That's it, blow the whole f***ing thing up

[whitesoxfan101]

But the team is staying afloat, five games out at 20-19 without an everyday player hitting at or above .260. Konerko and Crede have had years that will make you think they may not rise those averages above .240 or .250, but what about everyone else? Dye hit .315 last year and proved he is an MVP-caliber player when healthy. He's had those really bad years too, but when healthy? Iguchi hit .278 as a rookie and followed it up hitting .281. A.J. has normally, throughout his career, been in the .300 range.

 

So what are the odds that all these guys don't turn it around?

 

A.J.'s numbers will probably go up since he won't play hardly at all against lefties (it's a platoon, no matter what Ozzie and KW say or how much A.J doesn't like it). Beyond that? Dye is coming off a career year, this might just be a regression to the overall means, Iguchi seems tired, old, and figured out by the league, Joe Crede is a .250 hitter anyways.......so yeah. I think they will get better, especially if Thome stays healthy (and I think Konerko will wake up), but that makes this offense just average IMO and combine that with our bullpen and it's 5 ERA or so right now and we're not close to going anywhere. Even when I look at this in a positive way, we got no chance, lol.

[fathom]

Here is the bullpen's ERA by player:

 

3.18, 3.63, 4.63, 4.66, 5.40, 6.61, 6.75

 

That sucks!

[Whitewashed in '05]

But the team is staying afloat, five games out at 20-19 without an everyday player hitting at or above .260. Konerko and Crede have had years that will make you think they may not rise those averages above .240 or .250, but what about everyone else? Dye hit .315 last year and proved he is an MVP-caliber player when healthy. He's had those really bad years too, but when healthy? Iguchi hit .278 as a rookie and followed it up hitting .281. A.J. has normally, throughout his career, been in the .300 range.

 

So what are the odds that all these guys don't turn it around?

Iguchi and Dye have been terrible defensively. Them two alone have cost us big both defensively and offensively. Then you have the dynamic duo behind the plate that can't throw anyone out (some fault going to he pitchers.)

 

We have no arms in the outfield. Any hit will score a run from second.

 

Then you have the bullpen full of bozos that can't pitch in the late innings with a lead.

Edited May 19, 2007 by Whitewashed in '05

[whitesoxfan101]

Iguchi and Dye have been terrible defensively. Them two alone have cost us big both defensively and offensively. Then you have the dynamic duo behind the plate that can't throw anyone out (some fault going to he pitchers.)

 

We have no arms in the outfield. Any hit will score a run from second.

 

Then you have the bullpen full of bozos that can't pitch with in the late innings with a lead.

 

Yeah our defense is atrocious, I haven't even got to that, lol.

[fathom]

Yeah our defense is atrocious, I haven't even got to that, lol.

 

It's called being unathletic and aging. It's sad to see how teams have easy it is for teams to score on gappers against the Sox.

[AirScott]

A.J.'s numbers will probably go up since he won't play hardly at all against lefties (it's a platoon, no matter what Ozzie and KW say or how much A.J doesn't like it). Beyond that? Dye is coming off a career year, this might just be a regression to the overall means, Iguchi seems tired, old, and figured out by the league, Joe Crede is a .250 hitter anyways.......so yeah. I think they will get better, especially if Thome stays healthy (and I think Konerko will wake up), but that makes this offense just average IMO and combine that with our bullpen and it's 5 ERA or so right now and we're not close to going anywhere. Even when I look at this in a positive way, we got no chance, lol.

 

 

Here is the bullpen's ERA by player:

 

3.18, 3.63, 4.63, 4.66, 5.40, 6.61, 6.75

 

That sucks!

But bullpen ERA can be very misleading. Aardsma's ERA rose from 1.64 to 3.63 today. One crap outing raises it by two. These guys are by no mean on the level of our 2005 bullpen or the Twins' pen last year, but it's not as bad as it looks.

[whitesoxfan101]

It's called being unathletic and aging. It's sad to see how teams have easy it is for teams to score on gappers against the Sox.

 

Exactly, another reason why change is needed.

[AirScott]

Iguchi and Dye have been terrible defensively. Them two alone have cost us big both defensively and offensively. Then you have the dynamic duo behind the plate that can't throw anyone out (some fault going to he pitchers.)

 

We have no arms in the outfield. Any hit will score a run from second.

 

Then you have the bullpen full of bozos that can't pitch in the late innings with a lead.

Dye has always been awkward in the field, I guess that normally comes with being 6-feet-5-inches and 240 pounds. Even his diving catches look odd. But he's got an arm. Iguchi has never been that slick of a fielder, but that's not why we signed him.

Edited May 19, 2007 by AirScott

[whitesoxfan101]

Dye has always been awkward in the field, I guess that normally comes with being 6-feet-5-inches and 240 pounds. But he's got an arm. Iguchi has never been that slick of a fielder, but that's not why we signed him.

 

They have both had HUGE dropoffs this year though. Iguchi has went from average to piss poor, and Dye from akward to drunken looking.

[fathom]

Dye has always been awkward in the field, I guess that normally comes with being 6-feet-5-inches and 240 pounds. Even his diving catches look odd. But he's got an arm. Iguchi has never been that slick of a fielder, but that's not why we signed him.

 

I don't think there's much doubt that Dye is the worst overall defensive right fielder in baseball. His arm might be strong, but it's not effective because he's not aggressive in charging the ball. At least we haven't had any of the annual Jermaine Dye dropped fly balls yet.

[Whitewashed in '05]

It's called being unathletic and aging. It's sad to see how teams have easy it is for teams to score on gappers against the Sox.

Which is exactly why we need a real replacement in center before the season is over.

 

Dye has always been awkward in the field, I guess that normally comes with being 6-feet-5-inches and 240 pounds. Even his diving catches look odd. But he's got an arm. Iguchi has never been that slick of a fielder, but that's not why we signed him.

Last year he did a good job turning the double play and going to short right field on ground outs. This year has has cost the sox some runs not being able to turn 2.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

A firesale hurts this team for a lot longer than you guys think. Sure it gives you some talent, that may or may not help you. But a fire sale will kill attendance. A fire sale + cubs doing well will bury it. It will taper off later this year. If we are fielding a rebuilding team next year, they will see less renewals on the ticket plans. And without that revenue, the salary of our team will drop. Its a vicious circle.

 

Hopefully they can turn this around.

You are absolutely correct.

 

The Sox need to add a couple of key pieces in the next month or two, not subtract. Since the Sox don't have anything in their minor league system to help, they must overpay financially to fill holes. This is why they should be looking to pick up a couple of high priced guys by taking on some contracts while giving up little in talent in return.

 

The Sox have been playing like crap and they're still over .500 and well within reach of first place with a lot of time to go. If they would only start playing up to their career norms, they would be right up there near the top. Adding a couple of key pieces can put them over the top.

 

A fire sale would only guarantee the end of the current WS window and would guarantee nothing for the next few years.

 

The Sox have to keep attendance up this year so they have the resources to replace the guys everyone is saying need to be replaced for next year. There is no one in the farm system that will help, so they need to pay for top tier talent. They have to operate like a big market team.

Edited May 20, 2007 by South Side Fireworks Man

[RibbieRubarb]

You little kids have no idea how to love a team. It either win everything or nothing for you. When we win a game it's "YEAH"!!! When we lose it's "Fire EVERYONE!!!"

You are too bi-polar. You are obviously a young, spoiled group who grew up under a Bulls Championship dynasty. I grew up in an era where Chicago had NO championships for the longest time.

Instead of savoring it...you spit it out and wanted seconds.

You have no clue what's its like to wait your whole life for ONE Championship.

 

You got it and you greedy, ungrateful lot demand 162-0 seasons since.

Can you be disappointed by a loss...yes.

But, there is a balance to being a TRUE fan.

 

Big deal what Cubs fans think. They are going on 100 years without tasting what we tasted a year and half ago.

 

I'm sorry...TRUE White Sox fans DO NOT act the way the unfortunate vocal ones on this board act.

[whitesoxfan101]

You little kids have no idea how to love a team. It either win everything or nothing for you. When we win a game it's "YEAH"!!! When we lose it's "Fire EVERYONE!!!"

You are too bi-polar. You are obviously a young, spoiled group who grew up under a Bulls Championship dynasty. I grew up in an era where Chicago had NO championships for the longest time.

Instead of savoring it...you spit it out and wanted seconds.

You have no clue what's its like to wait your whole life for ONE Championship.

 

You got it and you greedy, ungrateful lot demand 162-0 seasons since.

Can you be disappointed by a loss...yes.

But, there is a balance to being a TRUE fan.

 

Big deal what Cubs fans think. They are going on 100 years without tasting what we tasted a year and half ago.

 

I'm sorry...TRUE White Sox fans DO NOT act the way the unfortunate vocal ones on this board act.

 

So I'm not a true fan for wanting to deal with mediocrity and having an organization that is nowhere near success right now? I love when the old farts call out younger fans for having a hunger for success and not being happy when things aren't going well.

 

Loving a team means watching and following them as much as humanly possible and going to the games, and I will do that and have done that always. No matter what. So shut your yap.

Edited May 20, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[South Side Fireworks Man]

You little kids have no idea how to love a team. It either win everything or nothing for you. When we win a game it's "YEAH"!!! When we lose it's "Fire EVERYONE!!!"

You are too bi-polar. You are obviously a young, spoiled group who grew up under a Bulls Championship dynasty. I grew up in an era where Chicago had NO championships for the longest time.

Instead of savoring it...you spit it out and wanted seconds.

You have no clue what's its like to wait your whole life for ONE Championship.

 

You got it and you greedy, ungrateful lot demand 162-0 seasons since.

Can you be disappointed by a loss...yes.

But, there is a balance to being a TRUE fan.

 

Big deal what Cubs fans think. They are going on 100 years without tasting what we tasted a year and half ago.

 

I'm sorry...TRUE White Sox fans DO NOT act the way the unfortunate vocal ones on this board act.

[RibbieRubarb]

So I'm not a true fan for wanting to deal with mediocrity and having an organization that is nowhere near success right now? I love when the old farts call out younger fans for having a hunger for success and not being happy when things aren't going well.

 

Loving a team means watching and following them as much as humanly possible and going to the games, and I will do that and have done that always. No matter what. So shut your yap.

 

No..you love to hate this team more than you love them. Thats what's sad. The blind negativity is what makes you a poor fan.

 

You demand perfection in a game where if you fail 7 out 10 times batting you're an All-Star.

 

I'm not saying you need to grow up...just mature. Reactionary negativity is not mature.

[whitesoxfan101]

No..you love to hate this team more than you love them. Thats what's sad. The blind negativity is what makes you a poor fan.

 

You demand perfection in a game where if you fail 7 out 10 times batting you're an All-Star.

 

I'm not saying you need to grow up...just mature. Reactionary negativity is not mature.

 

Our guys are failing at the dish 8 times out of 10 though, not 7

 

And I love this team beyond belief, otherwise I would not deal with this nonsense. But I always have and always will. Maybe my standards are too high, but at least I care enough to get mad when we fail. That's what a true fan is all about.

[greasywheels121]

No..you love to hate this team more than you love them. Thats what's sad. The blind negativity is what makes you a poor fan.

 

You demand perfection in a game where if you fail 7 out 10 times batting you're an All-Star.

 

I'm not saying you need to grow up...just mature. Reactionary negativity is not mature.

 

 

2005 has definitely made me a lot softer on this team. I don't know if that's permanent, or it's just part of a cushion for doing the unthinkable--but this team is far from controlling my emotions win or lose like it did before getting the rings.

 

I don't know if one mindset equates to being a truer fan than another; however, it definitely equates to being crazier. So all I can really do is laugh at these threads sometimes. It's got to hurt jumping off a bridge every other day.

 

Our guys are failing at the dish 8 times out of 10 though, not 7

 

And I love this team beyond belief, otherwise I would not deal with this nonsense. But I always have and always will. Maybe my standards are too high, but at least I care enough to get mad when we fail. That's what a true fan is all about.

 

I might still get mad, but this team doesn't own my emotions to that unhealthy extent (kind of what you're claiming). I realize this is only a game, and it's not the end all that some people try to make it out to be.

[whitesoxfan101]

 

2005 has definitely made me a lot softer on this team. I don't know if that's permanent, or it's just part of a cushion for doing the unthinkable--but this team is far from controlling my emotions win or lose like it did before getting the rings.

 

I don't know if one mindset equates to being a truer fan than another; however, it definitely equates to being crazier. So all I can really do is laugh at these threads sometimes. It's got to hurt jumping off a bridge every other day.

 

I had been calm the entire season about this team, which is bizarre for me. I just can't take the last 2 days, blowing leads to a horrendous team and not hitting their equally horrendous bullpen. 2005 softened me up so as I get over bad years once the offseason starts (SEE: this last winter), but I will always been borderline bi-polar about the Sox. It's not healthy, I'll admit, but at least I care.

 

I might still get mad, but this team doesn't own my emotions to that unhealthy extent (kind of what you're claiming). I realize this is only a game, and it's not the end all that some people try to make it out to be.

 

They USUALLY don't own my emotions anymore, which is the 2005 affect. But certain things still get to me. One day I'll learn....

[greasywheels121]

I had been calm the entire season about this team, which is bizarre for me. I just can't take the last 2 days, blowing leads to a horrendous team and not hitting their equally horrendous bullpen. 2005 softened me up so as I get over bad years once the offseason starts (SEE: this last winter), but I will always been borderline bi-polar about the Sox. It's not healthy, I'll admit, but at least I care.

 

I still care, but I kind of enjoy not having that game's results affect what kind of mood I will be in until the start of the next game. But maybe I'm just crazy for liking that.

[RibbieRubarb]

Our guys are failing at the dish 8 times out of 10 though, not 7

 

And I love this team beyond belief, otherwise I would not deal with this nonsense. But I always have and always will. Maybe my standards are too high, but at least I care enough to get mad when we fail. That's what a true fan is all about.

 

Please. We never see a thread or post from you unless its a loss. You crave the negativity. That's sad. You need to be realistic, which you are not. Two losses to the Cubs in May and you say we should blow up this team. Thats not being realistic, thats being extreme to the point of absurdity. Not how a true fan thinks.

[southsideirish71]

I had been calm the entire season about this team, which is bizarre for me. I just can't take the last 2 days, blowing leads to a horrendous team and not hitting their equally horrendous bullpen. 2005 softened me up so as I get over bad years once the offseason starts (SEE: this last winter), but I will always been borderline bi-polar about the Sox. It's not healthy, I'll admit, but at least I care.

They USUALLY don't own my emotions anymore, which is the 2005 affect. But certain things still get to me. One day I'll learn....

 

The only part of this team that has been disappointing is the offense. If we have a medicore offense we are in first. When the game ends, I drink a beer and if I need to vent I do it here. I dont vent to my wife, I dont let it affect my work. Its a game. I have lived and died with this team since the 70s, but only in the baseball sense. This is my sport outside of Celtic Football. I could care less if the bulls/bears/fire or whatever plays. This is my team though. I would love for them to win every game. The two last games have been sad, and dealing with the ribbing is hard at work. But in a month, we get our turn on the southside.

 

For me I like Massett and think that he can be a good starter for us in the long run. A lot of people are down on him, however I am looking forward to seeing what he can do tomorrow. You cant blow up this team, and KW wont. He has a nice brand working for him in Chicago and he has made a large set of strides with making a good buck in this town. You cant have a fire sale 2 years out of the WS. That would be nuts.

 

I am going to go into my yard, drink a beer and enjoy the rest of my evening. I suggest you do the same. You can vent on here, and also cheer on here. But to say it affects you personally and you outside of a web board is a bit much.

[whitesoxfan101]

I am going to go into my yard, drink a beer and enjoy the rest of my evening. I suggest you do the same. You can vent on here, and also cheer on here. But to say it affects you personally and you outside of a web board is a bit much.

 

I am. I'm watching the end of the Charlotte game, or staying until 9, whatever comes first, and then I'm going out. My life isn't ruined over today, it just bothers me.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

So I'm not a true fan for wanting to deal with mediocrity and having an organization that is nowhere near success right now? I love when the old farts call out younger fans for having a hunger for success and not being happy when things aren't going well.

 

Loving a team means watching and following them as much as humanly possible and going to the games, and I will do that and have done that always. No matter what. So shut your yap.

 

Maybe the "old farts" have learned a thing or 2 that you have yet failed to grasp. This is not , I repeat, not your video game or your fantasy league. Poor you , you don't want to deal with mediocrity. Guess what ? If the Sox are mediocre do you know what you can do about it ? Nadda, zip, zilch, zero. Do we like mediocrity ? No , but us "old farts" are more inclined to worry about more important things in life than salaries or how many options so and so has left and the minor league system and players of all the other major league teams. Does that mean we care less about the Sox ? No, we're just a little more inclined to put things in the proper perspective. So next time you feel like telling someone to "shut your yap" maybe you should say it while looking in the mirror.

[whitesoxfan101]

Please. We never see a thread or post from you unless its a loss. You crave the negativity. That's sad. You need to be realistic, which you are not. Two losses to the Cubs in May and you say we should blow up this team. Thats not being realistic, thats being extreme to the point of absurdity. Not how a true fan thinks.

 

I don't start threads unless they are negative usually since I'm beaten to the punch on everything else, but I post over here all the time in general.

 

Maybe the "old farts" have learned a thing or 2 that you have yet failed to grasp. This is not , I repeat, not your video game or your fantasy league. Poor you , you don't want to deal with mediocrity. Guess what ? If the Sox are mediocre do you know what you can do about it ? Nadda, zip, zilch, zero. Do we like mediocrity ? No , but us "old farts" are more inclined to worry about more important things in life than salaries or how many options so and so has left and the minor league system and players of all the other major league teams. Does that mean we care less about the Sox ? No, we're just a little more inclined to put things in the proper perspective. So next time you feel like telling someone to "shut your yap" maybe you should say it while looking in the mirror.

 

That is all accurate, and completely different from what the other guy was saying. He was basically saying i'm not a real fan for being unhappy (which is stupid), not that I need to put things in better perspetive (which is accurate, what you said).

 

For me I like Massett and think that he can be a good starter for us in the long run. A lot of people are down on him, however I am looking forward to seeing what he can do tomorrow.

 

This I agree with.