I hate to have to do this....

[whitesoxfan101]

But it is necessary. I will make this antagonistic declaration right now, because it is needed and accurate. I have 2 thoughts for those of you who, after what Ozzie did from about 8 AM today until 4 PM today, still think he's anything other than a AT LEAST bad manager.

 

1. Your an idiot.

2. Go become a Cub fan, because only one of them could think anything else of Guillen after today.

 

If we miss the playoffs and he still has a job after this season, I also want Kenny fired as well simply for his loyalty to an idiot. Last year proved Ozzie is a bad manager, today proved that barring a playoff appearance, he must go. If we don't make it to October, I will not tolerate a bad manager with a big mouth who missed the playoffs 3 of his 4 seasons. Period.

Edited May 19, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[Texsox]

Yet, by almost any yardstick, Ozzie is one of the top 10 Sox managers of all time. Amazing.

[Heads22]

But it is necessary. I will make this antagonistic declaration right now, because it is needed and accurate. I have 2 thoughts for those of you who, after what Ozzie did from about 8 AM today until 4 PM today, still think he's anything other than a AT LEAST bad manager.

 

1. Your an idiot.

2. Go become a Cub fan, because only one of them could think anything else of Guillen after today.

 

If we miss the playoffs and he still has a job after this season, I also want Kenny fired as well simply for his loyalty to an idiot. Last year proved Ozzie is a bad manager, today proved that barring a playoff appearance, he must go. If we don't make it to October, I will not tolerate a bad manager with a big mouth who missed the playoffs 3 of his 4 seasons. Period.

[IlliniKrush]

Yet, by almost any yardstick, Ozzie is one of the top 10 Sox managers of all time. Amazing.

Is that saying much?

[max power]

He is definitely one of the top 10 sox managers and like illini said, that isn't saying much.

[rangercal]

well our last 2 managers have been Jerry Manual and Terry Bevington. I Guess I'll be a f***ing IDIOT!

[fathom]

In terms of in-game managing and player evaluating, I'd definitely choose Manuel over Guillen. Guillen's big advantage over Manuel was supposed to be player relations and motivation. There's been rumblings about some clubhouse issues lately.....and we have to get this AJ bulls*** to stop immediately.

[Flash Tizzle]

In terms of in-game managing and player evaluating, I'd definitely choose Manuel over Guillen. Guillen's big advantage over Manuel was supposed to be player relations and motivation. There's been rumblings about some clubhouse issues lately.....and we have to get this AJ bulls*** to stop immediately.

 

Inside Information.....

[nitetrain8601]

 

Inside Information.....

 

I luvvvvvvvv Tony Reali.

[RibbieRubarb]

But it is necessary. I will make this antagonistic declaration right now, because it is needed and accurate. I have 2 thoughts for those of you who, after what Ozzie did from about 8 AM today until 4 PM today, still think he's anything other than a AT LEAST bad manager.

 

1. Your an idiot.

2. Go become a Cub fan, because only one of them could think anything else of Guillen after today.

 

If we miss the playoffs and he still has a job after this season, I also want Kenny fired as well simply for his loyalty to an idiot. Last year proved Ozzie is a bad manager, today proved that barring a playoff appearance, he must go. If we don't make it to October, I will not tolerate a bad manager with a big mouth who missed the playoffs 3 of his 4 seasons. Period.

 

You forgot to mention the one year we didn't make it, we won the World Series. You might have forgotten.

If you are going to blame him completely for the bad times, give him all the credit for the good times, too.

 

You guys crack me up!

[BobDylan]

But it is necessary. I will make this antagonistic declaration right now, because it is needed and accurate. I have 2 thoughts for those of you who, after what Ozzie did from about 8 AM today until 4 PM today, still think he's anything other than a AT LEAST bad manager.

 

1. Your an idiot.

2. Go become a Cub fan, because only one of them could think anything else of Guillen after today.

 

If we miss the playoffs and he still has a job after this season, I also want Kenny fired as well simply for his loyalty to an idiot. Last year proved Ozzie is a bad manager, today proved that barring a playoff appearance, he must go. If we don't make it to October, I will not tolerate a bad manager with a big mouth who missed the playoffs 3 of his 4 seasons. Period.

 

Heads already hit it, but YOU'RE an idiot.

 

Anyway, it is tough for any manager to mange over 4 errors.

 

 

In terms of in-game managing and player evaluating, I'd definitely choose Manuel over Guillen. Guillen's big advantage over Manuel was supposed to be player relations and motivation. There's been rumblings about some clubhouse issues lately.....and we have to get this AJ bulls*** to stop immediately.

 

That was bound to happen, wasn't it? Fact is this is probably Guillen's last year any way you look at it unless the White Sox make a run deep into the playoffs...which doesn't seem likely. It's a bit of a different feel, but this team is just like the teams of '01-'04--in the mix, but not quite there. This may seem odd, but I'm looking forward to rebuilding and seeing some fresh faces. I'm excited to see if KW can bring this team back to the top.

Edited May 19, 2007 by BobDylan

[knightni]

1. Your an idiot.

 

Oh the irony.

[caulfield12]

Heads already hit it, but YOU'RE an idiot.

 

Anyway, it is tough for any manager to mange over 4 errors.

That was bound to happen, wasn't it? Fact is this is probably Guillen's last year any way you look at it unless the White Sox make a run deep into the playoffs...which doesn't seem likely. It's a bit of a different feel, but this team is just like the teams of '01-'04--in the mix, but not quite there. This may seem odd, but I'm looking forward to rebuilding and seeing some fresh faces. I'm excited to see if KW can bring this team back to the top.

 

And you would trust KW to rebuild this team? Why?

 

And what new manager would you want to bring in? Bobby Valentine? Buck Showalter? Cito Gaston? The same old recycled guys?

 

Let's say they lose Buehrle and Dye as Free Agents...do you really trust KW to rebuild, when we've had so many blown first round draft picks and busts in our farm system?

 

It's not just Ozzie Guillen, it's a systemic/endemic/organizational problem....front office, major league coaching staff, scouting, advanced scouting, minor league instruction.

 

You could fire Ozzie right now and we would still be a .500 team. Joe McCarthy or Connie Mack wouldn't get this team, as presently constituted, to 90 wins. We're incredibly fortunate to be over .500 at this point. You can give all the credit to the players for the wins and blame to Guillen for losses, but a team that scores less than it gives up is hardly ever in the playoffs. Not even Merlin the Magician can pull that one off, in cartoon movies.

[Flash Tizzle]

And you would trust KW to rebuild this team? Why?

 

Let's say they lose Buehrle and Dye as Free Agents...do you really trust KW to rebuild, when we've had so many blown first round draft picks and busts in our farm system?

I don't trust anyone currently employed by the organization to successfully rebuild from within.

 

However, I can only hope they've learn from past mistakes; such as adopting a weak draft philosophy, targeting players based upon Fall League statistics, or otherwise including players such as Floyd who resemble Coop-projects more than prospects.

 

I take additional solace in the possibility that if a rebuilding effort is undertaken and Williams fails, he'll be fired. Regardless of 2005. He won't enter it half-assed knowing his jobs on the line.

 

This upcoming amateur draft is very important for our future. Not only with the first selection, but more for showcasing to fans that they've finally realized safe picks don't win championships. And they certaintly don't match up against the talented prospects of divisional opponents. I don't consider drafting someone with the knowledge of one day including them in a trade as productive, either. We need to draft for our stability; not the possibility of acquiring a veteran.

Edited May 19, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[Texsox]

This upcoming amateur draft is very important for our future. Not only with the first selection, but more for showcasing to fans that they've finally realized safe picks don't win championships. .

 

So skip over the most highly touted players for the dangerous choice? No thanks.

[RockRaines]

You should have thought longer and harder than you did, because obviously it didnt work for you.

[FlaSoxxJim]

1. Your an idiot.

 

 

And you're point is. . . ?

 

[Harry Chappas]

OK this is getting out of hand. The bullpen is expected to save EVERY game. With this offense and our schedule we should be at least 5 under. The starters and bullpen need a relief, when you score 5 runs or less EVERY GAME the chances are you are going to lose quite often. The 2007 White Sox have not. Every game is a tense bullpen situation as the hitters are geard up as well as the pitchers. This is going to cost the Sox to lose once in a while.

 

Guillen and Walker are not hte problemn with the offense the injuries and bad approaches are. Thome if healty will solve many problems.

 

After this weekend, the Tigers and Indians play 7 times in 10 days.

 

For anyone claiming doom and gloom look at the schedules each of these teams played and look at the next month or so.

 

Guillen has won over 90 games the last two years and in his first year lost two MVP offensive players with his team in the running.

 

He had info the Pagan hits better right handed whoever provided that info needs ot be addressed.

 

Oh and I think the intangibles GUillen brings are the best in baseball.

[YASNY]

Check out the Sox runs allowed vs. runs scored and their record.

Check out the Cubs runs allowed vs. runs scored and their record.

Consider the fact the Sox are in the strongest division in baseball and the Cubs the worst.

 

Ozzie and those that support him aren't the idiots.

[mmmmmbeeer]

Ozzie has made some REAL boneheaded moves during games, the biggest mistake this season being the game where he left Pods out in LF in a 1run game in the 9th against the A's. THAT instance directly resulted in a loss. I just don't get what he did so wrong yesterday to be catching all this s***? Leaving Mac in the game? I haven't been able to watch many games the last couple of weeks but I always come to Soxtalk for a recap and, during the past 2 weeks, I kept reading how Mac has got it back, looking good again. So was all that just pie-in-the-sky talk? Has he really been awful and Ozzie should've known to go to Aardsma in the 7th? Not inserting AJ at catcher in the 7th? Why oh why would you put your backup in before the 9th inning? Toby Hall, unlike Molina, can hit ML pitching. You don't put your team in a position where an injury to AJ leaves you without a catcher...especially considering the sCrUBS would certainly take the opportunity to throw a ball or two at his head while he's batting, especially when Sweet Lou knows that Oz has no backup if AJ gets ejected or hurt.

 

Hell, there were even people getting on Ozzie for starting Pablo at 3b yesterday instead of Crede without even knowing Crede was hurt.

 

This team should not have the record it has. When your offense is giving the output ours is, it takes two things to win the # of games we have....solid pitching and sound strategy. Ozzie is directly responsible for one of those components. Give the guy a break. I'm no apologist and, quite honestly, I wouldn't be too upset if Ozzie were fired. But at least save the blame game for situations where he's actually the one at fault.

 

We're 2 games over .500 with no offense which, in all actuality, is a testament to the potential this team really has if the O starts clicking. Reading this board you'd think we're about 11 games out already after playing a cake schedule the first month and a half of the season.

[KevHead0881]

I am proud to be an idiot.

 

Good grief.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

And you would trust KW to rebuild this team? Why?

 

Let's say they lose Buehrle and Dye as Free Agents...do you really trust KW to rebuild, when we've had so many blown first round draft picks and busts in our farm system?

KW has a good track record as Sox GM.

 

And if they lose a couple of free agents, they can also sign a couple of free agents.

 

I just hope the Sox can win today, because if this team ever loses two in a row again, some people here will be ready to throw in the towel again and clamor for a fire sale.

[fathom]

KW has a good track record as Sox GM.

 

And if they lose a couple of free agents, they can also sign a couple of free agents.

 

I just hope the Sox can win today, because if this team ever loses two in a row again, some people here will be ready to throw in the towel again and clamor for a fire sale.

 

My biggest concern with KW as a GM if we're going into rebuilding mode is that he has a bad history of trading veteran players for prospects.

[RX Bandits]

i'd like to know who you guys want to lead this team that is available right now. c'mon, there is nobody really any damn good out there, and lets face it, ozzie has had back to back 90 win seasons. if you want to b**** about this year then i think a lot of it is on kenny. no lead off, bad CF, and really what is a lineup that is quickly getting kinda old.

[caulfield12]

KW has a good track record as Sox GM.

 

And if they lose a couple of free agents, they can also sign a couple of free agents.

 

I just hope the Sox can win today, because if this team ever loses two in a row again, some people here will be ready to throw in the towel again and clamor for a fire sale.

 

 

But he's built from the "base" of an average or mediocre team...never having to start from scratch.

 

He's in a precarious situation with players like Uribe and Iguchi, because we have no natural replacements for those players. This might be the time to get a shortstop on the trade or FA market, the best thing right now is with the Yankees/Jeter and Mets/Reyes, the only major player in the market to drive up prices artificially is the Red Sox.

 

Someone mentioned our drafting history earlier.

 

Royce Ring was an ultra "safe" pick, as a college closer we looked to move into set-up (this was before Marte was firmly established)...the biggest risks we have taken were Stumm, Honel, Borchard and Anderson.

 

Drafting high school pitchers is always a crapshoot. If you look at the Moneyball draft year, I think there were six high school pitchers from the first couple of rounds that have already made large impacts on MLB (Loewen, Greinke, Kazmir, Hamels). Matt Cain and Jeff Francoeur were two players we definitely could have used, INSTEAD of Royce Ring. You could make the argument that we would be a definite favorite for the playoffs with either of those players (Cain/Francoeur) on our current roster.

 

However, from #18-30 in that first round, only Cain, Francoeur and Jeremy Guthrie (Indians) are on major league rosters.

Edited May 19, 2007 by caulfield12