That's it, blow the whole f***ing thing up

[fathom]

So what do we do, keep the veterans we have for a ton of money and continue to be mediocre? If you want to win another World Series, we have to sell off parts, because we can't tweak what we have and win anything.

 

Think of it this way....2005 was our one good chance to win the whole f***ing thing, and we did. Be forever grateful of this, because a lot of teams don't capitalize when it's "their season". The window with the core group of Buehrle, Garland, PK, and Crede looks to be done. I'm actually intrigued to see who will be our team leaders in say 2009. My favorite thing to watch the rest of the season will be to see Danks pitch.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

The attendance will die off within the next 3 weeks at the rate we are going on the field anyways.

 

So a fire sale does not really make a difference in that department.

[whitesoxfan101]

Think of it this way....2005 was our one good chance to win the whole f***ing thing, and we did. Be forever grateful of this, because a lot of teams don't capitalize when it's "their season". The window with the core group of Buehrle, Garland, PK, and Crede looks to be done. I'm actually intrigued to see who will be our team leaders in say 2009. My favorite thing to watch the rest of the season will be to see Danks pitch.

 

This doesn't answer how do we fix this though, and I am forever grateful for 2005. However I know we aren't going to win anything again with this core, so we should start trading it for what value it has left to try and rebuild, and maybe the new core can help. Keeping people to avoid attendance and interest falling is utter nonsense, if we start losing (which we will, if we firesale or don't firesale, either way), attedance is going down. At least if we get some young parts, we have hope.

[fathom]

This doesn't answer how do we fix this though, and I am forever grateful for 2005. However I know we aren't going to win anything again with this core, so we should start trading it for what value it has left to try and rebuild, and maybe the new core can help. Keeping people to avoid attendance and interest falling is utter nonsense, if we start losing (which we will, if we firesale or don't firesale, either way), attedance is going down. At least if we get some young parts, we have hope.

 

KW and Ozzie are too proud and arrogant to blow up the team already. They're going to use the injury angle if things get real bad. They'll want to see how we play with Pods and Thome back in the lineup before making any big decisions. I wouldn't be so excited though about seeing us trade some veterans...I'm sure we'll just try to get a AAAA prospect that looked good in the Arizona Fall League.

[AirScott]

OK...we're 20-19 without a starter batting above .260. Four are below .220...so what happens if they rise to a collective .250? Do we win 15 straight? There's no reason to believe these guys won't start hitting.

 

But zero shot of making the playoffs? "Blow the whole f***ing thing up?" Uh...this is a bad two-game stretch for the bullpen. You can't say "don't pitch Mike MacDougal" when his previous two outings consisted of 1.2 innings and no runs, no hits and a walk. David Aardsma's ERA jumped from 1.64 to 3.63 today. IT HAPPENS.

 

I don't care how much you thought about this since the game ended, there's no reason to fire Ozzie Guillen. For one, we're only five games out IN MID-MAY! There are 123 games left on the White Sox schedule, why blow the whole f***ing thing up after two losses? Guillen won 83 without Maggs and Thomas for the majority of 2004, won 99 and a World Series in 2005, then won 90 last year. So what he pops off at the mouth? Nobody on the team cares. Remember the Magglio-Ordonez-is-a-Venezualen-piece-of-s*** tirade in 2005? Didn't seem to have any negative effects, right?

[fathom]

I don't care how much you thought about this since the game ended, there's no reason to fire Ozzie Guillen. For one, we're only five games out IN MID-MAY! There are 123 games left on the White Sox schedule, why blow the whole f***ing thing up after two losses? Guillen won 83 without Maggs and Thomas for the majority of 2004, won 99 and a World Series in 2005, then won 90 last year. So what he pops off at the mouth? Nobody on the team cares. Remember the Magglio-Ordonez-is-a-Venezualen-piece-of-s*** tirade in 2005? Didn't seem to have any negative effects, right?

 

The players didn't exactly love how he treated the Tracey and Garland incident's vs the Rangers last year, and now we have some tension with the whole catching situation. For once, I'd rather Ozzie just focusing on managing and using good strategy.....and stop trying to be funny in the press.

[kramer99]

Do you except us to pull Johan Santana and 7 players having career years at the dish at the same time, along with a lights out bullpen and 2nd half swoon from the 2 teams ahead of us? I love when people go to the retard past examples though, "OMG THE CUBS CAN WIN, HOUSTON CAME BACK FROM 10 BACK IN 2004!!!!11111111"

 

 

All im saying is i think its too quick to give up and "blow up the team" when we are around .500 and our hitting is doing so poor. I dont mind going in and making changes... but i dont think u have to completely blow up the team.

 

Konerko and Crede are around .200 right now

 

Dye is at around .220

 

These guys are doing so much worse than their career averages.... i say at least wait and see a little longer to see if they can turn it around. If they dont pick it up in the next few weeks, then make changes. But you have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they will turn it around. To me at least you should. Our SP is doing damn good and our bullpen is struggling as of late. Who would think that we'd be above .500 with a team batting avg. of aournd .220?

 

Give them 2-4 more weeks...thats all im saying

[whitesoxfan101]

The funny thing to me is everybody saying we will start hitting. Well first of all, we have the worst hitting coach in the game and a manager that gives away free outs left and right bunting, even in tie games in the 7th inning when a gale wind is blowing out. Second of all, all of our starting pitchers had great track records going into last year, I kept hearing "well when they recover with this offense, we'll be unstoppable!" It never happened. This looks exactly like last year, only in complete reverse. Only difference is we didn't get off to a great start this time, the 2 teams we are fighting with this year might be better than the 2 from 2006, and now even our bullpen is starting to show signs of being pathetic. And I won't even address the incredible, hard to believe that he's still being defended Ozzie stuff again.

[briguy27]

somebody mentioned that this is a waste...

 

yea it turns out getting tickets to see the sox play in pittsburgh 3 times and kansas city 3 times, including gas money, will be a waste of money to see this baseball team play

Edited May 19, 2007 by briguy27

[southsideirish71]

All im saying is i think its too quick to give up and "blow up the team" when we are around .500 and our hitting is doing so poor. I dont mind going in and making changes... but i dont think u have to completely blow up the team.

 

Konerko and Crede are around .200 right now

 

Dye is at around .220

 

These guys are doing so much worse than their career averages.... i say at least wait and see a little longer to see if they can turn it around. If they dont pick it up in the next few weeks, then make changes. But you have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they will turn it around. To me at least you should. Our SP is doing damn good and our bullpen is struggling as of late. Who would think that we'd be above .500 with a team batting avg. of aournd .220?

 

Give them 2-4 more weeks...thats all im saying

 

You realize that Konerko did this before. 2003

[ChWRoCk2]

What?!!!!!!!!

 

It's JASON f***ING MARQUIS. However lucky he's been so far, this guy is not a good pitcher. I will always and everywhere expect any team to light him up like it's Christmas, until he can sustain this s*** for at least ONE season.

I meant the series as a whole.

 

I know we rocked Marquis we last saw him I posted that in the beginning of the gamethread. Our offense was hitting better at that point last year than this year thus far.

 

Hes been fairly consistant for them and made good pitches.

[fathom]

The funny thing to me is everybody saying we will start hitting. Well first of all, we have the worst hitting coach in the game and a manager that gives away free outs left and right bunting, even in tie games in the 7th inning when a gale wind is blowing out. Second of all, all of our starting pitchers had great track records going into last year, I kept hearing "well when they recover with this offense, we'll be unstoppable!" It never happened. This looks exactly like last year, only in complete reverse. Only difference is we didn't get off to a great start this time, the 2 teams we are fighting with this year might be better than the 2 from 2006, and now even our bullpen is starting to show signs of being pathetic. And I won't even address the incredible, hard to believe that he's still being defended Ozzie stuff again.

 

I'll give you the same advice for tonight that Ozzie gave his troops after his first game with the team: "Go get drunk and forget about it". You know I dislike this current team as much as you do, but you're going to give yourself an ulcer if after every game we lose, you have to make a thread like this. It sucks to lose....so just do what I do and root for every Cubs player to suffer a season-ending injury.

[whitesoxfan101]

KW and Ozzie are too proud and arrogant to blow up the team already. They're going to use the injury angle if things get real bad. They'll want to see how we play with Pods and Thome back in the lineup before making any big decisions. I wouldn't be so excited though about seeing us trade some veterans...I'm sure we'll just try to get a AAAA prospect that looked good in the Arizona Fall League.

 

If we trade these guys for AAAA prospects (or keeps everybody when we are still hovering around .500 on July 27th), that is when Kenny is on the blow it up list too. But we have to trade these guys, and Kenny can't be fired right now, so we have to let him try and do it. And Pods isn't coming back until after the deadline probably anyways, and Thome can't play defense or pitch out of the pen.

[AirScott]

The players didn't exactly love how he treated the Tracey and Garland incident's vs the Rangers last year, and now we have some tension with the whole catching situation. For once, I'd rather Ozzie just focusing on managing and using good strategy.....and stop trying to be funny in the press.

Yeah, but that Tracey thing was nearly a year ago. I wouldn't believe there's tension in the catching situation, Toby Hall can hit a little bit, and he went 2-for-3 yesterday. It just seems bigger because of the Mike North blowup.

 

So Ozzie is in his fourth year, but were there any incidents like with Sean Tracey? And at the time, did anyone mention that COACHES YELL? Ozzie wanted Tracey to stick up for his team. He FAILED, so Ozzie YELLED. It's sports. That cannot have been the first time a manager yelled.

[whitesoxfan101]

I'll give you the same advice for tonight that Ozzie gave his troops after his first game with the team: "Go get drunk and forget about it". You know I dislike this current team as much as you do, but you're going to give yourself an ulcer if after every game we lose, you have to make a thread like this. It sucks to lose....so just do what I do and root for every Cubs player to suffer a season-ending injury.

 

Hey I only did it the last 2 games, our 3rd to last loss (the Yankee joke the other night), my thread was titled "oh well" and my attitude was the same. The last 2 days have just been the last seasoning to a boiling pot IMO.

[fathom]

I meant the series as a whole.

 

I know we rocked Marquis we last saw him I posted that in the beginning of the gamethread. Our offense was hitting better at that point last year than this year thus far.

 

Hes been fairly consistant for them and made good pitches.

 

That was by far the worst Marquis has looked all year. Erstad and Uribe were terrible against him today. Nothing like having what should be your 7-8-9 in AJ, Uribe, and Erstad having to bat 1-2-3.

[whitesoxfan101]

You realize that Konerko did this before. 2003

 

What about the other 6 or 7 guys? Konerko's recovery from 2003 is a rarity in the history of baseball by anybody, that's like using Roger Clemens as an example that you can pitch into your mid 40's.

[kramer99]

The funny thing to me is everybody saying we will start hitting. Well first of all, we have the worst hitting coach in the game and a manager that gives away free outs left and right bunting, even in tie games in the 7th inning when a gale wind is blowing out. Second of all, all of our starting pitchers had great track records going into last year, I kept hearing "well when they recover with this offense, we'll be unstoppable!" It never happened. This looks exactly like last year, only in complete reverse. Only difference is we didn't get off to a great start this time, the 2 teams we are fighting with this year might be better than the 2 from 2006, and now even our bullpen is starting to show signs of being pathetic. And I won't even address the incredible, hard to believe that he's still being defended Ozzie stuff again.

 

 

i thought u said we should look to the "retard past" for examples...your words not mine.

[fathom]

Yeah, but that Tracey thing was nearly a year ago. I wouldn't believe there's tension in the catching situation, Toby Hall can hit a little bit, and he went 2-for-3 yesterday. It just seems bigger because of the Mike North blowup.

 

So Ozzie is in his fourth year, but were there any incidents like with Sean Tracey? And at the time, did anyone mention that COACHES YELL? Ozzie wanted Tracey to stick up for his team. He FAILED, so Ozzie YELLED. It's sports. That cannot have been the first time a manager yelled.

 

Ozzie treated Tracey like s***...I don't know how this can be argued otherwise. There was a lot that went on behind the scenes with Tracey and Ozzie, and I'll always appreciate Razor Shines for how he handled it. Anyways, the whole catching thing seems so stupid. I agree with Ozzie about playing Hall, but AJ seems to be acting like a little b**** about it.

Edited May 19, 2007 by fathom

[whitesoxfan101]

Give them 2-4 more weeks...thats all im saying

 

Well nothing is going to happen in terms of moves until at least July anyways, so they will get their time. And if everybody suddenly wakes up, I'll admit I'm wrong. I just highly doubt it, I mean they can't keep being THIS bad, but they aren't going to recover to career averages. This is like last years starters in terms of our lineup and everybody seeming to have a below average year at the same time. The difference is our everyday players are a lot older, and we have no everyday player help in the minors. And even if we do recover, Cleveland and Detroit are so much better than us that we aren't making it to October anyways.

[fathom]

Well nothing is going to happen in terms of moves until at least July anyways, so they will get their time. And if everybody suddenly wakes up, I'll admit I'm wrong. I just highly doubt it, I mean they can't keep being THIS bad, but they aren't going to recover to career averages. This is like last years starters in terms of our lineup and everybody seeming to have a below average year at the same time. The difference is our everyday players are a lot older, and we have no everyday player help in the minors. And even if we do recover, Cleveland and Detroit are so much better than us that we aren't making it to October anyways.

 

Detroit is a fantastic team. They've had more injuries than we have, and they just keep going out there and playing well. For all the s*** we give the Indians and the Tigers, their bullpens are performing better than our overrated mess is.

[whitesoxfan101]

i thought u said we should look to the "retard past" for examples...your words not mine.

 

That's actually a fair point, which is why it's fair and logical to realistically leave the teams as is until July (maybe I should have titled the thread "blow the whole f***ing thing up in July"). But this has all the makings of a lineup that will do what our staff did last year. There is no sign that 7 guys will suddenly emerge to have career years hitting and that 2 pitchers will be untouchable for months for us like the Twins got last year. None at all.

Edited May 19, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[jackie hayes]

I meant the series as a whole.

 

I know we rocked Marquis we last saw him I posted that in the beginning of the gamethread. Our offense was hitting better at that point last year than this year thus far.

 

Hes been fairly consistant for them and made good pitches.

Okay, fair enough. In terms of the series as a whole, I didn't expect the Sox to light up the Cubs, not at all.

 

But if Marquis throws shutouts every game between now and the next series, I'll STILL be surprised if we don't tear him a new one. Russ Ortiz and Eric Milton have runs during which they don't look like they suck, too.

[kramer99]

That's actually a fair point, which is why it's fair and logical to realistically leave the teams as is until July (maybe I should have titled the thread "blow the whole f***ing thing up in July"). But this has all the makings of a lineup that will do what our staff did last year. There is no sign that 7 guys will suddenly emerge to have career years hitting and that 2 pitchers will be untouchable for months for us like the Twins got last year. None at all.

 

Yea we don't have 2 lights out Starting pitchers... instead we have 5 pitchers who have pitched 6 innings for 23 straight games.... and before you say that thats not impressive or meaningful.... add in the fact that they have ERA's between 3.20-4.10. Having 5 starters that legitimately can give u a damn good chance to win every single game means alot.

 

And the bullpen today showed signs of being s***ty....the last 2 games at least.... But they have also showed signs of being lights out. 9 runs in 2 games from our bullpen is awful. But its cost us 2 games. It just makes it seem so much worse that it was against the cubs. We forget how good Aardsma has been for us now cuz he came in and had a bad inning. I also remember him throwing 5 strikeouts in 2 innings against the indians... and i think the bases were loaded with nobody out. in a season, players tend to have great games (vs. Indians) and bad Games (vs. cubs). Its how well they are in between that matters. And they havent been that bad in between

[AirScott]

That's actually a fair point, which is why it's fair and logical to realistically leave the teams as is until July (maybe I should have titled the thread "blow the whole f***ing thing up in July"). But this has all the makings of a lineup that will do what our staff did last year. There is no sign that 7 guys will suddenly emerge to have career years hitting and that 2 pitchers will be untouchable for months for us like the Twins got last year. None at all.

But the team is staying afloat, five games out at 20-19 without an everyday player hitting at or above .260. Konerko and Crede have had years that will make you think they may not rise those averages above .240 or .250, but what about everyone else? Dye hit .315 last year and proved he is an MVP-caliber player when healthy. He's had those really bad years too, but when healthy? Iguchi hit .278 as a rookie and followed it up hitting .281. A.J. has normally, throughout his career, been in the .300 range.

 

So what are the odds that all these guys don't turn it around?