team is too slow. Period. Konerko can't be moved for political reasons; Thome can't be moved for his NTC.

 

Here is the problem with the lets move Dye because he is in a walk year and he is hitting poor. He is hitting poor. So what does a sub 230 hitting guy in his walk year call for as far as moveable talent. Do you think that someone is going to give us major league ready talent, or top prospects. No. This overall slump is a double edged sword. It screws us a team for performance reasons, and it messes their trade value.

[Gregory Pratt]

Here is the problem with the lets move Dye because he is in a walk year and he is hitting poor. He is hitting poor. So what does a sub 230 hitting guy in his walk year call for as far as moveable talent. Do you think that someone is going to give us major league ready talent, or top prospects. No. This overall slump is a double edged sword. It screws us a team for performance reasons, and it messes their trade value.

 

I wanted Dye gone in the offseason. Maximize his value.

[fathom]

I'd definitely take either of them over Crede pops up. I've never had faith in him as a player. I've always thought last year was a fluke. I'm not surprised to see him revert.

 

I'm looking for speed in our lineup. Contact. Not bumbling sluggers, which Crede isn't good enough to be considered.

 

As for Willits: he'll be twenty six this month. That's young.

 

On paper, Lee for Podsednik is one of the dumbest moves in the history of sports, too.

 

Lee for Pods was a horrible, horrible trade. The only saving grace was that it freed up payroll. The only way we should have traded Crede in the offseason is if we could get a MLB caliber player who could be a cornerstone of the franchise for the next 5 years. I'd be content if I never have to hear about another Angels prospect on this site again. They seem rather overrated.

[CWSGuy406]

If we can get someone like Aybar for 2B, that could be a nice spark.

 

Oh yeah, Erick Aybar is going to be that spark -- the guy who put up a .283/.327/.413 line in the freakin' PCL last year.

 

We're going to live-and-die with most of the guys on this team -- this includes Pierzynski, Konerko, Uribe, Crede, Dye and Thome. That leaves three spots -- 2B, LF and CF. Who is available at 2B who is going to be a big upgrade over Iguchi? Iguchi will probably hit at some point -- his defense will still suck, but he'll eventually hit better.

 

That leaves the two OF spots. All the options I can think of are going to be costly. Baldelli is going to cost the Sox Gio (plus more), Ichiro will probably play out the season, Ryan Church isn't going anywhere...

 

We're in a tough spot. If the guys we currently have don't start hitting, this team is f***ed. I'd like to see the Sox continue building with an eye towards next season by giving Sweeney the LF spot permanently, and maybe make a play for Chris Burke.

Edited May 14, 2007 by CWSGuy406

[southsideirish71]

I wanted Dye gone in the offseason. Maximize his value.

 

How do you move a guy who had an MVP type season. That would be crazy. Everyone including I would of considered that KW went nuts and was trying to go cheap and didn't want to compete.

[BobDylan]

This is the first time in a long time I cant see any noticeable fixes out in the MLB. The only thing I can see is if we could get Crawford. That would help. But that would cost Danks and possibly everything in AA.

 

No.

 

If Ichiro could be had for a reasonible price, there's no reason the White Sox shouldn't jump at it. This means any prospects not involving the names Sweeney, Danks, Gonzalez or Masset. Anything outside that, I think the White Sox have to take the option into serious consideration. It could also give the Sox a heads up in offering him a new contract.

 

The problem is that a lead-off hitter isn't the White Sox most pressing need right now. Erstad has been adequate enough--and unforutnately one of their better offensive players--and the team sorely lacks power. Konerko, Dye and Crede are absolutely awful thus far. Fact is, the offensive solution is already within the team. The question is will those players produce?

 

But I'll always be giddy at the idea of having Ichiro in a White Sox uniform. The guy is a Class-A ball player. Great defender, great base runner, great lead-off hitter. If they think they have a legitimate chance at bringing him back for a few more years, I hope it happens.

[southsideirish71]

Oh yeah, Erick Aybar is going the be that spark -- the guy who put up a .283/.327/.413 line in the freakin' PCL last year.

 

We're going to live-and-die with most of the guys on this team -- this includes Pierzynski, Konerko, Uribe, Crede, Dye and Thome. That leaves three spots -- 2B, LF and CF. Who is available at 2B who is going to be a big upgrade over Iguchi? Iguchi will probably hit at some point -- his defense will still suck, but he'll eventually hit better.

 

That leaves the two OF spots. All the options I can think of are going to be costly. Baldelli is going to cost the Sox Gio (plus more), Ichiro will probably play out the season, Ryan Church isn't going anywhere...

 

We're in a tough spot. If the guys we currently have don't start hitting, this team is f***ed. I'd like to see the Sox continue building with an eye towards next season by giving Sweeney the LF spot permanently, and maybe make a play for Chris Burke.

 

Burke hits left handed pitching can play the outfield and 2nd base. He would make more sense for our bench right now than the either the same player(cintron and Mack) or Ozuna.

[fathom]

I thought about this long and hard at the game today, and came to the best conclusion.

 

Our hitters need to be better.

But seriously, that is not only the most realistic option, but probably the best option as well. As it stands right now, one player isn't going to save this team. It doesn't matter if you put A-Rod in the middle of the lineup, it still doesn't change the fact that our 1B, 2B, RF would still not be hitting a lick, and it just so happens are 1B, 2B, and RF all bat in the top half of the lineup, i.e. major contributors.

There is no quick fix right now. This is the team we have. It's the core. Good or bad, it's sink or swim with the basic lineup we have.

 

Exactly, there's too many people struggling right now to just put a band-aid on things by making one acquisition. The damage was done by not making a few moves to spark the offense, and now we have to just hope the core offensive players can get it done. So many of them seem to have lacked significant bat speed since the start of the 2nd half last year.

 

No.

 

If Ichiro could be had for a reasonible price, there's no reason the White Sox shouldn't jump at it. This means any prospects not involving the names Sweeney, Danks, Gonzalez or Masset

. Anything outside that, I think the White Sox have to take the option into serious consideration. It could also give the Sox a heads up in offering him a new contract.

 

The problem is that a lead-off hitter isn't the White Sox most pressing need right now. Erstad has been adequate enough--and unforutnately one of their better offensive players--and the team sorely lacks power. Konerko, Dye and Crede are absolutely awful thus far. Fact is, the offensive solution is already within the team. The question is will those players produce?

 

But I'll always be giddy at the idea of having Ichiro in a White Sox uniform. The guy is a Class-A ball player. Great defender, great base runner, great lead-off hitter. If they think they have a legitimate chance at bringing him back for a few more years, I hope it happens.

 

If someone's giving you talent in return for Masset, you should have no problem with that trade. The only untouchable in our entire organization should be Danks.

[Gregory Pratt]

How do you move a guy who had an MVP type season. That would be crazy. Everyone including I would of considered that KW went nuts and was trying to go cheap and didn't want to compete.

 

How do you do it? You pick up the phone, dial and say, "Hello there, partner."

 

I think you'd have to be really stupid to think that Dye was going to repeat his 06 numbers. He'd be a closer bet for 05 numbers, which are good but not great.

 

KW shocked the Sox world with McCarthy's trade; he should've done the same with Dye and Crede, IMO, but definitely Dye because the return value would've been significant.

 

Exactly, there's too many people struggling right now to just put a band-aid on things by making one acquisition. The damage was done by not making a few moves to spark the offense, and now we have to just hope the core offensive players can get it done. So many of them seem to have lacked significant bat speed since the start of the 2nd half last year.

If someone's giving you talent in return for Masset, you should have no problem with that trade. The only untouchable in our entire organization should be Danks.

 

KW

 

He's just a tick below Gavin Floyd in the Arizona League

[fathom]

How do you do it? You pick up the phone, dial and say, "Hello there, partner."

 

I think you'd have to be really stupid to think that Dye was going to repeat his 06 numbers. He'd be a closer bet for 05 numbers, which are good but not great.

 

KW shocked the Sox world with McCarthy's trade; he should've done the same with Dye and Crede, IMO, but definitely Dye because the return value would've been significant.

KW

 

He's just a tick below Gavin Floyd in the Arizona League

 

KW tried to balance both competing and rebuilding for the future during the offseason. That doesn't work in this day and age with big contracts. We went from having one of the more talented teams in the AL to closer to the middle of the pack.

[Gregory Pratt]

KW tried to balance both competing and rebuilding for the future during the offseason. That doesn't work in this day and age with big contracts. We went from having one of the more talented teams in the AL to closer to the middle of the pack.

 

The crazy thing is that this team can't nibble. It can't rally. It's got to homer or drive one deep or nothing will happen because three singles in a row aren't a shoo-in to score runs for us.

 

Speed kills.

[fathom]

The crazy thing is that this team can't nibble. It can't rally. It's got to homer or drive one deep or nothing will happen because three singles in a row aren't a shoo-in to score runs for us.

 

Speed kills.

 

Like you said earlier, we have such a slow team. Erstad and Sweeney are actually faster than I thought they'd be, but that's good because Iguchi and Dye are the running versions of Jenks fastball from 2005 to 2007.

[southsideirish71]

KW shocked the Sox world with McCarthy's trade; he should've done the same with Dye and Crede, IMO, but definitely Dye because the return value would've been significant.

 

How much money do you invest in your season tickets. Because a few years ago, with the 05 season a lot more people decided to drop a lot of money, and I mean a lot on season tickets. Now imagine you are a new season ticket holder who saw a team just miss with 90 wins your invoice just came in for 07 renewal. So its a lot of money but you love your whitesox. So is the average new season ticket holder about to drop a s***load of money when you ditch Crede, Dye, Garcia and Bmac. I just have an Ozzie plan which still wasnt cheap and I would be livid if KW decided to cut out Crede and Dye at the same time.

 

Season tickets and attendance have a direct impact on the sox payroll.

Edited May 14, 2007 by southsideirish71

[spiderman]

Right now, there's not much that can be done besides changing the lineup each day. Unless Konerko, Crede, Dye, and others start hitting more consistently, it's going to struggle to score runs. Simple as that.

[dagotony06]

We are 4 games out of first place and we have won 6 of the last 8. I just don't understand all this negativity. The hitting is gonna come around. 2005 was the same way, the pitching saved us, and we did just enough hitting. I just think this team has a history of hitting, and it will. In the end if KW feels he needs to make a move, I trust that he will. Everyone just needs to relax, and enjoy was is gonna be an exciting season, and at times a frustrating season. No one is gonna run away with this division.

Edited May 14, 2007 by diegotony06

[southsideirish71]

We are 4 games out of first place and we have won 6 of the last 8. I just don't understand all this negativity. The hitting is gonna come around. 2005 was the same way, the pitching saved us, and we did just enough hitting. I just think this team has a history of hitting, and it will. In the end if KW feels he needs to make a move, I trust that he will. Everyone just needs to relax, and enjoy was is gonna be an exciting season, and at times a frustrating season. No one is gonna run away with this division.

 

In 05 we hit .255 in April and 106 runs. In May they hit .254 and 123 runs.

 

Kong and Dye struggled in April, but in May people started to hit a bit.

 

In 07 we hit .225 in April thats 30 points less than our horrible April of 05 and scored 95 runs.

 

In may so far we are hitting .216.

 

I will relax the minute large amounts of our team start to hit like major leaguers. Wasting this pitching is terrible. I remember hearing the same argument last year, when we dropped games to the Royals. Oh well, its April and the pitching will come around. Ozzie is resting his starters for October thats why the starters only play in 25% of the games together. We won 90 games. If we didnt lose a few of those games we should of won those victories would of put us smack dab in the middle the division/wild card race. You cant waste this pitching. If our offense is medicore we would have 5 more wins. Oh and the well this is going to be long, and we will win it in the 2nd half. When do you remember a whitesox team that was noticibly better in the 2nd half. We have been for a long time a first half team. Our successful seasons involve a great start, and playing 500 ball in the 2nd half or like last year sub 500 baseball.

[BobDylan]

If someone's giving you talent in return for Masset, you should have no problem with that trade. The only untouchable in our entire organization should be Danks.

 

Probably, I just like him even despite his most recent outing.

[Flash Tizzle]

From Friday's Sun-Times:

Still searching for identity

 

Unfamiliar territory for Williams, who's just trying to assess what the Sox have

 

May 11, 2007

BY JOE COWLEY Staff Reporter

MINNEAPOLIS -- It's mid-May, and Ken Williams is out of his comfort zone.

 

A phone call with head scout Dave Yoakum -- basically John J. Rambo to Williams' Col. Trautman -- made the White Sox' general manager realize that.

 

''The last couple of conversations with Yoakum, especially the last one, he was like, 'Uh, you sure there's nothing in particular?''' Williams said. ''I was like, 'No, I haven't identified anything yet. You want to help me out with that?'''

 

That's where ''Trader Kenny'' is these days. May usually has the anxious GM sending out his army of scouts with a specific list of players to help his team, setting the table for his June haggling with other GMs.

 

For the first time in his seven-year stint, that's not the case.

 

''I never remember saying that to my scouts,'' Williams said.

 

The reason for Williams' cloudy view of his team?

 

''Generally by now, I would have already identified what we need and passed that on to the area scouts,'' Williams said. ''But I'll be honest with you: I don't have a feel of who we are.''

 

That idea would frighten most GMs, especially one who transforms from a smooth-talking Billy Dee Williams persona during the offseason -- think Lando Calrissian when he still was running Cloud City -- to a table-puncher who feels as though every loss takes a little piece out of him.

 

So why is Williams sleeping well these days?

 

''I can sleep at night knowing the pitching is good and it's going to take care of itself,'' Williams said. ''What we have on board and what we have below in case something happens, I can sleep.''

 

But no one is looking forward to the return of injured players Jim Thome, Scott Podsednik and Toby Hall more than Williams.

 

''With those injuries, that takes a lot of our identity away, so I really haven't seen this team play at full strength,'' Williams said. ''I don't think you can really assess who you are, so I just instructed our scouts to look at identifying what we need for next year.''

 

That means come June and July, when Williams usually is on the cell phone more often than Ari Gold, it might be time for him to sit pat.

 

A wise decision, unless something drops in his lap.

 

Fact is, the only tinkering that needs to be done with this team might be in the outfield if Podsednik isn't Podsednik when he returns. The Sox' starting rotation is as good as any rotation in the American League Central, and the bullpen, in Williams' estimation, ''can grow.''

 

That leaves adding a veteran presence in the outfield as a three-month rental if Williams deems it necessary.

 

Are the Sox built to win it all? No, but no AL team has shown that it is. That's the beauty of the 2007 season so far: It's there for the taking by almost anyone.

 

Even a GM who doesn't truly know what he has yet.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...T-joe11.article

 

I completely agree with Williams' approach here. It's foolish to forsake a portion of the future to assist an offense which is bound to -- at the least -- marginally improve. Thome and Hall, perhaps an additional month from the remaining players, will give all the evidence to deterimine whether a significant midseason deal is even necessary. If we're 6+ games out of a playoff spot near the trading deadline, no use worrying about the offense. It'll be fire sale time.

Edited May 14, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[Wanne]

I can't see the Angels giving up Willits...that is unless you throw Crede at them.

 

A team to possibly look at right now who is struggling offensively also is the DBacks. Sometimes change is good. Even though this guy has a handful of personal problems right now...it may be a good time to make a package for Alberto Callaspo. I'd still give my let nut to have Eric Byrnes on this team. So...a package that included Dye (home in the Valley), a pitching prospect (that does not include Gio) and maybe (fill in the blank) for Byrnes and Callaspo. Before everybody jumps down my throat...I'm not sure what specifics would be...but I just threw out the main ones.