That's it, blow the whole f***ing thing up

[RibbieRubarb]

That is all accurate, and completely different from what the other guy was saying. He was basically saying i'm not a real fan for being unhappy (which is stupid), not that I need to put things in better perspetive

 

Incorrect again. I said you can be disappointed and unhappy (all fans are, I am), but you go immediately to the extreme end of it. You aren't unhappy and speculating what the team can do to improve. No, you spit out absurd notions of "Firesale in May, Blow the team up, Fire Ozzie" after almost every loss. Thats whats wrong with you.

Edited May 20, 2007 by RibbieRubarb

[whitesoxfan101]

Incorrect again. I said you can be disappointed and unhappy (all fans are, I am), but you go immediately to the extreme end of it. You aren't unhappy and speculating what the team can do to improve. No, you spit out absurd notions of "Firesale in May, Blow the team up, Fire Ozzie" after almost every loss. Thats whats wrong with you.

 

The team is going to need to be blown up in July if this keeps up, and i'd be surprised if it doesn't (and I'll admit I was wrong if it turns out that way). And I'm not alone with my Ozzie thoughts, you have a bigger choir to preach to in defending him. A new manager is the biggest way we can improve right now short of health.

[RibbieRubarb]

The team is going to need to be blown up in July if this keeps up, and i'd be surprised if it doesn't (and I'll admit I was wrong if it turns out that way). And I'm not alone with my Ozzie thoughts, you have a bigger choir to preach to in defending him. A new manager is the biggest way we can improve right now short of health.

 

I didn't say you weren't the only one around here with problems.

[whitesoxfan101]

I didn't say you weren't the only one around here with problems.

 

 

In that case, ok.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

I think it would help everyone if we could tone down the emotions a little while analyzing the team. I don't think this thing is gonna work. The concept started out this way: improve the pen, get Buehrle right again, hope that Danks was the real deal, and get another year out of our aging sluggers. Some of that worked, obviously, but the pen and the sluggers - not so much. KW watches the game too, and has to know at least that things aren't working yet. Eventually he's gonna see that we're not playoff bound. Then he's gonna make a few trades - not a firesale - but a few that will get two parts for every one he's moving. I think he'll trade Dye and Buehrle, and wind up with prospects, as in a second baseman, an outfielder who can lead off, and some pitching. A young catcher wouldn't hurt, but I think that's less likely.

 

But everyone - try not to take our struggles so personally. They're not trying to hurt your feelings. They're just not that great a team.

[Dick Allen]

I think tomorrow could be interesting. The wind will be blowing in, so runs should be tough to come by. I hope Zambrano doesn't have his control and struggles early like he's done several times this season. A 3 or 4 run lead should be safe tomorrow even for the White Sox bullpen.

[29thandPoplar]

QUOTE(fathom @ May 19, 2007 -> 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think there's much doubt that Dye is the worst overall defensive right fielder in baseball.

 

There isn't much doubt about it? Juan Encarnacion, Nelson Cruz, Brian Giles, to name a few.

[caulfield12]

You are absolutely correct.

 

The Sox need to add a couple of key pieces in the next month or two, not subtract. Since the Sox don't have anything in their minor league system to help, they must overpay financially to fill holes. This is why they should be looking to pick up a couple of high priced guys by taking on some contracts while giving up little in talent in return.

 

The Sox have been playing like crap and they're still over .500 and well within reach of first place with a lot of time to go. If they would only start playing up to their career norms, they would be right up there near the top. Adding a couple of key pieces can put them over the top.

 

A fire sale would only guarantee the end of the current WS window and would guarantee nothing for the next few years.

 

The Sox have to keep attendance up this year so they have the resources to replace the guys everyone is saying need to be replaced for next year. There is no one in the farm system that will help, so they need to pay for top tier talent. They have to operate like a big market team.

 

 

Last year was the time to go out and do that, and KW flinched.

 

He's flinching again by not re-signing or extending Dye, Buehrle, Crede and Iguchi, among others.

 

The fact is, we can't add $10-20 million onto this payroll without dire consequences for the future...let's say the Sox still finish around .500 and attendance tumbles and JR decides we can't keep Konerko, Thome, some of our starting pitchers and the one or two new vets (like an Abreu) that have been added to the payroll.

 

We'll be forced to sell those assets off and potentially give away what pitching prospects we have just to get our contracts cleared and off the books.

 

The White Sox have NEVER operated this way. Our mentality is, well, we're paying Pods $2.9 million and he MIGHT come back and we have Sweeney/Mack/Ozuna, so why make a move? We have Erstad and we're only paying him $1.25 million, so why grab someone making $10-15 million? We have Dye, and he's only making $7 million and putting up MVP numbers....

 

You can already see the window of opportunity to take the city back for the White Sox...not just because we've lost 2 in a row to the Cubs, but because we didn't do anything in the 2nd half last season and we "stood pat" in terms of improving the ballclub significantly for 2007.

 

Now KW is stuck...make some desperate moves and his job is gone and it's 5 years before the Sox are back in the playoffs again (not to mention Minnesota will be able to increase revenues with their new stadium). Do a fire sale and you can get back in 2-3 years, but risk alienating your fan base, like we've now done twice (a mini-version in 2002). The Indians started deconstructing in 2002/03 and they have the luxury of one of the best all-time trades, Sizemore/Lee/Phillips for Colon. We don't have a similar asset to Colon in his prime to trade off, unfortunately.

[TheBigHurt]

Wow, I missed the game today. I come home to check the scores and see that the Sox had a lead in the 8th and yet lost by giving up a bunch of runs. This is ridiculous.

 

But yet, everyone, STFU about this reuilding and blowup stuff. What we need is a new bullpen. I'm seriously not worried about the offense. They scored 6 today, right? The offense will come around, and seems like it is. The bullpen, mainy these younger guys Kenny raves about, are sucking.

[Flash Tizzle]

Did I miss something with the squirrel avatars and signatures?

[Dick Allen]

I know right, whats with all these young players having struggles????

That's a good point. Maybe if struggling is to be expected, which I agree that it probably is with young players, the bullpen of a team expecting to win a championship shouldn't be loaded with them.

 

Phil Rogers has an interesting article today. The White Sox are 54-62 since right before the ASB last season. Maybe that's where they are at and nothing much more than that can be expected from this group. I wouldn't say blow it up as the topic of this thread suggests, but I would say its time for some changes. Its doesn't look like where we and the White Sox want this team to be in October is likely or even possible with the current arrangement.

Edited May 20, 2007 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

That's a good point. Maybe if struggling is to be expected, which I agree that it probably is with young players, the bullpen of a team expecting to win a championship shouldn't be loaded with them.

 

Phil Rogers has an interesting article today. The White Sox are 54-62 since right before the ASB last season. Maybe that's where they are at and nothing much more than that can be expected from this group. I wouldn't say blow it up as the topic of this thread suggests, but I would say its time for some changes. Its doesn't look like where we and the White Sox want this team to be in October is likely or even possible with the current arrangement.

 

And we're last in the American League in runs scored since that point in time...coincidence, I think not? I've been e-mailing him these pre and post ASB comparisons (#1 offense in first half, #9 in 2nd half of 06, last in 07) and perhaps we are all coming around to this viewpoint that we're an average team. We've all been holding on too long to the idea we have too much talent not to go on a tear and get to 15-20 games over .500, as we did in 2005 and the first three months in 06. Those days are gone for at least 2-3 years, I'm afraid.

 

Our pitching has been fine during that time period, Jenks had some problems down the stretch last year, but it was our offense that has killed us (largely) during this new epoch in Sox baseball. Combine that with the shaky bullpen in April-June of 06 and our 9 blown saves (already in 07), resulting directly in 6 losses, and we're pretty much screwed.

 

We can be incredibly proud of our 163-90 stretch of baseball from April of 05 through July of 06 (including the playoffs), it might never be matched again in White Sox history for all we know.

Edited May 20, 2007 by caulfield12

[beck72]

Phil Rogers has an interesting article today. The White Sox are 54-62 since right before the ASB last season. Maybe that's where they are at and nothing much more than that can be expected from this group. I wouldn't say blow it up as the topic of this thread suggests, but I would say its time for some changes. Its doesn't look like where we and the White Sox want this team to be in October is likely or even possible with the current arrangement.

 

The 2006 Post ASB sox and the 2007 sox are not having the same problems. For Rogers and us to say they are the same sub .500 team and not much better isn't right. Both had/ have bullpen issues. Yet the sox did pretty well trying to get a better group in without signing guys to ridiculous contracts [MacDougal has to be included as well, as he was added in the 2nd half; And of the free agents, who really would have been better than what the sox have?]. I also expect the bullpen to come around, as they have good stuff with some success. Right now, they are hitting a very rough patch. I have more faith in the sox pen coming around. At least they aren't old, hurt or have weak stuff, like most pens around the league.

 

The 2006 offense still hit well, not as well as in the 1st half. And the 2007 starters are doing very well, which was the biggest reason for the drop off in the 2nd half.

 

If the sox are close around the trade deadline, I'd expect KW to make a splash to improve the team [the sox have some depth that most teams won't part with]. Just get to the playoffs and a team can win. I could see Ichiro brought in to help win now, and as a trial run for 2008. Few other teams will be willing and able to go after Ichiro. The sox are one of them.

[caulfield12]

The 2006 Post ASB sox and the 2007 sox are not having the same problems. For Rogers and us to say they are the same sub .500 team and not much better isn't right. Both had/ have bullpen issues. Yet the sox did pretty well trying to get a better group in without signing guys to ridiculous contracts [MacDougal has to be included as well, as he was added in the 2nd half; And of the free agents, who really would have been better than what the sox have?]. I also expect the bullpen to come around, as they have good stuff with some success. Right now, they are hitting a very rough patch. I have more faith in the sox pen coming around. At least they aren't old, hurt or have weak stuff, like most pens around the league.

 

The 2006 offense still hit well, not as well as in the 1st half. And the 2007 starters are doing very well, which was the biggest reason for the drop off in the 2nd half.

 

If the sox are close around the trade deadline, I'd expect KW to make a splash to improve the team [the sox have some depth that most teams won't part with]. Just get to the playoffs and a team can win. I could see Ichiro brought in to help win now, and as a trial run for 2008. Few other teams will be willing and able to go after Ichiro. The sox are one of them.

 

 

Does JR have the cajones to allow KW to re-sign Ichiro (at his age) to a huge deal, especially if we miss the playoffs this year? I sincerely doubt it...or I'll put it this way, I will believe it when I see it happen. Are we a small market team afraid of our big market potential (because we've operated like that so long) or are we trying to operate like a large market team but afraid of making that one disastrous move financially that only the Yankees and Red Sox can absorb?

 

I would love to see an outfield of a .260 or above Sweeney, Ertad and Ichiro defensively, but we don't have a LF right now. The best we can do is the Mack/Ozuna platoon again...and that's just not going to work over the course of an entire season IMO.

 

We're chasing the A's, Yankees, Indians/Tigers (now 5 games back of both) and, in all likelihood since you can NEVER count them out, the Twins.

 

We would have been much better off adding Ichiro last year...or Abreu, or Soriano, or someone. The pitching wasn't THAT bad, it was simply Buehrle and Contreras was so-so, but Garland and Vazquez pitched very well in the 2nd half (no wins for Javier to show for his efforts) and Garcia was also hit and miss, not pitching well until the Sox were pretty much out of it.

[beck72]

And we're last in the American League in runs scored since that point in time...coincidence, I think not? I've been e-mailing him these pre and post ASB comparisons (#1 offense in first half, #9 in 2nd half of 06, last in 07) and perhaps we are all coming around to this viewpoint that we're an average team. We've all been holding on too long to the idea we have too much talent not to go on a tear and get to 15-20 games over .500, as we did in 2005 and the first three months in 06. Those days are gone for at least 2-3 years, I'm afraid.

 

Our pitching has been fine during that time period, Jenks had some problems down the stretch last year, but it was our offense that has killed us (largely) during this new epoch in Sox baseball. Combine that with the shaky bullpen in April-June of 06 and our 9 blown saves (already in 07), resulting directly in 6 losses, and we're pretty much screwed.

 

We can be incredibly proud of our 163-90 stretch of baseball from April of 05 through July of 06 (including the playoffs), it might never be matched again in White Sox history for all we know.

That's too simplistic. The sox offense wasn't the cause of their problems in the 2nd half of 2006. Sure they didn't hit as well as in the 1st half. Yet they were 9th in runs scored, 12th in avg, 13th in OBP, 2nd in SLG and 2nd in HR's Post ASB in 06. This year, they are last in everything except HR's which they are 8th.

 

Now is the problem the sox are too old, they are washed up and need to be dismantled? the sox do need to get younger/ different type hitters while still being productive. But if they can't hit come the deadline, yes, trade some pieces. But they started well both in 2005 and 2006. They deserve a chance to get their bats to awaken. Anyway, what is the alternative until the deadline?

 

There were few deals to be made in the offseason that could have helped the sox get younger/ faster/ more productive. What deals could have been made other teams wanted outrageous bounties, such as for Baldelli. Or guys like Pierre, Roberts or Matthews might help in the short term but will probably be huge mistakes in the near future.

 

All this is going to take time to sort out, unless the sox tank and go 10 games under by the break, which I don't see happening. If they are around a playoff birth, I'd expect some deals to be made to improve their chances. KW sees as well as us fans that Dye and Mark might not be around in 2008 and the time is this year to make a run for the playoffs [though at the same time that won't jeapordize the long term prospects of the sox winning].

 

We would have been much better off adding Ichiro last year...or Abreu, or Soriano, or someone. The pitching wasn't THAT bad, it was simply Buehrle and Contreras was so-so, but Garland and Vazquez pitched very well in the 2nd half (no wins for Javier to show for his efforts) and Garcia was also hit and miss, not pitching well until the Sox were pretty much out of it.

 

Ichiro wasn't available. Abreu only plays RF and wound't have replaced Dye. And Soriano should only play DH. The deals to improve the offense were only available on X box. IMO, it's far too early to count the offense out. They are more likely to improve than not.

 

The deals to improve the pitching were made and in some cases, not made. Both the starters and the bullpen look in better shape.

[caulfield12]

That's too simplistic. The sox offense wasn't the cause of their problems in the 2nd half of 2006. Sure they didn't hit as well as in the 1st half. Yet they were 9th in runs scored, 12th in avg, 13th in OBP, 2nd in SLG and 2nd in HR's Post ASB in 06. This year, they are last in everything except HR's which they are 8th.

 

Now is the problem the sox are too old, they are washed up and need to be dismantled? the sox do need to get younger/ different type hitters while still being productive. But if they can't hit come the deadline, yes, trade some pieces. But they started well both in 2005 and 2006. They deserve a chance to get their bats to awaken. Anyway, what is the alternative until the deadline?

 

There were few deals to be made in the offseason that could have helped the sox get younger/ faster/ more productive. What deals could have been made other teams wanted outrageous bounties, such as for Baldelli. Or guys like Pierre, Roberts or Matthews might help in the short term but will probably be huge mistakes in the near future.

 

All this is going to take time to sort out, unless the sox tank and go 10 games under by the break, which I don't see happening. If they are around a playoff birth, I'd expect some deals to be made to improve their chances. KW sees as well as us fans that Dye and Mark might not be around in 2008 and the time is this year to make a run for the playoffs [though at the same time that won't jeapordize the long term prospects of the sox winning].

 

 

There is no alternative. The best option is someone like Willy Mo Pena, who severely hurts our defense, and we already have a DH in Dye playing the outfield as it is.

 

I'm sure if you broke down 2006 into three segments (April/May...June/July...August/Sept.) you would see the incremental drop-off, followed by the sheer cliff drop into an abyss or chasm from which we can't seem to extricate ourselves without going outside the organization.

 

We can all agree Pierre, Roberts and Baldelli would have been disasters, if they replicated what they were doing with other teams or their injury status. Matthews was the Gil Meche of the outfield contracts, a real head scratcher. I think we would have crucified KW had he made the same move that Stoneman made over in LA.

 

We can't go out and get a couple of veteran/proven relievers and add a hitter or two without sacrificing our future.

 

Who could we possibly trade off our current 25 man roster that wouldn't hurt us just as much as helping us.

 

Which leaves the only move trading Gio Gonzalez or Adam Russell, and MAYBE Fields. If we do that now, why wouldn't we done it in 2006 when it might have been enough to spark that offense back to life? That team was arguably in a much better position to get to the playoffs than the 2007 White Sox are.

 

I'm not a Mariotti fan by ANY stretch, but his harping about letting the Cubs take the city back and how KW missed a golden opportunity in 2006 was spot-on. Maybe the only thing he's been right about in 5-10 years.

 

That's too simplistic. The sox offense wasn't the cause of their problems in the 2nd half of 2006. Sure they didn't hit as well as in the 1st half. Yet they were 9th in runs scored, 12th in avg, 13th in OBP, 2nd in SLG and 2nd in HR's Post ASB in 06. This year, they are last in everything except HR's which they are 8th.

 

Now is the problem the sox are too old, they are washed up and need to be dismantled? the sox do need to get younger/ different type hitters while still being productive. But if they can't hit come the deadline, yes, trade some pieces. But they started well both in 2005 and 2006. They deserve a chance to get their bats to awaken. Anyway, what is the alternative until the deadline?

 

There were few deals to be made in the offseason that could have helped the sox get younger/ faster/ more productive. What deals could have been made other teams wanted outrageous bounties, such as for Baldelli. Or guys like Pierre, Roberts or Matthews might help in the short term but will probably be huge mistakes in the near future.

 

All this is going to take time to sort out, unless the sox tank and go 10 games under by the break, which I don't see happening. If they are around a playoff birth, I'd expect some deals to be made to improve their chances. KW sees as well as us fans that Dye and Mark might not be around in 2008 and the time is this year to make a run for the playoffs [though at the same time that won't jeapordize the long term prospects of the sox winning].

Ichiro wasn't available. Abreu only plays RF and wound't have replaced Dye. And Soriano should only play DH. The deals to improve the offense were only available on X box. IMO, it's far too early to count the offense out. They are more likely to improve than not.

 

The deals to improve the pitching were made and in some cases, not made. Both the starters and the bullpen look in better shape.

 

 

I do think we would have been better off keeping Riske or adding Haeger to the pen, just for a change from the line-up of 92-94 MPH guys. Having a Myers would have been nice too, we haven't had that LOOGY since Kelly Wunsch was healthy (obviously not sold on Logan just yet). The Red Sox bought him expressly to combat David Ortiz. I think 14% of his appearances last year were against Big Papi. In fact, the Red Sox are still using Javier Lopez and we have nothing to show for what looked to be a one-sided trade for KW.

 

We could have moved Dye to LF if we had to...he could have adjusted. That would have given us Abreu in RF and Dye in LF, a much better defensive alignment. And Abreu's contract would have been off the books after 2008, coinciding with the maturation of the deals for AJ, Garland and Crede.

[beck72]

I'm sure if you broke down 2006 into three segments (April/May...June/July...August/Sept.) you would see the incremental drop-off, followed by the sheer cliff drop into an abyss or chasm from which we can't seem to extricate ourselves without going outside the organization.

 

We can't go out and get a couple of veteran/proven relievers and add a hitter or two without sacrificing our future.

 

Who could we possibly trade off our current 25 man roster that wouldn't hurt us just as much as helping us.

 

Which leaves the only move trading Gio Gonzalez or Adam Russell, and MAYBE Fields. If we do that now, why wouldn't we done it in 2006 when it might have been enough to spark that offense back to life? That team was arguably in a much better position to get to the playoffs than the 2007 White Sox are.

 

I'm not a Mariotti fan by ANY stretch, but his harping about letting the Cubs take the city back and how KW missed a golden opportunity in 2006 was spot-on. Maybe the only thing he's been right about in 5-10 years.

A few things:

 

Maybe I missed the poor pitching by both the bullpen and starters that essentially tanked the sox 2006 preseason hopes. That difference maker bat was never available last year or in the offseason [what other team besides the yanks improved much at the deadline?]. The sox need a 1-4 type young hitter to build around. Though signing a guy like Ichiro for 4, 5 years could work just as well. That would open up things for the power guys like PK and Thome. And allow the young guys like Sweeney, Fields and Anderson to work themselves into the league.

 

But when the sox key hitters like PK, Dye, Iguchi, Crede, AJ, Uribe all can't hit at the same time, all the deals in the world won't help them win. Most of those bats will wake up. Hopefully in time for the sox to go on a run with the pitching. If not, it'll be a long summer.

 

Who really cares about taking the city and Mariotti? Making the playoffs on a year in year out basis is the only thing that matters. The sox weren't made for a dynasty after 2005. But KW did improve the 2006 team with Thome and Javy. And he has now positioned the sox to win each year with the pitching.

 

The Cubs aren't important. If they want to spend $400 million who cares? The long term outlook for the cubs is dreadful. They'll be saddled with horrible contracts and be unable to fill glaring holes. The sox should be far more consistent, win more games in the reg. season and playoffs in the next decade than the Cubs--which is all that matters.

[gosox41]

Not sure I agree with everything, but there needs to be a major-shake up in some form. We aren't going to go to the play-offs hovering around .500 all season.

 

 

For starters, how about not pitching Logan in a tight game until he gets more confidence. He's 3rd on the depth chart of 3 lefties.

 

 

Bob

[caulfield12]

A few things:

 

Maybe I missed the poor pitching by both the bullpen and starters that essentially tanked the sox 2006 preseason hopes. That difference maker bat was never available last year or in the offseason [what other team besides the yanks improved much at the deadline?]. The sox need a 1-4 type young hitter to build around. Though signing a guy like Ichiro for 4, 5 years could work just as well. That would open up things for the power guys like PK and Thome. And allow the young guys like Sweeney, Fields and Anderson to work themselves into the league.

 

But when the sox key hitters like PK, Dye, Iguchi, Crede, AJ, Uribe all can't hit at the same time, all the deals in the world won't help them win. Most of those bats will wake up. Hopefully in time for the sox to go on a run with the pitching. If not, it'll be a long summer.

 

Who really cares about taking the city and Mariotti? Making the playoffs on a year in year out basis is the only thing that matters. The sox weren't made for a dynasty after 2005. But KW did improve the 2006 team with Thome and Javy. And he has now positioned the sox to win each year with the pitching.

 

The Cubs aren't important. If they want to spend $400 million who cares? The long term outlook for the cubs is dreadful. They'll be saddled with horrible contracts and be unable to fill glaring holes. The sox should be far more consistent, win more games in the reg. season and playoffs in the next decade than the Cubs--which is all that matters.

 

 

Long-term, those contracts will catch up with them, especially for Soriano.

 

Short-term, they did what they had to do to bring the momentum back to their side. And I would still be saying that, if we were looking to sweep them this afternoon.

 

They're simply in a much easier division, and the Brewers are the same number of games up on the Cubs that the Tigers and Indians are on us, except we all know how good those Tigers and Indians teams are.

 

It would be an interesting discussion...which would be the better to team to own right now and for the future?

Both farm systems are pretty abysmal. The Cubs have a better bench, the bullpens are a dead heat arguably.

 

The Cubs are getting offense from their entire team, with the exception of Izturis, who has been replaced adequarely for now by Theriot. You would have to take their infield over ours. Catcher is about even.

If the outfields play as expected, the Cubs have the advantage there.

 

The biggest question marks are what happen to Buehrle and Zambrano...they have Hill, we have Danks.

You have to give our starting rotation the advantage due to the depth, and the fact that Lilly and Marquis looked more like 4th/5th starters than aces coming into this season.

[fathom]

If the sox are close around the trade deadline, I'd expect KW to make a splash to improve the team [the sox have some depth that most teams won't part with]. Just get to the playoffs and a team can win. I could see Ichiro brought in to help win now, and as a trial run for 2008. Few other teams will be willing and able to go after Ichiro. The sox are one of them.

 

The Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, and Cubs could all go after Ichiro....we're not winning a bidding war against those teams.

 

The Cubs aren't important. If they want to spend $400 million who cares? The long term outlook for the cubs is dreadful. They'll be saddled with horrible contracts and be unable to fill glaring holes. The sox should be far more consistent, win more games in the reg. season and playoffs in the next decade than the Cubs--which is all that matters.

 

I'd trade our next 5 years for the Cubs next 5 years. Most of the teams in their division are on the decline, while basically every team in our division looks to be improving over the next 5 years. Don't forget the Cubs have the 3rd pick in this upcoming draft, and their new owner will likely spend a fortune to bring in talent.

[caulfield12]

The Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, and Cubs could all go after Ichiro....we're not winning a bidding war against those teams.

 

 

I doubt Zell would countenance such a move, because the Cubs' revenue is pretty much maxxed out for the year already, it's hard for a media conglomerate to do a cost-benefit analysis and justify adding another $15 million per season.

 

I'm not even convinced that a Zambrano deal will ever be done, now.

 

The Yankees would want to replace Abreu, Matsui, Damon? Not sure about that one. They might get the M's to take Cabrera, but they have nobody else the M's would want.

 

They're not going to trade Philip Hughes or Cano, so there's not really anything of interest besides Cabrera on their roster, and that's far from enough to get a possible Ichiro deal through.

 

Every team needs pitching, and I think Rasner might be on the DL now, after getting hit by a ball up the middle yesterday. I would guess the Red Sox, Mets or Angels.

[fathom]

I doubt Zell would countenance such a move, because the Cubs' revenue is pretty much maxxed out for the year already, it's hard for a media conglomerate to do a cost-benefit analysis and justify adding another $15 million per season.

 

I'm not even convinced that a Zambrano deal will ever be done, now.

 

The Yankees would want to replace Abreu, Matsui, Damon? Not sure about that one. They might get the M's to take Cabrera, but they have nobody else the M's would want.

 

They're not going to trade Philip Hughes or Cano, so there's not really anything of interest besides Cabrera on their roster, and that's far from enough to get a possible Ichiro deal through.

 

Every team needs pitching, and I think Rasner might be on the DL now, after getting hit by a ball up the middle yesterday. I would guess the Red Sox, Mets or Angels.

 

If it looks like the Cubs can make the playoffs, I guarantee they'll give them the green light to go ahead and add a lot of payroll. Don't forget that Pinella has a history with Ichiro.

[beck72]

Long-term, those contracts will catch up with them, especially for Soriano.

 

Short-term, they did what they had to do to bring the momentum back to their side. And I would still be saying that, if we were looking to sweep them this afternoon.

 

They're simply in a much easier division, and the Brewers are the same number of games up on the Cubs that the Tigers and Indians are on us, except we all know how good those Tigers and Indians teams are.

After a team loses 90 games they should work to "bring some momentum back to their side".

 

The sox are trying to win in the AL central, not the NL central. IMO, they are well positioned to do that. The cubs should win w/ the cash they've spent. IMO, they won't.

[Dick Allen]

The 2006 Post ASB sox and the 2007 sox are not having the same problems. For Rogers and us to say they are the same sub .500 team and not much better isn't right. Both had/ have bullpen issues. Yet the sox did pretty well trying to get a better group in without signing guys to ridiculous contracts [MacDougal has to be included as well, as he was added in the 2nd half; And of the free agents, who really would have been better than what the sox have?]. I also expect the bullpen to come around, as they have good stuff with some success. Right now, they are hitting a very rough patch. I have more faith in the sox pen coming around. At least they aren't old, hurt or have weak stuff, like most pens around the league.

 

The 2006 offense still hit well, not as well as in the 1st half. And the 2007 starters are doing very well, which was the biggest reason for the drop off in the 2nd half.

 

If the sox are close around the trade deadline, I'd expect KW to make a splash to improve the team [the sox have some depth that most teams won't part with]. Just get to the playoffs and a team can win. I could see Ichiro brought in to help win now, and as a trial run for 2008. Few other teams will be willing and able to go after Ichiro. The sox are one of them.

I think they are having the same problems. The offense the second half last year wasn't producing many runs and the pitching was horrid. The starters have been much better this year, but the bullpen doesn't appear to have improved and the offense has been anemic. They said they were going to play more "smallball" but really don't have the players to play that way. Pods is one guy, but he's been hurt for a year and a half, and signing him and relying on him to be a big part of your offense is as laughable as the Cubs waiting on Wood and Prior all of these years. Erstad wasn't a bad signing. He was cheap, but the guy isn't an everyday leadoff man at this point. He really isn't even an everyday player. KW needs to show everyone he is the baseball genius he thinks he is and fix the problems on the fly. It will be very difficult.

[whitesoxfan101]

Is under .500 and 4th place in June still too early?